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Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM »

Awww hell...found it in the bug report...heck I even found my bug report on the first incident...seems to be a code bug that is causing things to not work due to the change that buoys don't require endurance in 6.10.

Well drat! 
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: March 22, 2020, 11:59:20 AM »

I recommend you search the v6.1 bugs thread for references to mines.  Certainly there are versions of Aurora where mines were majorly bugged.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 22, 2020, 09:09:02 AM »

Ok, here is the new Mk 3 mine...what is the general consensus...will it work?

Code: [Select]
Mk 3 Mine
Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.7623   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 20    Maximum Range vs 1000 ton object (or larger): 370,000 km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 0.385    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  385,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 5.4962
Second Stage: Venom Assault Stage (Batch 4) x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 100,000 km
Overall Endurance: 0 minutes   Overall Range: 0.6m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    1.25x Tritanium   0.8208x Boronide   1.3678x Uridium   2.0576x Gallicite   Fuel x25

Development Cost for Project: 550RP

and the assault stage:

Code: [Select]
Venom Assault Stage (Batch 4)
Missile Size: 3 MSP  (0.15 HS)     Warhead: 5    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 24
Speed: 32000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.6m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.2205   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 60    Maximum Range vs 3000 ton object (or larger): 180,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 3.6601
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 768%   3k km/s 240%   5k km/s 153.6%   10k km/s 76.8%
Materials Required:    1.25x Tritanium   0.132x Boronide   0.2205x Uridium   2.0576x Gallicite   Fuel x25

Development Cost for Project: 366RP

Basically I tried to set things so if it is released (baring against a really small target) it should be able to see it even after the target has moved 40-60k km from point it triggered the mine.  It is mainly intended for Wolvers so they are usually 9000 tonnes or larger.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 21, 2020, 09:38:39 AM »

It ain't compatible with my saved game and I've got waaaaay too much time invested.  So I live with the older version until C# is a bit more developed.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: March 21, 2020, 07:22:47 AM »

Have you tried 7.1?
Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 21, 2020, 01:40:33 AM »

I am left to wonder if this may be either something to do with 6.10 or me getting too cute with the separation distance.   As the Mark III will come soon I'll post up the stats for it here and people can maybe find the error.   It's a tad frustrating I have to admit.
Posted by: Bremen
« on: March 20, 2020, 06:24:54 PM »

I've used actives on a mine and they worked just fine. I'm afraid I have no idea why you're having trouble.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 20, 2020, 02:01:15 PM »

Unfortunately, the enemy ship was like 18k km from a mine and it still didn't launch.  I'm baffled beyond baffled as to why.   But this is the second time my mines never fired.

I'll try passives for the mark III mine and see if that helps.  The only other possibility is that I got too cute about the separation range....but even so I am sure I set it to over 50k Km.
Posted by: Zhatelier
« on: March 20, 2020, 12:21:54 PM »

Quote from: Paul M link=topic=10600. msg119813#msg119813 date=1584721808
Zhatelier what do you mean by "I didn't use the 'Launch missiles at' order in the fleet menu. "  The mines aren't showing up as anything but "missiles in flight" in the combat overview tab.   They certainly aren't in the fleet orders tab.   I deployed them from my minelayers using:  "Waypoint x" then "Move to" followed by"Launch Missiles at" commands.   That resulted in "Move to Waypoint x" and "Launch missiles at Waypoint x. "  I can't see any other way to deploy them.
The way you described is the correct one, I would then perhaps increase the separation range to a bit higher and if need be, spread the mines out a bit further manually.  But you could easily go for around 400k km separation range.  Keep in mind that the second stage won't launch until the enemy is inside that range, if the enemy flies through it, but ends the tick outside it, the stage won't launch.  Ships with jump shock are naturally the easiest targets for mines.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 20, 2020, 11:30:08 AM »

I am still working on the AAR of OP Quarrel...

I am developing the Venom Assault Stage (Batch 4) and after that (8 days from now in-game time) was going to do the Mark III mine with passive sensors but ....now I read that actives will work and now I'm a lot torn.  Maybe though I can fit both on the Mark III and see how that works.

Zhatelier what do you mean by "I didn't use the 'Launch missiles at' order in the fleet menu."  The mines aren't showing up as anything but "missiles in flight" in the combat overview tab.  They certainly aren't in the fleet orders tab.  I deployed them from my minelayers using:  "Waypoint x" then "Move to" followed by"Launch Missiles at" commands.  That resulted in "Move to Waypoint x" and "Launch missiles at Waypoint x."  I can't see any other way to deploy them.

I've also been distracted by HOI IV as I'm trying to figure out if the AI is at a point the game is playable...as it was blind, and stupid up till now and my patience is at an end...as addicted to the game as I am either they fix it so it doesn't bloody well forget about garrisoning things that absolutely need to be garrisoned and to take care of supply lines or well no way it is worth playing as the AI just does attritional warfare and more by luck then anything else accomplishes anything.  Part of it in my feeling is the lack of a proper OOB and 24 units per general...this leads to the near constant unit shuffle...but anyway...it has been distracting me from my AAR.
Posted by: Zhatelier
« on: March 20, 2020, 07:20:58 AM »

Actives on a mine do work (and quite well, I might add), but a mistake I made several times before realizing what was wrong is I didn't use the "Launch missiles at" order in the fleet menu.  Without that the sensors won't launch the second stage even with enemies in the sensor and separation range, as far as I can tell.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: March 19, 2020, 11:33:51 PM »

So, did you ever fix 'em?  :P
Posted by: Paul M
« on: March 08, 2020, 05:20:32 AM »

I'll give a try with the mark III.  I was thinking maybe I got too cute with the separation range to keep the whole field from targeting one ship but even so the target was super close to several clusters of mines and spent 3x5s turns in the field.

I had it in my head the main stage had to be active...well the venom assault stage (batch 3) will get deleted (it is still in the research queue so no loss) and re-done with active sensors...I'm fairly sure it has passives on it but I'll change that.

Thanks Guys.  I'm still confused why active sensors won't work...but that is one for Steve to answer.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: March 08, 2020, 01:55:06 AM »

The example given uses Thermal Passives on the main stage. . .

Good point.  Thinking about it, I can't recall any AARs that specifically use active sensors on the mines (and I know I've never done so -- only passives) so that may be where the problem originates.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: March 08, 2020, 01:00:18 AM »

So I did some (very) light reading on the matter here: http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Missiles#Mines <---- The Wiki Entry on Missiles, Mines are near the bottom.

The example given uses Thermal Passives on the main stage, while the sub-munitions have an active sensor. Maybe try that and see if it works? A blank new game, Spacemaster and some Fast OOB could help you test it if you're in a hurry.