Problem with point defense

[Kurt (OP)]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, or what I've missed. 

I have a game set up with two races on the same planet.  This began as a conventional game, and the two races are still very low tech.  They both have several PDC's with offensive missiles and defensive meson turrets.  One race has just launched a ship, which has sparked open warfare between the two races, and this has revealed a problem.  Or I think it is a problem.

One side launched ten large PDC missiles at the orbiting ship.  The ship is equipped with anti-missile missiles.  Everyone's active sensors are on, and have been since before the missiles were launched.  The PDC's are equipped with sensors that should be able to detect the missiles.  The defending side's meson cannons and AMM launchers are assigned to fire controls with appropriate targeting commands.  Unfortunately, there is not point defense firing.  Instead the missiles hit the ship (or mostly miss, anyway).  No AMM's fire, no meson cannons fire. 

I saved the database before the battle, so I restored it, tried different point defense modes, and tried again with the same results.  I then reset again, and this time moved the survey ship to the planet's moon, 32,000 km's away.  This time when I launched the missiles both the ship's AMM's and the PDC's meson cannons would engage the missiles properly, so I know that they work. 

No matter what I do I can't engage missiles launched from the PDC's at anything in orbit or on the planet.  This implies that they are launched at the end of the five second increment so they can't be engaged on the turn they are launched (obviously), and that they then move during the next five second increment before PD fires.  I don't think it used to be this way, as I remember being able to build and use defenses in games with opposing populations on the same planet. 

Steve - has this changed or am I doing something wrong?  I readily admit I'm probably doing something wrong but darned if I can figure it out. 

Kurt   

[GreatTuna]

IIRC the AM defences can't just prepare for missiles from that close. They need at least 5 seconds margin so AMMs can be launched, PD weapons can be prepared etc. etc.

It worked earlier probably because you were firing ICBMs which have 300 seconds travel time as a penalty for being ICBMs.

[MarcAFK]

I'm pretty sure final defensive fire always used to work though, even if your fire control or the range of the weapons was less than 5 times the incoming missiles speed.
At any event CIWS still work.

[Steve Walmsley]

Detection takes place between movement and combat. If you launch missiles and they arrive within the next movement phase, there is no opportunity for the defender to detect them. In effect, you can't use point defence against missiles launched at you from very close range.

[Kurt (OP)]

Detection takes place between movement and combat. If you launch missiles and they arrive within the next movement phase, there is no opportunity for the defender to detect them. In effect, you can't use point defence against missiles launched at you from very close range.

Okay, so the good news is that I'm doing it right! <G> 

The bad news is that there is no defense possible when two races inhabit the same planet.  I'm going to have to think about this.  This means that Mutual Assured Destruction is the only defense.  I can work with this, but it isn't the concept I started with.  Hmmm...

Kurt 

[MarcAFK]

Does CIWS not work at extreme close range then?
If not, would it at all be possible to change CIWS and final defensive fire to attempt interception anyway? Perhaps at reduced chance depending on how close the target is or something.

[Steve Walmsley]

Okay, so the good news is that I'm doing it right! <G> 

The bad news is that there is no defense possible when two races inhabit the same planet.  I'm going to have to think about this.  This means that Mutual Assured Destruction is the only defense.  I can work with this, but it isn't the concept I started with.  Hmmm...

Kurt

Yes, this is why in Colonial Wars everyone is REALLY trying to avoid a fight in Earth orbit . However, it does give missile ships a chance against really strong point defence - they just need to get close.

[Steve Walmsley]

Does CIWS not work at extreme close range then?
If not, would it at all be possible to change CIWS and final defensive fire to attempt interception anyway? Perhaps at reduced chance depending on how close the target is or something.

CIWS does work without detection. It is completely self-contained and doesn't need any additional sensors. You can put CIWS on freighters that don't have active sensors for example. BTW this is one of the reasons that a lot of NPR warships mount CIWS so they can't be taken completely by surprise facing missile attack. The disadvantage is that it only works to protect the ship mounting it.