Ship Boarding Squad Design

[liveware (OP)]

I'm working on developing new boarding units to fit in my 250 ton boarding modules. My current unit and formation designs are below:

Code: [Select]

Boarding Platoon
Transport Size: 250 tons
Build Cost: 1,285.4 BP
1x Light Command Mech
2x Light Supply Mech
2x Light Pulse Cannon Mech
5x Light Pulse Rifle Mech
20x Light Automatic Rifle Mech
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Light Command Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 98.88     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 12.4     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 1,000

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.8   
Development Cost  4,944
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Light Automatic Rifle Mech
Transport Size (tons) 6     Cost 29.66     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 3.7     Resupply Cost 1.3
Improved Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 15      Damage 12

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.24   
Development Cost  1,483
#############################
Light Pulse Rifle Mech
Transport Size (tons) 12     Cost 59.33     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 7.4     Resupply Cost 6
Crew-Served Anti-Personnel:      Shots 6      Penetration 12      Damage 12

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.48   
Development Cost  2,966
#############################
Light Pulse Cannon Mech
Transport Size (tons) 20     Cost 98.88     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 12.4     Resupply Cost 9
Heavy Crew-Served Anti-Personnel:      Shots 6      Penetration 18      Damage 12

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.8   
Development Cost  4,944
#############################
Light Supply Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 49.44     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 6.2     Resupply Cost 0
Logistics Module - Small:      Ground Supply Points 100

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.4   
Development Cost  2,472

What I am interested in figuring out is how effective my boarding squad will be when trying to take over a hostile ship. My assumption is that each of the target ship's crew will count as a single infantry (armed with light personnel weapons?) and minimal armor. Based on that, I have worked out that my boarding platoon shown above should be able to kill at most 524 enemy crew per round of combat. This calculation is based on my assumption that all shots fired hit and kill their targets, which is certainly an over estimate. However, I am looking for the maximum number of enemy crew that could reasonably be defeated, and I think this number is accurate.

I am wonder what others think about my boarding platoon setup. Does anyone have any experience with boarding combat that could validate my calculations?

[Ulzgoroth]

Relevant info here.

Crew count as infantry with light personal weapons and substandard armor equaling only half the racial armor modifier.

Which means that unless you're very out-teched, every hit should kill the target. However, the base ground combat chance to hit is 20% and defenders in a boarding action are fortified. So best-case is probably 1 in 10 shots hits.

I think this means CAP is the most destructive per ton, though obviously it has lousy damage absorption. HCAP should almost certainly be overkill unless the enemy has their own marines aboard...as should IPW and arguably even PW. On the other hand, as much armor as you can get is great.


(Also, obviously, you could make much much cheaper units that work just as well in boarding combat by removing all those terrain capabilities that aren't doing anything for you.)

[liveware (OP)]

Good points all around. After playing around with unit designs, ranks, and formations for most of the morning, I have come up with some significantly different units and formations. I'm not quite done yet but will post the revised formations when I'm done.

I do also think you're right about CAP being most 'kills' per ton, though I am thinking that there is a trade-off between having lots of smaller targets to spread around the chances of being hit. For that reason, I will likely be keeping a mix of CAP and IPW.

[liveware (OP)]

Alright, I've re-configured my command structure and slightly modified some of my designs. First, here are the unit designs:

Code: [Select]

Light Platoon Command Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 4.94     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.62     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 50

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.04   
Development Cost  247

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Light Squadron Command Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 1.48     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.19     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 15

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.01   
Development Cost  74

############################
Light Supply Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 49.44     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 6.2     Resupply Cost 0
Logistics Module - Small:      Ground Supply Points 100

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.4   
Development Cost  2,472

#############################
Light Automatic Rifle Mech
Transport Size (tons) 6     Cost 29.66     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 3.7     Resupply Cost 1.3
Improved Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 15      Damage 12

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.24   
Development Cost  1,483

############################
Light Pulse Rifle Mech
Transport Size (tons) 12     Cost 59.33     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 7.4     Resupply Cost 6
Crew-Served Anti-Personnel:      Shots 6      Penetration 12      Damage 12

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.48   
Development Cost  2,966

############################
Light Pulse Cannon Mech
Transport Size (tons) 20     Cost 98.88     Armour 20     Hit Points 16.0
Annual Maintenance Cost 12.4     Resupply Cost 9
Heavy Crew-Served Anti-Personnel:      Shots 6      Penetration 18      Damage 12

Basic Genetic Enhancement
Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Improved Genetic Enhancement
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.8   
Development Cost  4,944

For the unit formations, I have broken up the platoon command structure into greater detail. Front-line light mech units are now organized into squadrons, and each 3 squadrons are assigned to a platoon command post. A complete platoon can fit inside a small troop transport module (250 tons). Squadrons are differentiated by weapon type which allows for weapon mixing at the platoon command level, which is a balancing point that I like. Squadrons carry no extra supplies and rely on their command post for resupply. I recognize that rear-echelon field positioning is meaningless in boarding combat, but I plan on using a similar command system for my planetary assault troops, so I find it convenient to unify these two command structures. Anyway, here are the final formations:

Code: [Select]

Light Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 70 tons
Build Cost: 298.1 BP
10x Light Automatic Rifle Mech
1x Light Squadron Command Mech

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Medium Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 70 tons
Build Cost: 298.1 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
5x Light Pulse Rifle Mech

#############################
Heavy Boarding Squadron
Transport Size: 70 tons
Build Cost: 298.1 BP
1x Light Squadron Command Mech
3x Light Pulse Cannon Mech

#############################
Boarding Platoon Command Post
Transport Size: 40 tons
Build Cost: 153.3 BP
1x Light Platoon Command Mech
3x Light Supply Mech

Attached are a couple of screen shots showing the OOB ground combat screen. In the first screenshot I have one platoon with a light, medium, and heavy boarding squadron attached. In the second screenshot the platoon has two light squads and one medium squad which will probably be what I use in most boarding situations. However, the heavy squads may be useful for boarding ships which may be transporting hostile armored forces, such as carriers. I will likely develop more squads of approximately the same size as shown here as I continue to develop my planetary assault forces.

[liveware (OP)]

Oops, forgot to attach screenshots. See attached!

[Ulzgoroth]

I might suggest considering whether you could afford to add a second HQ unit. Only costs maybe a couple PW worth of space...

Update: ...I was suggesting more HQ units, but the squadron command units seem like a big sacrifice!

Also, I think you'll find the supply mechs don't work that way. IIRC they have to be in the formation they resupply. Only the bigger-sized resupply unit can work down the hierarchy.

I do also think you're right about CAP being most 'kills' per ton, though I am thinking that there is a trade-off between having lots of smaller targets to spread around the chances of being hit. For that reason, I will likely be keeping a mix of CAP and IPW.

Yeah, CAP gives you the most bang for your ton, but it gives someone shooting you the most return as well.

Also, if the fighting goes on long enough to need resupply, CAP is hungrier than personal weapons.

[liveware (OP)]

I might suggest considering whether you could afford to add a second HQ unit. Only costs maybe a couple PW worth of space...

Update: ...I was suggesting more HQ units, but the squadron command units seem like a big sacrifice!

Also, I think you'll find the supply mechs don't work that way. IIRC they have to be in the formation they resupply. Only the bigger-sized resupply unit can work down the hierarchy.

I'm not sure I follow you on the HQ unit discussion. I am under the impression that the boarding troops need an HQ unit with them on board the ship they are attacking. If this is not the case I will probably re-design my platoon/squad structure to keep the HQ units out of the line of fire entirely.

That is unfortunate about the supply units. However if the HQ unit does not need to accompany the boarding party onto the target ship I can probably come up with a similar set-up that will work almost the same as this set up was intended, but may require a larger troop module on the boarding ship to support the larger supply units.

[liveware (OP)]

This is probably a stupid question, but I will ask anyway.

If I have a supply modules (full size) at my platoon HQ, but order my squadrons to individually board the ship, can the supply modules on the boarding ship provide supply to the attack squadrons on the target ship? If they can provide supply in this way, is there any reason to include small supply modules with the attack squadrons at all?

[Ulzgoroth]

I might suggest considering whether you could afford to add a second HQ unit. Only costs maybe a couple PW worth of space...

Update: ...I was suggesting more HQ units, but the squadron command units seem like a big sacrifice!

Also, I think you'll find the supply mechs don't work that way. IIRC they have to be in the formation they resupply. Only the bigger-sized resupply unit can work down the hierarchy.

I'm not sure I follow you on the HQ unit discussion. I am under the impression that the boarding troops need an HQ unit with them on board the ship they are attacking. If this is not the case I will probably re-design my platoon/squad structure to keep the HQ units out of the line of fire entirely.

That is unfortunate about the supply units. However if the HQ unit does not need to accompany the boarding party onto the target ship I can probably come up with a similar set-up that will work almost the same as this set up was intended, but may require a larger troop module on the boarding ship to support the larger supply units.

Strictly speaking I don't think HQs are mandatory at all, but yes, if you want any commander benefits they'll need to be on the scene.

However, you don't have to split your tiny boarding force into multiple formations. I understand why you want to, but the resulting overhead of having 40 tons of HQ units in your 250 ton force is brutal and it makes your command hierarchy more fragile and vulnerable rather than less.

Basically, squad formations are cool but your force would almost certainly be more effective as a single 250 ton formation. It might be worth putting two HQ units rather than one in that formation so you have redundancy in case of a bad boarding roll or an unlucky hit. You can do the hierarchical platoon-and-squadrons thing, I believe it will work (except for the LOGL units in the command formation), just not very well.

And I believe you can transfer units between formations if you need to change the balance of elements in your platoon?

[liveware (OP)]

I wanted to add squads because I have added several ranks to my command hierarchy, such that a corporal-level command would be sensible. However I do think you are right that HQ units aren't always required... I think I had been assuming that officers were only assigned to HQ's but I don't that is actually the case in-game. I'm still muddling around trying to figure out exactly what they are supposed to do. I assume they provide some sort of combat bonus to whatever units are assigned to them. Maybe they are intended to be use in a similar fashion to naval administrative commands. That would make some sense to me.

I've re-read Steve's main posts on boarding combat and logistics. My logistical goal for my boarding platoons is that each platoon be self-sufficient in terms of GSP for at least one complete boarding mission (i.e. one captured ship). To meet this goal, each squad needs to be able to carry enough supplies onto the target ship to be able to be effective in combat, so I probably need to have logistics modules in each squad, not with the platoon HQ. Furthermore, I would need at least a light vehicle sized logistics module to re-supply my squads after combat completes (or during combat if they run dry).

Having thought more about this, I might move the HQ up several command levels so that they are not required to be present on a shipboard detachment at all. Probably better to have HQs stationed on planets. Maybe those will be associated with stationary defensive bunkers or something like that.

More design revisionism is required.

[liveware (OP)]

And I believe you can transfer units between formations if you need to change the balance of elements in your platoon?

You can, but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to move a single element at a time. Seems to be all or nothing which isn't quite the level of precision that I want.

[Ulzgoroth]

Links for information on HQs and commanders:
http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=C-Commander_Boni#Ground_Force_Commander_Boni
http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=C-Ground_Units#Formations
EDIT: This is maybe the most important one: http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=C-GU_Components#HQ_Component

For unit re-arrangement, hit the checkbox "amount popup".


I don't think there's any benefit to having a formation subordinate to an HQ that isn't in the same place. Not 100% sure but everything I've seen suggests that that's pointless if it's even possible.

[liveware (OP)]

According to the wiki link above:

In addition, if the largest HQ in a formation has a rating less than the formation size, the effectiveness of the formation commander's bonuses will be reduced by (HQ rating / formation size). These penalties (command rating and HQ rating) are cumulative.

So that seems to imply that if a formation is built without a HQ then any bonus provided by the formation commander will be reduced to 0, since a formation without an HQ would have HQ rating = 0. Unless it works differently than that.

So it seems that yes, you would need to have either an HQ on each of my squads described above OR a single platoon HQ (redundancy notwithstanding).

Also, thanks for the tip about the amount checkbox.

[Ulzgoroth]

According to the wiki link above:

In addition, if the largest HQ in a formation has a rating less than the formation size, the effectiveness of the formation commander's bonuses will be reduced by (HQ rating / formation size). These penalties (command rating and HQ rating) are cumulative.

So that seems to imply that if a formation is built without a HQ then any bonus provided by the formation commander will be reduced to 0, since a formation without an HQ would have HQ rating = 0. Unless it works differently than that.

So it seems that yes, you would need to have either an HQ on each of my squads described above OR a single platoon HQ (redundancy notwithstanding).

"You can't assign a commander to a formation without an HQ and you can't pass on higher-formation bonuses to formations without an HQ."
You need both, or the platoon-level commander is useless.

Also, thanks for the tip about the amount checkbox.

It took me a bit to find, and I remembered reading about it. Not an obvious UI component that.

[liveware (OP)]

Some day I will unpause the game, so I guess I would have figured out the commander and HQ thing at that point. But it's better to know ahead of time.

After messing around some more, I've gone back to a platoon sized formation.

Code: [Select]

Boarding Platoon
Transport Size: 250 tons
Build Cost: 1,146.9 BP
2x Light Platoon Command Mech
3x Light Supply Mech
5x Light Pulse Rifle Mech
1x Light Pulse Cannon Mech
20x Light Automatic Rifle Mech

Unit designs are the same as in the previous post. The second command mech is for redundancy only. Resupply will be handled post-combat via a sperate dedicated formation which will be designed later. I think the squad concept I was playing around with would have not worked well because all of the separate weapon systems were isolated in each squad, so a 'combined' arms combat round would not have worked well since some squads would be super effective and others would be much less effective. Now, organized together in platoon, the RNG should spread out amongst the individual units in a better way.