Author Topic: Update on Progress  (Read 252754 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #645 on: April 02, 2020, 12:28:39 PM »
I've rewritten the Diplomacy Part 3 post to change some of the algorithm for claiming systems from NPRs. I hope this makes it cleaner and clearer.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg118362#msg118362
 

Offline Alsadius

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #646 on: April 02, 2020, 02:15:56 PM »
I've rewritten the Diplomacy Part 3 post to change some of the algorithm for claiming systems from NPRs. I hope this makes it cleaner and clearer.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg118362#msg118362

One typo in that edited post:

Population Factor
This is equal to Total EM Signature of Player Populations in System / Total EM Signature of Player Populations in System. However, this factor can never be higher than the cube root of (Total EM Signature of Player Populations in System / 100). For example, if the player had 1000 EM Signature and the NPR has 200 EM Signature, the factor would be 2.15 (because the cube root of (1000/100) is lower than (1000 / 200). This is to limit the advantage when the populations are relatively small or the NPR has no populations. Population Factor is the best ’peaceful option’ as demonstrating a large population is much more likely to achieve a decision in your favour.


One of the two bolded bits should probably read "NPR Populations".

Otherwise, this looks like a nice clear write-up for a fairly complex set of interactions.

And as others have said, take the time you need. Just remember that you'll probably wind up wanting to tweak it later, so don't worry if you go with the "good enough for now" solution. You're still creating more realistic diplomacy than some big-name games even with the "simple" options, so you don't have to complicate it too much.
 
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Offline Tyrell

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #647 on: April 02, 2020, 02:38:31 PM »
Hello there,
I'm new here and just want to voice my opinion on the topic of: to release or not to release.   

I know (since I am kind of myself) that programmers by themselves just never think their software is 'finished', as they know it could be much better with just a little more effort - and they know it's littered with bugs (since every piece of software more or less is).  And if it wasn't for pressure from the marketing-department, some software would literally never have seen daylight.   

In the case of Aurora, I'd say, if it's only about diplomacy - I could live with some bugs there and thus have the game (call it alpha) sooner in times of curfew and all.  Really running out of stuff to do here .  .  . 

regards, Tyrell
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 03:47:35 PM by Tyrell »
Do - or do not. There is no 'try'.
 

Offline Profugo Barbatus

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #648 on: April 02, 2020, 02:56:00 PM »
The problem is that diplomacy bugs *could* be gamebreakers still. If there is a bug or miscalculation that causes the AI to react wildly inappropriately to a situation, like glassing all your worlds because a diplomacy ship turned on active sensors, or ignoring the player while they fired missiles into their shipyards, because they got a ridiculous opinion boost from the player yielding a system that was so low value that it underflowed or something stupid like that.

Better to just test it out. Mount and Blade: Bannerlords released into early access on monday, if you want a playable but buggy experience, thats where it is right now :P
 
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Offline Gimlie

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #649 on: April 02, 2020, 04:28:18 PM »
Diplomacy is one of the major components of any 4x game - I think we should be glad that Steve is making sure it's mostly functional before release.  Sure, the internal management of your empire is a big part of the game but the real fun comes in when you're forced to interact with your fellow sentient empires.  We wouldn't want the game to break as soon as we start talking with an NPR, right?

I don't know about you guys, but I can wait a little while longer if it means that the AI will have something resembling a functional decision making process.  Although I totally understand wanting to get your hands on the C# release as early as possible, especially given the current circumstances  :)
 
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Offline Kristover

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #650 on: April 02, 2020, 04:33:24 PM »
The problem is that diplomacy bugs *could* be gamebreakers still. If there is a bug or miscalculation that causes the AI to react wildly inappropriately to a situation, like glassing all your worlds because a diplomacy ship turned on active sensors, or ignoring the player while they fired missiles into their shipyards, because they got a ridiculous opinion boost from the player yielding a system that was so low value that it underflowed or something stupid like that.

Better to just test it out. Mount and Blade: Bannerlords released into early access on monday, if you want a playable but buggy experience, thats where it is right now :P

Bannerlords is a hot mess - can see where it would be fun but my opinion is it wasn't ready for even late early access.  But I do agree with you, Steve should only release when he is satisfied with the stability and integrity of the current diplomacy set.  Given how much time I invest in a single playthrough and the fact that anything that touches DB means you have to start over, I rather wait for the little bit Steve says he requires rather than rush and have to restart because of a major bug.  I mean, come on, we are on the home stretch here!  Everyone stay in formation!
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #651 on: April 02, 2020, 04:54:59 PM »
One of the two bolded bits should probably read "NPR Populations".

Thanks for that spot. I've edited it.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #652 on: April 02, 2020, 05:04:08 PM »
But I do agree with you, Steve should only release when he is satisfied with the stability and integrity of the current diplomacy set.  Given how much time I invest in a single playthrough and the fact that anything that touches DB means you have to start over, I rather wait for the little bit Steve says he requires rather than rush and have to restart because of a major bug.  I mean, come on, we are on the home stretch here!  Everyone stay in formation!

I'm still running into bugs that would compromise the game within Diplomacy or lead to unpredictable results. For example, I realised today I forgot to save the NPR acceptance of player control to disk, so when the game restarted the NPR forgot about accepting that control. That would have caused some confusion if released :)

It's a complex area and I want to make every piece of code within it has executed at least once. I am slowly getting there though :)

Offline RavenStormcaller

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #653 on: April 02, 2020, 09:53:55 PM »
I personally don't care how long it takes to get released because I want it to be playable so. . .  Keep going Steve I loved VB6 Aurora.  the only sad part was I couldn't resize the screens to fit my laptop screen.  I'm pretty sure I will love C#.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #654 on: April 03, 2020, 03:33:35 AM »
I've been checking the NPRs to see why no one has claimed any systems yet.

Two reasons:
1) Alpha Centauri is an incredibly useful system. Many asteroids for mining and two mineral-rich planets, one of which was terraformed by me and the second is being terraformed by NPRs. It is also next to the joint home system, which means no claims.
2) Three of the NPRs are low grav, which means the non-AC mining and colonising effort is directed at a lot of asteroids that lie within their acceptable grav range, which means many small populations in several systems, rather than building up one or two systems.

If they haven't started claiming things soon, I may intervene in their orders :)
 
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Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #655 on: April 03, 2020, 05:12:55 AM »
So it's starting to sound like a weekend release is no longer likely. That's cool if that's the case. I ask only because if it is going to relesse, I plan to tell a bunch of people to screw off and leave me alone so I can play. Just trying to schedule my weekend and see if I'll have an excuse to shirk responsibilities.
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #656 on: April 03, 2020, 07:05:26 AM »
We won't know until we know.

My advice is not to plan on anything until you have C# Aurora in your hands.
 
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Offline Inglonias

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #657 on: April 03, 2020, 07:41:37 AM »
All I can offer are the two standard contradictory requests:

1. Take all the time you need to make sure this game is as good as it can be.
2. I want the game to come out yesterday because dear god am I hyped.

 ;)
 
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Offline Frick

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #658 on: April 03, 2020, 10:03:50 AM »
So it's starting to sound like a weekend release is no longer likely. That's cool if that's the case. I ask only because if it is going to relesse, I plan to tell a bunch of people to screw off and leave me alone so I can play. Just trying to schedule my weekend and see if I'll have an excuse to shirk responsibilities.

I've used that excuse for several years now.
 

Offline NightlinerSGS

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #659 on: April 03, 2020, 01:18:30 PM »
Quote from: Inglonias link=topic=10096. msg120316#msg120316 date=1585917697
All I can offer are the two standard contradictory requests:

1.  Take all the time you need to make sure this game is as good as it can be.
2.  I want the game to come out yesterday because dear god am I hyped.

 ;)

That's also me right now.  :P