Author Topic: Mine Rules  (Read 2992 times)

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Offline Tregonsee (OP)

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Mine Rules
« on: January 16, 2009, 09:59:13 AM »
Under Imperial Starfire rules, I have a few questions about minefields:

A ship enters a minefield and does not conduct any further movement that turn, as it knows there are mines there.  Using its XRs, it realizes that all of the surrounding hexes, with the exception of the hex it came from there are also mines.  On the following turn, it turns 180 degrees (to go back to the unmined hex).  Do the mines attack it during that next turn?

Should a ship that does not have energy weapons but has XR and 'D's attempt to do minesweeping operations?

Does a Dz count as a 'D' for the pruposes of minesweeping operations (or for that matter, count as a D vs. fighters/small craft)?

Are there any formulas to calculate optimal force packages against a minefield of a given size?

Thanks a lot!
 

Offline xtfoster

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Re: Mine Rules
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 02:44:53 PM »
Quote from: "Tregonsee"
Under Imperial Starfire rules, I have a few questions about minefields:

A ship enters a minefield and does not conduct any further movement that turn, as it knows there are mines there.  Using its XRs, it realizes that all of the surrounding hexes, with the exception of the hex it came from there are also mines.  On the following turn, it turns 180 degrees (to go back to the unmined hex).  Do the mines attack it during that next turn?
1) The Mines would attack when the unit entered the minefield
2) The Mines would attack when the unit turned around (assuming a "quick-turn", if it turned around 1 hex-side at a time, it would be attacked each time it turned).
3) The Mines would attack when the unit left the minefield

04.18.02.2 Target Selection, Minefield: Active minefields will attack any large spacecraft that move into their range, which is 0 (the same hex as the MF) for all current MF types. Unlike other weapons, minefields execute their attacks in the movement phase of the turn, at the end of the movement impulse in which their target(s) entered, exited, or spent a movement point in place in their hex. If a non-friendly unit enters the range of an active unknown minefield, the owning player does not announce the presence of the mines until all movement has been completed for that impulse. As soon as all movement is completed, the minefield immediately attacks. A non-moving unit, such as a base that has been towed into range or a starship that has lost its drive, will be attacked by the minefields once on the first movement impulse of each turn that they are in range. (See 27.08.05 for minefield rules.)
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Should a ship that does not have energy weapons but has XR and 'D's attempt to do minesweeping operations?
Sure, if it has a large enough, and good enough, suite of Point Defense, i.e., enough to engage all attacking patterns with with a '10' chance to intercept.
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Does a Dz count as a 'D' for the purposes of minesweeping operations (or for that matter, count as a D vs. fighters/small craft)?
Yes to both
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Are there any formulas to calculate optimal force packages against a minefield of a given size?
Actually, the size of the minefield has no bearing on the design of the Minesweeper. Regardless of the size of the Minefield each pattern will fire 1 mine per 10 HS in size of its target. The pattern will fire a minimum of 10 mines (so a 30 HS DD will still be targeted by 10 mines) and a maximum of 50 mines (so a 300 HS Super-Monitor will still only be attacked by 50 mines). Each pattern fires as a separate volley, so Point-Defense is available for each pattern (assuming it isn't destroyed by a previous pattern). Each pattern will attack once until there are no more targets, and a unit cannot be engaged more than once until all targets have been engaged once.
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Thanks a lot!
 

Offline Tregonsee (OP)

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Re: Mine Rules
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 10:15:24 PM »
Let me rephrase my last question.  For a minefield of size X, how many ships or HS worth of ships do I need to clear out the minefield?

A new question, what percentage of HS of a minesweeper should be shields/armor?
 

Offline Kurt

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Re: Mine Rules
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 10:55:51 AM »
Here is a design from my Phoenix Campaign:
Code: [Select]
XANTHE TERRA class BB(MS)   20 XO Racks 100 Hull TL 9
[4] S0x29Acx51ZHsTiTiTi(III)(III)(III)(III)(BbM)QFcM4Dx10FcXrLhQ?(III)Fc [5]
100 RCP     Trg:5  Def -3     Cost =  2215/ 332.2
HTK 120 S0x29  Acx51  Dx10  Fcx3

The GDO did not deploy a dedicated minesweeper class during the Eater War, instead relying on the GLOIRE Class BC’s using anti-mine missiles to clear Eater mine fields.  While this worked, the Gorandan Fleet Administrators were unsatisfied with this approach.  Using the BC’s took time, and was only feasible once enemy forces had been destroyed or driven away.  Additionally, the BC’s were forced to use most of their magazine space for anti-mine missiles, meaning their anti-ship capability was severely limited.  While this worked fine against the relatively weak Eater forces, the Gorandan Administrators felt that if they had faced a more powerful opponent this could become a serious problem.  The XANTHE TERRA Class Minesweeper is intended to fill this gap in the ASR’s capabilities.  Between their powerful point defense suite, their heavy armor, and the mine-hunting pinnace complement, the XANTHE TERRA’s are capable of clearing out any mine field the ASR has encountered to date.  

It has been a long time since I played Starfire, so I can't remember the criteria I used to develop this design.  From what I do remember, I calculated the maximum number of mines that a minesweeper would encounter per round based on its hull size, then included enough point defense to engage those mines.  The remaining hull spaces were then devoted to passive defenses, to maximize survival, and beams to destroy mine patterns.  The above design could have had four standard force beams instead of three capital beams, but IMO that would have reduced its combat capability against standard ships too much.  

Kurt
 

Offline Tregonsee (OP)

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Re: Mine Rules
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 09:01:37 AM »
Well, I used the Starfire Assistant ver 7.0 to run the mine field and got more losses than I had hoped, and did not clear the mine field of all of its mines.  If SA had had a mine simulator (like the SBMHAWK simulator), I would not have done the 'enter minefield, turn around, go back to where I was' routine.  It would have been better to accept the damage, go on to the next hex on the next turn (less mines), etc., until I cleared the mine field.  I could then wait until my shields were back up and _then_ go back through in order to clear out all of the mines in that tactical hex.

575 Mine patterns can do a lot of damage.  Using some inputs (Number of ships, HS, 'D's used, ECM used, etc) is there a way to have a basic idea how much damage would be done to a fleet entering a size X minefield?