Fleet Refuses to fire.

[Duzzit (OP)]

First of all, I'm not quite certain I'm putting this in the right place, and my first instinct was to actually try to place this in the bug forum, however, after debating on that for a few moments, I decided it's probably a better idea to put it down here given that it's more likely that I am the cause of the problem.

So now, without further ado I'll try to outline my problem, and I'll be grateful for any assistance rendered.

Game Version 5. 54.

Some Background Stuff:

I've only been playing Aurora for a few days, most of that spent in my 'first' game that I went around and tried to figure out what I was doing, where I explored, attempted terraforming mars(was quite bad at that >. >), and generally explored like a clueless newb that I am. 

In 2056 (I started in 2051) one of my explorers ran into a system containing an 800 ton wreck.  I, thinking that I had found some free loot, moved closer to this wreck whereupon I met what I know from reading the forum to be a swarm mothership. Needless to say my explorer didn't last long. 60 bloody meson armed FAC's? Madness.

Several years later I had built up a respectable fleet, trained them to 100, loaded them with missiles and sent them to teach this dumb bug a lesson.

My fleet got annihilated as halfway through the combat they run out of missiles( I kind of ignored the need for any form of tenders -. -), and I had very few other weapons.  Still, it was a good practice on actual combat, even if I did lose. 

After that I started a new game, and here is where my problem lies.

Bug?/Current Situation:

It's been. . . 22 Years since start in my current game, and once again I had met a star swarm.  Not messing around, I sent a large (or what I consider large) TG of 20 combat cruisers, not to mention 10 tenders and two dedicated ELINT ships(basically, ships with gigantic active/passive sensors).

The Swarm's Fac's began getting closer.  They entered my missile envelope.  Nothing.  They went well inside the missile envelope.  Nothing.  They entered my short range missile envelope, still nothing.  They get into their own weapon range(IE they're right on top of me).  My ships are still refusing to fire. 

I've tried everything, telling my ships to auto fire, open fire, changed fire controls, tried to use my PD missiles in my main missile launchers, tried to manually give targets to individual fire controls, nothing.  My fleet is refusing to fire.  I've split the fleet, I've reformed it, etc they refuse to fire.  (As do my lasers).

out of the 20  ships, the only one that's fired is the ships I took out of the fleet and I gave manual fire control orders to, but I can't really do that for 20 ships and for 60 targets, not to mention for later actions.  Frankly I'm not sure what to do, I'm even considering going into SM mode and teleporting my ships out of there, because at this rate they'll slowly get slaughtered.

I'd really appreciate any help given on this matter, as It's frustrating the hell out of me right now.

Additional Queries:

How can I tell a Task Group to join a different Task force? whenever I try it doesn't stick.

[Thiosk]

Woah.  At first I'd say you incorrectly slaved the missile launchers to the fire controls, but since you had successful combats previously, I'm not sure whats going on here.  Every time I've had failure to fire problems its been my fault, so I'm not sure what is happening.

We'll need some screenshots.  If you have dropbox, consider posting your stevefire.mdb file.  If you need an invite to dropbox, pm me with your email address and then i'll get a bonus 250 mb space.  Yay!  lol.  I won't be off work for a good number of hours though.

[Duzzit (OP)]

Woah.    At first I'd say you incorrectly slaved the missile launchers to the fire controls, but since you had successful combats previously, I'm not sure whats going on here.    Every time I've had failure to fire problems its been my fault, so I'm not sure what is happening. 

To be fair, I might have simply completely and utterly messed up making my Missile Fire Controls, but given that the Audacious (my experimental missile cruiser) was able to fire once I manually told it what to do, I'm not sure that's the case. 

That or I am still somehow messing up my MFC/ML orders. 

*Does some checking*

Ok, it seems that some of my turrets/missile launchers have switched to the different Missile/Laser fire controls, but the majority of them are in the correct place.   I'll edit that and see if that fixes it. 

We'll need some screenshots.    If you have dropbox, consider posting your stevefire.  mdb file.    If you need an invite to dropbox, pm me with your email address and then i'll get a bonus 250 mb space.    Yay!  lol.    I won't be off work for a good number of hours though. 

I'll upload some screenshots soon, as well as possibly linking my dropbox.   Unfortunately I already have dropbox so I can't provide you with the bonus MB.   

EDIT:

Did some testing, firstly I can force my ships to fire on a target if I manually select target, and manually select the fire control, then click the open fire button.  but doing that for every ship, and having to switch targets is. . . well frankly a bit of a pain.  Also, the Auto-Fire and Open Fire commands seem to like messing up my Fire Controls/Launchers/ECCM selections, in that instead of two ship-ship fire controls controlling half the missiles each, all launchers seem to like to go to a single 1.  same with point defence launchers.

[Person012345]

There are buttons to copy the assignments of fire controls and weapons to all ships of the same type, and a button to have the entire fleet hold/open fire.

[Thiosk]

Ok the ships seem to be firing normally, actually.  Autofire isn't really for you.  I use autofire when I'm doing things like moving my point defense ships over some hostile freighters.  They just do it automatically.

To properly assign firecontrols, pick the first firecontrol, highlight the guns you want, and hit assign.

Then, make sure you set the point defense rules for that fire control, assign the ECCM if there is any, and finally make sure you load it with missiles.  I believe the protocol is to highlight the missile launchers and the missile, then hit that assign button.

Now that i think about it, its a really complicated window.  I need to hire a really hot blond to work my control panels while I shout commands.

I'd pay good money for that game.

[xeryon]

Some of your problems sound like you are using the ships screen to control your settings and not the combat overview.  The ship screen doesn't work for the most part.  If you use the combat screen you can set up one ship of a type and then use the shortcut options to copy your missile and fire control assignments to all the other ships.  Once everyone is set you can select automated fire if you don't want to micromanage the battle.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

also note the multi-targets button. it will assign a different target, below the current target in the list, for the same firecontrol in other ships of the same class in the fleet. So it's a great way to split your salvos in a pinch.

[Duzzit (OP)]

Ok the ships seem to be firing normally, actually.      Autofire isn't really for you.      I use autofire when I'm doing things like moving my point defense ships over some hostile freighters.      They just do it automatically.   

To properly assign firecontrols, pick the first firecontrol, highlight the guns you want, and hit assign.     

Then, make sure you set the point defense rules for that fire control, assign the ECCM if there is any, and finally make sure you load it with missiles.      I believe the protocol is to highlight the missile launchers and the missile, then hit that assign button.   

Now that i think about it, its a really complicated window.      I need to hire a really hot blond to work my control panels while I shout commands.   

I'd pay good money for that game.   

This is currently what my Gun/Missile assignment looks like, if copied from the Combat Overview Screen.     (Below is my Battleship's selection).   

Ship Beam Fire Control #1:   No Target Assignment
Quad 30cm C10 X-Ray Laser Turret #1 (Ready To Fire)

Ship Beam Fire Control #2:   No Target Assignment
Quad 30cm C10 X-Ray Laser Turret #2 (Ready To Fire)

Ship Beam PD Fire Control #1 (Point Blank PD Mode 2):   No Target Assignment
Twin 10cm C10 X-Ray Laser Turret #1 (Ready To Fire)

Ship Beam PD Fire Control #2 (Point Blank PD Mode 2):   No Target Assignment
Twin 10cm C10 X-Ray Laser Turret #2 (Ready To Fire)

Ship Missile Fire Control #1:   No Target Assignment
ECCM-4 #1
Long Range Missile Launcher #1 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #2 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #3 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #4 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #5 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #6 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #7 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #8 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #9 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #10 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)

Ship Missile Fire Control #2:   No Target Assignment
ECCM-4 #2
Long Range Missile Launcher #11 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #12 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #13 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #14 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #15 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #16 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #17 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #18 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #19 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)
Long Range Missile Launcher #20 - Long Range Anti Ship Missile (Ready To Fire)

Ship Point Defence Missile Fire Control #1 (2v1 PD Mode 1000):   No Target Assignment
Small PD Missile Launcher #1 - Small PD Missile (Ready To Fire)
Large PD Missile Launcher #1 - Large PD Missile (Ready To Fire)

Ship Point Defence Missile Fire Control #2 (2v1 PD Mode 1000):   No Target Assignment
Small PD Missile Launcher #2 - Small PD Missile (Ready To Fire)
Large PD Missile Launcher #2 - Large PD Missile (Ready To Fire)



Active Sensors On

Some of your problems sound like you are using the ships screen to control your settings and not the combat overview.      The ship screen doesn't work for the most part.      If you use the combat screen you can set up one ship of a type and then use the shortcut options to copy your missile and fire control assignments to all the other ships.      Once everyone is set you can select automated fire if you don't want to micromanage the battle.   

I'm not using the ship screen(that is the one in the ship list, or do you mean the individual ship screen inside the combat assignment window?).     Though saying that, when I did use the ship screen and manually told my missile cruiser to fire after manually selecting the damned target, etc it actually complied .   

also note the multi-targets button.     it will assign a different target, below the current target in the list, for the same firecontrol in other ships of the same class in the fleet.     So it's a great way to split your salvos in a pinch.     

I haven't tried to use the multi-target just yet.    .    .     but that means I'll need to manually select the primary targets always, before sharing right? I'll try it in a moment.   

There are buttons to copy the assignments of fire controls and weapons to all ships of the same type, and a button to have the entire fleet hold/open fire.   

I use the copy assignment thing for weps/fc, as well as clicking the open fire/autofire/cease fire every 10 seconds (where I've lost a ship by this point).   

Some Pictures:(EDIT: The forum seems to be refusing my links =/)
And yes, I have tried selecting/deselecting both the Iserlohn Fleet, and all of it's sub groups/individual ships)

My main fleet and my fleet support ships are under that swarm pileup.     My Experimental missile cruiser and AWACS are to the south west.     

The combat assignment screen if looked at from me clicking on my Flagship (the Victory class called Hyperion)


Things to do/try:
Multiple Targets thing.  - Before I try, does this mean I have to manually select a lot of targets first, and then let it share to other ships so they also target or? I don't mind if I have to, but I would imagine my ship Captain's are smart enough to bloody fire without fleet hq telling them what to do -.    -.   

Furthermore, does anyone know how I can force a task group to join a different task force? currently no matter what I do, the fleets all link back to the default Fleet HQ that we get at the start.   

[Havear]

Looks like you've figured out how to copy assignments. Right below that button is one to copy a target. Just select what target you want with one ship and copy it to the rest in the TG. I realize this didn't answer your question about multi-target, but I don't use that feature (no need to. Either I use a full salvo to ensure a kill or when a definite overkill, there's only one target anyway. Passive sensors ftw.)

As for the TF thing, yeah, that's been a bug for a while. You'll have to add a new branch to the TF in the Naval Organization tab of the TG window, call it whatever you want. Select the Branch, click Add TG, then Create New Branch using Branch + Sub. It will do exactly as described, and create a new TG out of that branch of the wanted TF.

Finally, a note about you weapons loadout. I'd personally say I think you have too many fire controls. In my case I'd probably double-up the twin turrets with one fire control and the PD launchers with another at minimum. Ultimately of course you use whatever works, so if the aliens you're fighting require something like that, by all means.

[Duzzit (OP)]

Is there no way to have my ships captains take some initiative and target on their own? I don't mind selecting a target, and copying it to the rest of the fleet, but it seems a bit long.  The other problem with that though is it's a swarm navy, so I'd have to do that for 70 odd targets, not to mention that means that a lot of the time I'd have wasted several dozen missiles in Overkill.

Thanks for the TF thing though, I've been going mad trying to get it to work.

As for the weapons loadout. . . I'm still trying to learn how many I should have, so this time I've got such an overkill amount.  Usually I'd proboably do less.

[Havear]

In that case multi-fire is for you. Probably the best case would be to assign one group of missile launchers on your first BB to one FAC and the other to another, then hit the Same Loc button in Multiple Targets. You'd want to double-check, but theoretically that does what you want.

Also, it wasn't the weapons so much that I was pointing out as the fire controls. Unless you need that many for PD purposes, they're a parasitic weight.

[Duzzit (OP)]

In that case multi-fire is for you.  Probably the best case would be to assign one group of missile launchers on your first BB to one FAC and the other to another, then hit the Same Loc button in Multiple Targets.  You'd want to double-check, but theoretically that does what you want.

it worked.  Finally, my ships weren't slowly getting butchered .  The problem is that I'm having to constantly update the firing list/updating the targetting controls, but. . .  *shrug* at least it sort of works.  Need less fire controls on my ships now though xD.

Also, it wasn't the weapons so much that I was pointing out as the fire controls.  Unless you need that many for PD purposes, they're a parasitic weight.

I did actually mean the FC.

[sloanjh]

First of all, I'm not quite certain I'm putting this in the right place, and my first instinct was to actually try to place this in the bug forum, however, after debating on that for a few moments, I decided it's probably a better idea to put it down here given that it's more likely that I am the cause of the problem.

Thank you - you put it in exactly the right place.  "When in doubt, put it in The Academy"

John

[Theokrat]

[off topic]Wait, what is a "large PD missile"?, also for twin laser PD turrets you could group two under one FC, the current setup is a bit wasteful [/offtoic]

[Charlie Beeler]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention.  You don't need capacitor 10's on the 10cm Lasers, they only need 3's.  Using larger capacitors only increase cost, it does not accelerate ROF.