C# Aurora Changes Discussion

[Steve Walmsley]

The new independence/rebellion possibilities look amazing.

Given that this spawns a new race that's a copy of the old race, if a player or NPR resubjugates a colony he will now have two (identical) races in his empire, and in order to move 'original race' colonists back to the recently resubjugated body will have to start a new colony, correct?

It seems useful to have a system of re-identification of the two races so problems can be avoided in the long run. Probably only after the resubjugated colony reaches regular imperial population status, and probably only if the two races are actually mechanically identical would be best.

I mentioned something similar about communications in the suggestions page.  I really like your idea of re-identification - I think it would be hard to code though given the movement of populations around the Empire which would inevitably happen.  I personally would like to see the racial modifiers (xenophobia, expansionism, etc - but same environmental tolerances) change to reflect the new colonies's ideology that made them different and want to rebel in the first place and if that happens, reintegration as the original race might not be possible.

Xenophobia, etc. are at the species level, not race (empire) level. In fact, I should probably have taken the opportunity to rename Race as Empire in C#

Race Xenophobia is a weighted average of all species xenophobia  in the Empire.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Will we be able to decide if the new independent colony can be managed by the player or spawned as an NPR?

I guess that if you run a multi-faction campaign you might still want to control the new independent colony yourself, in some instances you might want it to be under AI control.

[Steve Walmsley]

Will we be able to decide if the new independent colony can be managed by the player or spawned as an NPR?

I guess that if you run a multi-faction campaign you might still want to control the new independent colony yourself, in some instances you might want it to be under AI control.

Yes, you can do both.

[Jovus]

This may be too much of an ask at present, but I would dearly love if a colony's mineral, industrial and potential naval situation would influence likelihood of rebellion.

Even better, if several colonies relatively nearby one another (say, within two systems? or some other such limit) both run the risk of rebellion, maybe they would have a chance to pool their resources for this calculation and both end up as part of the same rebel empire. "I have neutronium and duranium, you have gallicite and shipyards. Separately we would be crushed, but together we could stand up to the tyrant!"

[LoSboccacc]

> spawned as an NPR?

gundam campaign here we come

[Steve Walmsley]

This may be too much of an ask at present, but I would dearly love if a colony's mineral, industrial and potential naval situation would influence likelihood of rebellion.

Even better, if several colonies relatively nearby one another (say, within two systems? or some other such limit) both run the risk of rebellion, maybe they would have a chance to pool their resources for this calculation and both end up as part of the same rebel empire. "I have neutronium and duranium, you have gallicite and shipyards. Separately we would be crushed, but together we could stand up to the tyrant!"

I will definitely look at the idea of rebellion spreading or the idea that multiple colonies could rebel together (including perhaps local civilian mining colonies), but probably not the mineral/industrial element. Historically, rebellion or revolts are often not based on whether the rebels believe they can create an economically sustainable nation, but rather a reaction to an intolerable situation without necessarily having a long-term plan.

[Kiruth]

Regarding the Independece rules what would be the diplomatic  stance of the new empire? It will be acquired from the old race as everything else (eh.  the old race is at war with an NPR, so the new one will be as well) or it will be more nuanced?

Also I expect very different relation between an ex colony and the "main" empire that has granted Independence (maybe based on unrest at the time of Indipendece) versus a colony that has declared Independence through rebellion. 

[vorpal+5]

There is a reference to ground units being given to the independent colony. I guess that's for a volunteer secession and not a rebellion? That would feel unfair to lose your garrisoning units if the population revolts.

But then if it revolts without arming instantly troops, the rebellions will be squashed rapidly. So I guess there is a part missing here, will a rebellion generates troops hostile to the occupying power?

[Steve Walmsley]

There is a reference to ground units being given to the independent colony. I guess that's for a volunteer secession and not a rebellion? That would feel unfair to lose your garrisoning units if the population revolts.

But then if it revolts without arming instantly troops, the rebellions will be squashed rapidly. So I guess there is a part missing here, will a rebellion generates troops hostile to the occupying power?

Yes, there will be insurgents involved. I'll cover rebellions in the next post.

[Hazard]

There is a reference to ground units being given to the independent colony. I guess that's for a volunteer secession and not a rebellion? That would feel unfair to lose your garrisoning units if the population revolts.

But then if it revolts without arming instantly troops, the rebellions will be squashed rapidly. So I guess there is a part missing here, will a rebellion generates troops hostile to the occupying power?

Historically, revolts that failed to acquire troops themselves were crushed, and it was very common for revolts that weren't crushed in a week or two to have either acquired weapons for their own, or managed to convince at least part of the local garrison to take their side. And often both.

[Kristover]

There is a reference to ground units being given to the independent colony. I guess that's for a volunteer secession and not a rebellion? That would feel unfair to lose your garrisoning units if the population revolts.

But then if it revolts without arming instantly troops, the rebellions will be squashed rapidly. So I guess there is a part missing here, will a rebellion generates troops hostile to the occupying power?

Historically, revolts that failed to acquire troops themselves were crushed, and it was very common for revolts that weren't crushed in a week or two to have either acquired weapons for their own, or managed to convince at least part of the local garrison to take their side. And often both.

Yeah, not untrue but much less true in the modern era.  Ancient armies weren’t paid (they plundered) and typically didn’t have a unifying subordinate interest to the state.  I suspect Aurora armies would be professional armies in the 21st century sense who might quit the field but aren’t going to turn en masse and give up their weapons and equipment to rebels.  Of course, this is all RP dependent on what your flavor is....

[Tikigod]

The title of the new race will be based on the name of the newly-independent population.

This is purely a flavour preference, but in the cases of natural gained independence (like rebellion) is there any chance the newly found race (Empire) generates a names for itself based on a combination of their assigned racial naming convention and main source that drove the push for independence?

So there a colony that rebels with the main reason for dissatisfaction being lack of military protection might name itself something like "<Racial Flavour name> Militia Force".

Whilst a colony that rebels with the main reason for dissatisfaction being overpopulation or living conditions name itself something like "<Racial Flavour name> People's Front".


Whilst not something I'd expect in the base files, maybe even having identifiers in the naming convention that allows for manually populating specific flavour variants for naming lists would be pretty interesting to allow custom naming entries to come up with some cool variants.

[Steve Walmsley]

Maybe they should all be based on different variations of the People's Front of Judea

[Garfunkel]

As long as we can rename them, when under player control, it's all good.

[Tikigod]

As long as we can rename them, when under player control, it's all good.

Personally I'd love to see colonies rebel and then make sure I release all control of them and let them become their own super power over time, which is why it would be cool for flavour reasons if break away colonies had names that reflected their origins in some way.

Edit: Without having to micromanage every occurrence through SM or similar I mean. I am more than happy to spend a hour or more populating naming lists if those names can then be seeded into new independent colonies across each campaign I have going, but the idea of dropping everything when playing anytime a colony goes independent to rename them would get annoying pretty quickly.