Author Topic: Update on Progress  (Read 254686 times)

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Offline Scandinavian

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #120 on: November 27, 2018, 09:22:46 PM »
So, this is a note to explain why the boiling point of water vapour in the gases table is now 245K (about -28C) so it lines up nicely with when the hydrosphere changes from liquid to frozen.
Melting point, surely? The boiling point should be 373 K.

(Well, triple point, anyway. There's a whole rabbit hole one could go down with pressure, temperature, state changes, greenhouse effect feedbacks, etc. But if we're going to increase the level of background detail of the simulation, then the civilian economy should probably get some love before moving into proper climatology.)
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #121 on: November 28, 2018, 03:01:16 AM »
So, this is a note to explain why the boiling point of water vapour in the gases table is now 245K (about -28C) so it lines up nicely with when the hydrosphere changes from liquid to frozen.
Melting point, surely? The boiling point should be 373 K.

(Well, triple point, anyway. There's a whole rabbit hole one could go down with pressure, temperature, state changes, greenhouse effect feedbacks, etc. But if we're going to increase the level of background detail of the simulation, then the civilian economy should probably get some love before moving into proper climatology.)

The boiling point should be 373K, but as I am using the table (for this particular gas) to deal with evaporation, I am using 245k instead. Although theoretically you can have water vapour in the atmosphere at even colder temperatures. Anyway, the note was to explain why that value was in the table so I don't get asked regularly why I have the boiling point of water at 245K :)
 

Offline roug

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #122 on: November 29, 2018, 01:51:20 AM »
Quote from: Steve Walmsley link=topic=10096.  msg111173#msg111173 date=1543258440
The test campaign has been going well.   It is now the end of 2415 and all five races have established multiple colonies, including populated, mining and civilian.   All the various movement and unload orders are functioning as they should and civilian trade is working.   Construction orders, including space stations, are working as intended.   One race has built a 2.  5m ton orbital habitat that can house a million colonists and is towing it to Europa.   Another has three fuel harvesters in orbit of Saturn.   All the races are concentrating on mining, industry and have started research jump technologies.   They have all built a large number of ground forces, with very detailed OOBs in some cases. 

This is a sort of good news/bad news update as I have decided to end that campaign and start a new one.   I want to get started on testing the AI (now that I can rely on base functionality) and to concentrate on that I don't really want the distraction of five player races.   So I am starting a campaign with a single conventional player race, a Trans-Newtonian NPR and Precursors active.   That will allow me to concentrate on monitoring what the AI is doing, while keeping an interest on the player side.   It should also be very challenging to start in that situation, which will force me to be creative. 


How is the performance with everything going on?
Nwm there are no AI in the game!
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #123 on: November 29, 2018, 02:55:42 AM »
Quote from: Steve Walmsley link=topic=10096.  msg111173#msg111173 date=1543258440
The test campaign has been going well.   It is now the end of 2415 and all five races have established multiple colonies, including populated, mining and civilian.   All the various movement and unload orders are functioning as they should and civilian trade is working.   Construction orders, including space stations, are working as intended.   One race has built a 2.  5m ton orbital habitat that can house a million colonists and is towing it to Europa.   Another has three fuel harvesters in orbit of Saturn.   All the races are concentrating on mining, industry and have started research jump technologies.   They have all built a large number of ground forces, with very detailed OOBs in some cases. 

This is a sort of good news/bad news update as I have decided to end that campaign and start a new one.   I want to get started on testing the AI (now that I can rely on base functionality) and to concentrate on that I don't really want the distraction of five player races.   So I am starting a campaign with a single conventional player race, a Trans-Newtonian NPR and Precursors active.   That will allow me to concentrate on monitoring what the AI is doing, while keeping an interest on the player side.   It should also be very challenging to start in that situation, which will force me to be creative. 


How is the performance with everything going on?
Nwm there are no AI in the game!

Performance is fine. Even construction phases are less than a second to process.
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #124 on: December 02, 2018, 04:02:18 PM »
A quick update on the new C# test campaign. I have one player race, starting at conventional with one billion pop, and a single NPR, starting with TN Tech. I am almost at the end of the first year. The player race did badly on scientists and won't research TN tech for about another five months.

The NPR rolled well and has a larger population. Starting forces included warships, orbital defence bases, survey ships, scouts, harvesters, orbital miners, terraformers, troop transports, salvage ships, jump point stabilisation ships (construction ships in VB6) and tankers. Ground forces included infantry and armour regiments, brigade HQ formations, planetary defences with both offensive and PD STO weapons, geological survey expeditions and xenoarchaeological expeditions.

So far, the NPR has:
  • Explored two new systems with both geological and gravitational survey ships.
  • Built jump gates into those systems.
  • Established colonies in one of the new systems at a small ruin and at a mining site that has ground survey potential.
  • Used troop transports to move a xenoarchaeological expedition and a geological expedition respectively to those two colonies
  • Carried out the ground survey.
  • Moved terraformers into the system and begun to terraform the world with the ruin.
  • Deployed harvesters to appropriate gas giants (including moving them when a better option appeared).
  • Used the tankers to move fuel from the harvesters to the capital
  • Refuelled survey ships when they had no immediate tasks
  • Started upgrading all shipyards
  • Started building ships in all those shipyards
  • Built Mines with construction factories
  • Produced missiles based on the requirements of the ships, taking account of the existing stockpiles
  • Started building new ground forces based on the requirements of the existing populations
  • Selected the next group of research tasks and begun that research
Several of the above tasks required different combinations of Race, System, Fleet, Ship and Population AIs.

No combat yet but the basic functioning of the economy is good so far. I've fixed plenty of bugs and I suspect there are many more to come as the situation becomes more complex.

Offline jonw

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2018, 04:14:12 PM »
Woo! Sounds awesome. C# updates are better than opening my advent calendar. Definitely an early christmas present :p
 

Offline Hazard

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2018, 04:17:56 PM »
Well, that sounds excellent.

No AAR/dissection of the previous test campaign's ground combat system though?

Would've been nice if that worked as intended.
 

Offline JustAnotherDude

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #127 on: December 02, 2018, 04:54:39 PM »
I am the embodiment of hype right now. My body is moving between dimensions right now because this material universe is insufficient to contain the sheer excitement I'm experiencing. God himself trembles before my hype.

(Also, could you possible post some examples of C# NPR designs? I believe that you said there were improvements made in that area, too, though I could be wrong)
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2018, 05:06:16 PM »
Well, that sounds excellent.

No AAR/dissection of the previous test campaign's ground combat system though?

Would've been nice if that worked as intended.

The previous game is still in the main database, so I will conduct that test at some point. Just concentrating on AI at the moment.
 
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Offline Kurt

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2018, 05:51:20 PM »
A quick update on the new C# test campaign. I have one player race, starting at conventional with one billion pop, and a single NPR, starting with TN Tech. I am almost at the end of the first year. The player race did badly on scientists and won't research TN tech for about another five months.

The NPR rolled well and has a larger population. Starting forces included warships, orbital defence bases, survey ships, scouts, harvesters, orbital miners, terraformers, troop transports, salvage ships, jump point stabilisation ships (construction ships in VB6) and tankers. Ground forces included infantry and armour regiments, brigade HQ formations, planetary defences with both offensive and PD STO weapons, geological survey expeditions and xenoarchaeological expeditions.

So far, the NPR has:
  • Explored two new systems with both geological and gravitational survey ships.
  • Built jump gates into those systems.
  • Established colonies in one of the new systems at a small ruin and at a mining site that has ground survey potential.
  • Used troop transports to move a xenoarchaeological expedition and a geological expedition respectively to those two colonies
  • Carried out the ground survey.
  • Moved terraformers into the system and begun to terraform the world with the ruin.
  • Deployed harvesters to appropriate gas giants (including moving them when a better option appeared).
  • Used the tankers to move fuel from the harvesters to the capital
  • Refuelled survey ships when they had no immediate tasks
  • Started upgrading all shipyards
  • Started building ships in all those shipyards
  • Built Mines with construction factories
  • Produced missiles based on the requirements of the ships, taking account of the existing stockpiles
  • Started building new ground forces based on the requirements of the existing populations
  • Selected the next group of research tasks and begun that research
Several of the above tasks required different combinations of Race, System, Fleet, Ship and Population AIs.

No combat yet but the basic functioning of the economy is good so far. I've fixed plenty of bugs and I suspect there are many more to come as the situation becomes more complex.

That is seriously impressive Steve!  Keep up the good work!

Kurt
 

Offline Kristover

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2018, 08:26:01 PM »
Extremely excited to play this when it is ready.  Steve, given that the AI is identifying and using troop transports to move expeditions (i.e. ground troops) to other systems, does that mean we will be seeing NPR initiated ground invasions?  I know that is more complex - how does the AI know the right force mix to send?  Can it successfully assign escorts to troop transports? - but that would give reasons to garrison combined arms formations on worlds.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #131 on: December 03, 2018, 04:05:29 AM »
Extremely excited to play this when it is ready.  Steve, given that the AI is identifying and using troop transports to move expeditions (i.e. ground troops) to other systems, does that mean we will be seeing NPR initiated ground invasions?  I know that is more complex - how does the AI know the right force mix to send?  Can it successfully assign escorts to troop transports? - but that would give reasons to garrison combined arms formations on worlds.

The AI has a concept of 'operational group', which is a mix of capabilities required for a specific role. Different AI design themes have different types and compositions for operational groups but there are common roles, such as Battle Fleet, Destroyer Squadron, Harvester Group, Troop Transport, etc. (about 20 so far and growing). The operational groups always have a 'Key Element', which is the ship type that is mandatory for the specific role, plus a number of optional types.

For example, a Battle Fleet may compromise a specific number of missile cruisers as a key element with optional slots for AMM escorts, beam escorts, beam warships, anti-fighter and anti-FAC destroyers, etc., while Troop Transport will include the actual transports as the key element, plus optional escorts. Each operational group is a single fleet, which avoids all of the VB6 issues with escorts not staying close to capital ships. This means you may encounter NPR harvesters, terraformers, mining ships, etc. with attached escorts, depending on the design theme.

The NPR starts with a number of intact operational groups with all slots filled. As new ships are built they are assigned to existing operational groups with empty slots or, if they have a key element role, become the core of a new operational group.

When the Race AI is deploying fleets around its territory, it knows which operational groups are suitable for the task. For example, when it identified a small ruin, the AI looked for an available Xenoarchaeological expedition (i.e. not already assigned to a ruin) and for a troop transport operational group that had the capacity and could make the run (depending on jump gates). For exploring jump points, the AI might choose an available scout OG or a gravitational survey OG. The AI knows what existing groups are doing so it will choose one without a current task, although in some circumstances the existing tasks will be overridden, such as when hostile forces are identified.

I haven't coded ground invasions yet, but I plan to add that. The AI already has a lot of code for deploying ground forces based on the value of its populations (or ruins or ground survey sites). It can assess which forces are necessary where they are, which forces are available to move and what forces are required in various locations, taking into account forces already in transit. I will need to add hostile populations as a potential destination and add the forces required (based on observation of defences).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 04:12:47 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline Hazard

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #132 on: December 03, 2018, 06:43:13 AM »
The previous game is still in the main database, so I will conduct that test at some point. Just concentrating on AI at the moment.

Regarding this.

Given the fact there's 5 factions involved, you could run it multiple times, in 4vs1, 3vs2 and free for all. It'd test the ally system at the same time and IIRC you can just simply duplicate the database for reruns.

It'll take more time of course.
 

Offline Kristover

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #133 on: December 03, 2018, 08:12:09 PM »
Steve, thanks for the answer on the ground invasion piece and delighted by the 'battle group' suggestion.  Sounds like a pretty good solution.  One possible suggestion - BTW, I'm utterly ignorant on coding so it is strictly a game play suggestion - perhaps there should be an 'Invasion' battle group that is separate and distinct from the 'Troop Transport' one.  An Invasion is a major undertaking, potentially involving significant fleet combat, air/space engagements, and then a subsequent blockade to combat is resolved - it will be a contested affair.  A simple troop transport mission could be for uncontested expeditions and internal reassignments but I think an Invasion TF might have to be something different.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2018, 02:58:02 AM »
Steve, thanks for the answer on the ground invasion piece and delighted by the 'battle group' suggestion.  Sounds like a pretty good solution.  One possible suggestion - BTW, I'm utterly ignorant on coding so it is strictly a game play suggestion - perhaps there should be an 'Invasion' battle group that is separate and distinct from the 'Troop Transport' one.  An Invasion is a major undertaking, potentially involving significant fleet combat, air/space engagements, and then a subsequent blockade to combat is resolved - it will be a contested affair.  A simple troop transport mission could be for uncontested expeditions and internal reassignments but I think an Invasion TF might have to be something different.

The current NPR transports are commercial. When I add the invasion code I will add an assault transport group, plus there will be an AI decision regarding likely opposition and chance of success before any invasion is launched.