Posted by: areyoua
« on: May 30, 2011, 03:57:47 PM »But you never know, even Steve doesn't know where the Russians might be, or when they'll stri-ahhhhhh!
Posted by: MWadwell
« on: May 30, 2011, 03:44:20 PM »I meant see on the sensors what the Eridani are capable of.
Given that those had to run from swarm and the like every now and then, and there were cloaked spies sitting in every major system.
Ultimately, they'll notice as soon as the Eridani start hunting for swarm.
I don't know that the russians have a cloaked spy in every system - I thought that they only had two cloaked scouts....
Posted by: UnLimiTeD
« on: May 30, 2011, 07:32:41 AM »I meant see on the sensors what the Eridani are capable of.
Given that those had to run from swarm and the like every now and then, and there were cloaked spies sitting in every major system.
Ultimately, they'll notice as soon as the Eridani start hunting for swarm.
Given that those had to run from swarm and the like every now and then, and there were cloaked spies sitting in every major system.
Ultimately, they'll notice as soon as the Eridani start hunting for swarm.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 28, 2011, 04:08:50 PM »Soviet Union vs Eridani(ex-NATO): Antiship Missiles
Excerpt from Jane's all the Galaxy's Weapons
Fascinating article. I hadn't realised just how much the designs of the two mjaor powers had converged.
Steve
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 28, 2011, 04:08:04 PM »Didn't the Soviets Catch the new top speed by now?
They have had a severe neutronium shortage and were not able to retool. There is already some detail on faster Soviet ships in the next part
Steve
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 28, 2011, 04:06:42 PM »You mentioned moving Ground Unit TFs from Sol to Eridani.
To my knowledge you can't actually load the things. How does that work?
Well its true you can't load them in v5.42
Steve
Posted by: Wintrow
« on: May 28, 2011, 10:31:46 AM »Awesome update as always!
Minor nitpick:
7th September 2041. 2nd sentence you speak of 14 Houma systems. I think you mean ships.
You are awsome and no-one cares about grammar.
7th September 2041. 2nd sentence you speak of 14 Houma systems. I think you mean ships.
You are awsome and no-one cares about grammar.
Posted by: Narmio
« on: May 28, 2011, 03:36:28 AM »very interesting analisys you made here, but you mistaken Eridani Navy ships top-speed is 7000 km/s, except for the refitted Carrier 6250 km/s and the two newer models of course, which give them a slightly greater advantage towards Soviet NavyI thought that was a clever in-universe deception: Jane's Hardware wouldn't actually know the real top speed of military vessels, as the Eridani have actually been pretty fastidious at covering the full extent of their capabilities up when foreign observers were about. For the same reason that the flank speeds of many real-world naval vessels are kept classified. Of course, I'm sure they're all documented in the Kremlin somewhere. That kind of thing the Soviets were always very, very good at. But a miltech mag? They'll probably have it wrong.
Posted by: Amadeus
« on: May 28, 2011, 01:21:42 AM »Great update Steve,
Wanting more and more !
vergeraiders,
very interesting analisys you made here, but you mistaken Eridani Navy ships top-speed is 7000 km/s, except for the refitted Carrier 6250 km/s and the two newer models of course, which give them a slightly greater advantage towards Soviet Navy
Regards
Wanting more and more !
vergeraiders,
very interesting analisys you made here, but you mistaken Eridani Navy ships top-speed is 7000 km/s, except for the refitted Carrier 6250 km/s and the two newer models of course, which give them a slightly greater advantage towards Soviet Navy
Regards
Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: May 27, 2011, 07:46:23 PM »If the missile will fly to it's targets projected position at the time the seneor is lost, then activate its onboard seeker it would have a much better chance of re-acquiring the target.Look at it the other way around. Once the missileit loses its original lockon it will continue to move towards the original spot where it lost the lockon. While it is doing this it will look for an alternate target. If it finds one then that is what it will home in on. If it went to the original target spot and then activated its sensor it would miss almost anything unless it was very close when it lost the lockon.
Most of the time it will probably aquire a target in the same formation as what it was aimed at. Unless there is only a couple of possible targets what will happen is the damage gets spread out fairly evenly between all of the ships in the formation that it can see. Big targets will tend to be hit harder than small ones as they are generally seen from farther away and therefore that is what the missile locks itself onto.
Brian
Posted by: jseah
« on: May 27, 2011, 07:12:45 PM »You mentioned moving Ground Unit TFs from Sol to Eridani.
To my knowledge you can't actually load the things. How does that work?
To my knowledge you can't actually load the things. How does that work?
Posted by: vergeraiders
« on: May 27, 2011, 01:42:07 PM »I seem to remember however that once a missile loses its target it will home in on any valid target it sees, even if it has not yet reached where the target was lost. Brian
Thats what I figure too, but the range of the missile sensor is pretty short, 1/2 million km (compared to 101 m km overall range). Which the Soviet missile will travel in but 11.7 sec. So if the missile targeting sensor on the ship is lost, the missile would habve to be pretty close to a target to pick it up. Its always possible that some other target could be in the vicinity. To me the active seeker seems to be more likely to allow the missile to find an alternate target if its primary has been destroyed then to be able to home on its original target if shipborne sensor is lost.
If the missile will fly to it's targets projected position at the time the seneor is lost, then activate its onboard seeker it would have a much better chance of re-acquiring the target.
Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: May 27, 2011, 12:59:31 PM »Nice summary on the missile designs. I seem to remember however that once a missile loses its target it will home in on any valid target it sees, even if it has not yet reached where the target was lost. If I am correct then there is a small difference between having your target closing with you when you lose the lockon and one that is running away. If it is closing then your missile will still see it and home in on it. If the target is running then the missile will not see a target. This is of course assuming that the target has enough time between the lockon going down and the missile arriving to clear the missiles sensor area.
Brian
Brian
Posted by: Beersatron
« on: May 27, 2011, 10:56:39 AM »Nice update Steve!
And great breakdown on the missiles Verge
And great breakdown on the missiles Verge
Posted by: vergeraiders
« on: May 27, 2011, 09:34:59 AM »Soviet Union vs Eridani(ex-NATO): Antiship Missiles
Excerpt from Jane's all the Galaxy's Weapons
P-507 Garpun-D
Missile Size: 8 MSP (0.4 HS) Warhead: 9 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 42500 km/s Endurance: 40 minutes Range: 101.2m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.42 Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 120 Maximum Range vs 6000 ton object (or larger): 500,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 8.3367
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 425% 3k km/s 140% 5k km/s 85% 10k km/s 42.5%
BGM-12B Prometheus
Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 9 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 45000 km/s Endurance: 36 minutes Range: 96.8m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.36 Sensitivity Modifier: 180%
Resolution: 60 Maximum Range vs 3000 ton object (or larger): 500,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 5.61
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 450% 3k km/s 150% 5k km/s 90% 10k km/s 45%
Though they have taken different paths to get there, the current state of the art
anti-ship missiles for the two major powers are remarkable similar in capabilities.
In a classic example of Soviets using brute force to nearly equal the technologically
more advanced Eridani, the missiles are nearly equivalent, with the major exception
that the Soviet missile is twice the size of the one fielded by the Eridani.
Both have the same warhead size and manoeuvre rating, while the soviet weapon has a
4.5% longer range, but is 5.5% slower. In projected hit rates, again the Soviet model
is again 5.5% inferior due to its slower speed. Even the terminal acquisition sensors
have the same 0.5m km range, though the Eridani missile can see a target twice as small.
A first look at the nearly identical weapons indicates that in any drawn out battle or
war the advantage lies with the Eridani. All other things being equal the Eridani will
be able to carry more missiles to a fight, transport replacements to the front line
units faster and build more stocks to continue the fight. One thing to note that even
though the Soviet missile is twice the size it only costs 1.48 times as much so while
it will cost them more, the disparity is not as bad as it might look.
It is possible that either force could exploit the range or speed advantage to their
gain. It is widely believed that the Eridani have a modest speed advantage over the
Soviets in major fleet combatants for the purposes of discussion it will be given
that Soviet fleets are capable of 5k km/s and Eridani ships can fly 6k km/s.
The first thing we need to do is calculate the effective range of each of the missiles.
Effective range = max range - speed of enemy ships * flight time. For the Garpuns this
is 101,200,000 - 6000 * 40 * 60 or 101.2m - 14.4 m or 86.8 m km. For the Prometheus
missiles it is 96,800,000 - 5000 * 36 * 60 or 98.8 - 10.8 or 86.0. This results in a
range difference of only 800,000 km or about one and a half minutes if both fleets
were to be closing in at full speed. On the other hand if the Soviets launch full
loads as soon as they reach their effective and immediately reverse course it would
take the Eridani forces 800 sec (13 min 20 sec) to get within their own effective
range. This would guarantee the Garpuns arriving at their targets first, by about
9 minutes. Given that the active, independent homing on the either missile is only
11 or 12 seconds the Eridani force would have to depend on surviving the initial
Soviet strike with sufficient targeting radars to guide their missiles home.
That exercise is beyond the scope of this review and would be dependent on fleet
composition, weapons employed both on offense and defense, ECM, crew skill and
formation. It of course also does not take into account fast attack craft or the
Eridani fighters as launch platforms.
If other circumstances, such as both fleets were well within maximum range, the
exact opposite situation pertains. If both sides launch full strikes simultaneously,
the Eridani missiles would arrive first, and at all but extreme close range, before
the Soviet strike entered terminal homing range. This would put a Soviet fleet in
the position of having to survive mostly intact to guide their missiles home.
We here at Jane's hope that open discussion of the capabilities of the two
major human powers will give their leaders cause to carefully consider how
evenly matched some of their capabilities are and that any conflict will likely
be very destructive and greatly reduce overall human defensive capabilities in
the face of at least 3 hostile alien species.
Excerpt from Jane's all the Galaxy's Weapons
P-507 Garpun-D
Missile Size: 8 MSP (0.4 HS) Warhead: 9 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 42500 km/s Endurance: 40 minutes Range: 101.2m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.42 Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 120 Maximum Range vs 6000 ton object (or larger): 500,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 8.3367
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 425% 3k km/s 140% 5k km/s 85% 10k km/s 42.5%
BGM-12B Prometheus
Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 9 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 45000 km/s Endurance: 36 minutes Range: 96.8m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.36 Sensitivity Modifier: 180%
Resolution: 60 Maximum Range vs 3000 ton object (or larger): 500,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 5.61
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 450% 3k km/s 150% 5k km/s 90% 10k km/s 45%
Though they have taken different paths to get there, the current state of the art
anti-ship missiles for the two major powers are remarkable similar in capabilities.
In a classic example of Soviets using brute force to nearly equal the technologically
more advanced Eridani, the missiles are nearly equivalent, with the major exception
that the Soviet missile is twice the size of the one fielded by the Eridani.
Both have the same warhead size and manoeuvre rating, while the soviet weapon has a
4.5% longer range, but is 5.5% slower. In projected hit rates, again the Soviet model
is again 5.5% inferior due to its slower speed. Even the terminal acquisition sensors
have the same 0.5m km range, though the Eridani missile can see a target twice as small.
A first look at the nearly identical weapons indicates that in any drawn out battle or
war the advantage lies with the Eridani. All other things being equal the Eridani will
be able to carry more missiles to a fight, transport replacements to the front line
units faster and build more stocks to continue the fight. One thing to note that even
though the Soviet missile is twice the size it only costs 1.48 times as much so while
it will cost them more, the disparity is not as bad as it might look.
It is possible that either force could exploit the range or speed advantage to their
gain. It is widely believed that the Eridani have a modest speed advantage over the
Soviets in major fleet combatants for the purposes of discussion it will be given
that Soviet fleets are capable of 5k km/s and Eridani ships can fly 6k km/s.
The first thing we need to do is calculate the effective range of each of the missiles.
Effective range = max range - speed of enemy ships * flight time. For the Garpuns this
is 101,200,000 - 6000 * 40 * 60 or 101.2m - 14.4 m or 86.8 m km. For the Prometheus
missiles it is 96,800,000 - 5000 * 36 * 60 or 98.8 - 10.8 or 86.0. This results in a
range difference of only 800,000 km or about one and a half minutes if both fleets
were to be closing in at full speed. On the other hand if the Soviets launch full
loads as soon as they reach their effective and immediately reverse course it would
take the Eridani forces 800 sec (13 min 20 sec) to get within their own effective
range. This would guarantee the Garpuns arriving at their targets first, by about
9 minutes. Given that the active, independent homing on the either missile is only
11 or 12 seconds the Eridani force would have to depend on surviving the initial
Soviet strike with sufficient targeting radars to guide their missiles home.
That exercise is beyond the scope of this review and would be dependent on fleet
composition, weapons employed both on offense and defense, ECM, crew skill and
formation. It of course also does not take into account fast attack craft or the
Eridani fighters as launch platforms.
If other circumstances, such as both fleets were well within maximum range, the
exact opposite situation pertains. If both sides launch full strikes simultaneously,
the Eridani missiles would arrive first, and at all but extreme close range, before
the Soviet strike entered terminal homing range. This would put a Soviet fleet in
the position of having to survive mostly intact to guide their missiles home.
We here at Jane's hope that open discussion of the capabilities of the two
major human powers will give their leaders cause to carefully consider how
evenly matched some of their capabilities are and that any conflict will likely
be very destructive and greatly reduce overall human defensive capabilities in
the face of at least 3 hostile alien species.
