Author Topic: Cold War Comments Thread  (Read 73433 times)

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Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #480 on: October 20, 2021, 01:07:52 PM »
An interesting series of events. From the ending explanation it sounds like there is a distinct possibility that the Doraz end up in a war assisting the Norn, since the Aurarii are not interested in alien contact so there will be little choice of a faction to "work with" if the Doraz wish to expand the Alliance.

Interesting tactic by the Aurarii in using military speed to pursue a faster force, even if they could not catch the Doraz force the possibility to induce breakdowns and eliminate the stragglers is a useful tactic. Maybe Starfire veterans are unsurprised but I found this clever. I have wished many times that Aurora had a similar mechanic, instead of commercial/military engines having strategic/full-speed movement would I think add an interesting mechanic and this encounter shows one reason why.

That could be done in Aurora, I think.  Perhaps if Aurora ships had a "maximum safe speed", instead of just a maximum speed.  Say you could push a task group up to ten to twenty percent over their maximum speed, but you run the risk of damaging your engines the faster you go.  I'd think that'd be doable, within the programming constraints, but only Steve would know that for sure. 

Kurt
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #481 on: October 20, 2021, 01:08:39 PM »
sounds ta ME like the death snots caught some luck.  stead of having to blow up two fleets, they only have to deal with the remaining fraction of one.  and one of their new pets probably has good loot.

 ;D
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #482 on: October 20, 2021, 01:17:01 PM »
Good one Kurt, though the mental image of the slugs on their hover chariots with their eyestalks poking over the rim of the chariot side makes me laugh.  This is a very real case of first contact going side ways.  I'm not sure we have had such in our campaign though I think there was a few very odd ones.

When SA assistant generated a system with two different native races, I thought I'd make it into something interesting rather than just another first contact situation.  In a cold war situation, which is what these two races were in, then an alien race blundering into the system introduces a big instability into what was up till then a relatively stable situation.  After all, even if one side isn't interested in the aliens, they cannot allow the other side to establish contact and maybe gain advanced technology.  Neither can afford to ignore the aliens, or the actions of the other side. 
 

Offline misanthropope

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #483 on: October 20, 2021, 11:12:16 PM »
ive got this slug circus maximus image stuck in my head now, im trying to imagine what should be pulling the chariots.  i think porcupines would be pretty metal- i mean, given a slug's frame of reference for "fast".
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #484 on: October 27, 2021, 09:17:28 PM »
Hooray, information on humanity! Maybe earthlings can course correct if New Dawn gets removed from power.
 

Offline misanthropope

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #485 on: October 28, 2021, 12:49:38 PM »
"excuse me, can you please nuke us to the brink of extinction?  we're overdue but lack the means to do it ourselves." 
 

Offline Black

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #486 on: November 03, 2021, 11:19:46 AM »
It seems that the war between Bjering and Mintek is inevitable. Hopefully D’Bringi will be notified quickly of the situation and will be able to react in support of Bjering. This could very well be end of Mintek with bit of luck. And of course hopefully Colonial Union will not try anything stupid to prevent the growth of the opposition.
 

Offline Migi

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #487 on: November 09, 2021, 06:59:28 AM »
I appreciate the writeup on the ship designs, especially the written descriptions which I can understand  ::)

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While many of the Navy’s officers have staunchly maintained their belief that the battlecruisers are the queen of battle, and that the new superdreadnoughts are too ungainly and slow to be effective on the strategic stage, it is hard to deny comparisons that show that the superdreadnoughts mount twice as many launchers, and have nearly twice as much passive defenses as the battlecruisers, for less than twice the cost.  Regardless of the endless debates between the battlecruiser captains and the superdreadnought captains, the politicians love the huge SD’s and it is clear that the BC’s days as the queen of the fleet are numbered.

Based on the debacle where the Rehorish and D’Bringi out manoeuvred the humans inside their own territory I'd say that the officers are correct, unless the enemy uses even faster ships.

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The Grisha class was their answer, and numerous units were built before the Last War.  Thirty-seven units of this class still exist, all in mothballs where they are likely to stay, being considered too small and limited for current fleet duties.

Can these be fitted with the long range sensors? I'd have thought that small hulls with high speed would be great for giving fleets wide ranging scouting ability, or used to keep watch on jump points or spread around inhabited systems.
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #488 on: November 09, 2021, 09:15:08 AM »
I appreciate the writeup on the ship designs, especially the written descriptions which I can understand  ::)

Quote
While many of the Navy’s officers have staunchly maintained their belief that the battlecruisers are the queen of battle, and that the new superdreadnoughts are too ungainly and slow to be effective on the strategic stage, it is hard to deny comparisons that show that the superdreadnoughts mount twice as many launchers, and have nearly twice as much passive defenses as the battlecruisers, for less than twice the cost.  Regardless of the endless debates between the battlecruiser captains and the superdreadnought captains, the politicians love the huge SD’s and it is clear that the BC’s days as the queen of the fleet are numbered.

Based on the debacle where the Rehorish and D’Bringi out manoeuvred the humans inside their own territory I'd say that the officers are correct, unless the enemy uses even faster ships.

Quote
The Grisha class was their answer, and numerous units were built before the Last War.  Thirty-seven units of this class still exist, all in mothballs where they are likely to stay, being considered too small and limited for current fleet duties.

Can these be fitted with the long range sensors? I'd have thought that small hulls with high speed would be great for giving fleets wide ranging scouting ability, or used to keep watch on jump points or spread around inhabited systems.

Currently, the Colonial Union fields frigate and explorer class scouts with long range scanners.  The explorer class scouts are fast enough to match anything in space and can either close on larger targets, or run from screening ships.  The frigate scouts are armed and armored, and can defend themselves.  This combo worked will for the Colonial Union in the last war, but they haven't yet realized that things have changed.  The D'Bringi have gone big on corvette-carrier-scouts, which are as fast as the CU's explorer-scouts, and faster than its frigate scouts.  Worse, the Alliance is working on F1 fighters, which will be faster than the CU explorer class scouts if loaded with a light weapons load.  That will be a problem if the Alliance and the CU start a new conflict.  The CU is rapidly deploying carriers, but its mainstay carrier is a destroyer-sized CVE design that is slower than the Alliance's CT(V)'s and myopic, as it is optimized to carry fighters and doesn't have long-range scanners. 

The CU's various escort designs could be refitted to make them scouts, but they'd have to either downgrade the weapons mount to a smaller weapon, like a plasma gun, or lose their point defense, which makes them vulnerable to missiles.  For now, the CU Navy prefers to keep the escorts in reserve, with the intent of reactivating them if things are going badly or a critical warp point's defenses need a boost. 

Given the CU's focus on large ships, it is likely that bit by bit, the smaller ships like frigates, corvettes, and escorts, are going to be phased out over time in favor of destroyers and light cruisers. 

Kurt
 
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Offline TheTalkingMeowth

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #489 on: November 11, 2021, 10:27:26 AM »
Ooh, the D'Bringi's mysterious benefactors seem to have found a new catspaw.
 

Offline StarshipCactus

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #490 on: November 11, 2021, 04:48:10 PM »
Ooh, the D'Bringi's mysterious benefactors seem to have found a new catspaw.

I had forgotten about those guys.
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #491 on: November 12, 2021, 09:26:11 AM »
Battlecruisers are just too small after TL6 or TL7 and as the necessary electronics increases this is even more true.  The Shanirians are fielding BBA's to get a speed 6 ship with sufficient space to mount the electronics a ship needs.  For certain tasks BC are ok:  escorts for carriers or battleline escorts or command ships for cruiser datagroups.  Starslayer made some with commercial engines that worked well as patrol ships because they mounted more weapons than smaller ships.   But by the time you can field a SD a BC is just too small.  At that point they become "show of force" ships, which indicate a certain degree of seriousness.  But BCs have 0 chance of stopping a SD led WP assault or halting them in mid space unless they seriously outnumber them.  The stuff Webber wrote in In Death Ground about BCs was not realistic with 3rdR's rule set.  And once you have to face defended WPs nothing smaller than a BB is a viable assault ship (even a CV is dangerously weak) and if you go for speed 6 assault ships CAs are better as they are easier to replace and cost a lot less but they are still on the light side.   But as (especially) Gunboat killers BC are truly terrifyingly effective, with Wa they can launch broadsides of 36+ sprint missiles per datagroup...and that hurts.  In our game they are still valuable as they are the smallest hull that can mount capital weapons.  But 15xRc in 3 BCs compared to 30xRc in 3 SDs...   Honestly a BBA or better a SDA is a "battle" cruiser: a 45 HS CL is a light, a 60 HS CA is a regular and 80 HS BC is a heavy cruiser.

One change you might want to consider Kurt is giving Mi(x) the capabilities of Xr, it is one of our house rules.  It is rather crazy that the higher tech level version incorporates it and is also half the size of Mi(x).  This saves at least some space for command ships once command datalink shows up.  I frankly think that a lot of the electronics are seriously over sized.  These should be add ons that you buy into your hull or not, they should cost money not space...most of them are nothing more than a computer.  This would keep the smaller hulls viable as tech level goes up...as it is now at TL10+ even DDs are barely viable just from electronics space requirements...ignoring the increase of weapon damage.
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #492 on: November 12, 2021, 04:46:10 PM »
Battlecruisers are just too small after TL6 or TL7 and as the necessary electronics increases this is even more true.  The Shanirians are fielding BBA's to get a speed 6 ship with sufficient space to mount the electronics a ship needs.  For certain tasks BC are ok:  escorts for carriers or battleline escorts or command ships for cruiser datagroups.  Starslayer made some with commercial engines that worked well as patrol ships because they mounted more weapons than smaller ships.   But by the time you can field a SD a BC is just too small.  At that point they become "show of force" ships, which indicate a certain degree of seriousness.  But BCs have 0 chance of stopping a SD led WP assault or halting them in mid space unless they seriously outnumber them.  The stuff Webber wrote in In Death Ground about BCs was not realistic with 3rdR's rule set.  And once you have to face defended WPs nothing smaller than a BB is a viable assault ship (even a CV is dangerously weak) and if you go for speed 6 assault ships CAs are better as they are easier to replace and cost a lot less but they are still on the light side.   But as (especially) Gunboat killers BC are truly terrifyingly effective, with Wa they can launch broadsides of 36+ sprint missiles per datagroup...and that hurts.  In our game they are still valuable as they are the smallest hull that can mount capital weapons.  But 15xRc in 3 BCs compared to 30xRc in 3 SDs...   Honestly a BBA or better a SDA is a "battle" cruiser: a 45 HS CL is a light, a 60 HS CA is a regular and 80 HS BC is a heavy cruiser.

One change you might want to consider Kurt is giving Mi(x) the capabilities of Xr, it is one of our house rules.  It is rather crazy that the higher tech level version incorporates it and is also half the size of Mi(x).  This saves at least some space for command ships once command datalink shows up.  I frankly think that a lot of the electronics are seriously over sized.  These should be add ons that you buy into your hull or not, they should cost money not space...most of them are nothing more than a computer.  This would keep the smaller hulls viable as tech level goes up...as it is now at TL10+ even DDs are barely viable just from electronics space requirements...ignoring the increase of weapon damage.

This is the first campaign I've had where battlecruisers lasted as the primary battle line component for so many races.  Usually my races move pretty rapidly into SD's, as soon as possible.  I recently realized that it's because of the limited resources in this campaign, the slower tech advance, and the lower build speeds.  It is going to take the Alliance seventeen months to prototype an SD, and its cost is significant.  However, the Alliance is currently developing HT-9 systems, and the Mi-x system, anti-matter warheads, and SBM's will put a lot of pressure on the Alliance Navy to begin taking larger hulls more seriously.  The combination of anti-matter warheads and longer ranged missiles, coupled with improved fire control, will make missile-equipped SD's and other larger hulls more attractive, although expensive.  The D'Bringi will try to hold on to beam armed BC's, perhaps equipped with spinal force beams, but the missile proponents will have a good argument with these advances. 

Kurt

 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #493 on: November 14, 2021, 08:40:04 PM »
Poor Chirq! Pacifist societies always end up like this in 4x games, for some unfathomable reason...  :P
 

Offline Migi

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #494 on: November 15, 2021, 07:39:46 AM »
Have the D'Bringi forgotten about their long ago benefactors or is it a matter of ongoing concern and investigation for them?
I assume they didn't tell anyone else in the Alliance about them?

The latest action has gone low tech, it feels a bit like the old days of the Soviets vs the Coalition.

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The Khozuni ships efficiently hunted down and killed the sensor and comms buoys at the warp point and then set out for the inner system.
Don't the sensor and comms buoys have some way of detecting the attacking ships?

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Khozuni Imperial Guard
Using technology transferred from their benefactors, the Khozuni fielded this class.  The science instruments were thrown into the design at the last minute to make the class a hybrid warship-explorer design, but as used, the science instruments were little more than expensive armor for the ship. 
I kind of understand why you would want a hybrid design if you have a limited number of hulls, but the Khozun were given a bunch of shipyards, so they can just build dedicated explorer ships, rather than making their warships more expensive. On the other hand the Khozuni Raider seems to be more cost effective than the Chriq Woden (it is 33% larger but only costs 23% more) so they are doing something right.