Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: July 02, 2016, 09:34:36 AM »I believe he was referring to one of my overdrive proposals. Though I did mention limiting it to the max power level you have researched anyway.
What's to stop players from making fighters, with maxed out engines, that then have another stage above that.
Just make engine power modifiers slightly more expensive as a trade-off for allowing a x2EP engine to only consume as much as a x0.5EP engine if you dial the task-group down to 1/4 of full speed, instead of just consuming a quarter of normal consumption. I highly doubt rockets actually work that way in real life, but at least this way nobody needs to add any more buttons to the UI or any more mechanics that I need to use my calculator for.Rockets don't work that way, but that's essentially what I'm suggesting doing, only we justify it by pointing out that the game's fluff states that the ships move in a fluid medium in the TN universe, and in a fluid, the resistance is not constant with speed. Instead of fuel consumption per unit power changing and power per unit speed staying constant, power per unit speed changes and fuel consumption per unit power stays constant.
Edit: Anyway, I don't like the comparisons to sea ships. TN elements might give the motion of this game's starships fluid-like characteristics, but these "ships" are still single-stage rocket vehicles and not boats. iirc the space shuttle itself only had one type of main engine (three of them), and anything else that it had was either intended to be jettisoned or it was a manoeuvring thruster.They're not really rockets, and certainly bear no resemblance to the space shuttle. Also, I've done spacecraft designs with multiple types of proper engines, although they were for SF and not intended to be built.
The best way to do it is probably to change the 'resistance model' the game uses, not the engines themselves. If power required scales with speed^1.5, throttling back will help a lot. Allowing really wide throttling of the engines seems both unrealistic and an invitation for micromanagement and abuse.
What should such a button do? "Pick the speed for the task group that every ship can achieve on their least powerful engines" ? Something more user-definable?If I were setting it up, I'd add a third speed box to the TG window, labeled 'cruise speed'. It's user-definable, like the current speed box, but probably with a button that would set its value to 'maximum cruise speed for slowest ship'. And add a command to allow you to set cruise and max speed through the orders window.
I'd care about having to do micromanagement to avoid wasting fuel for the same performance.That's what is likely to kill this off. High transit speed is a boon for most ships.
Using more than one engine will never be efficient due to the additional weight, wha I would prefer is if the currently existing option to change a task groups speed would also allow more efficient engine operation.I'm broadly in agreement, although I can think of a few cases where a 'sprint engine' might be very handy. The most obvious is for something like a survey vessel. It's got a relatively slow main engine for its normal job, and a small, max-boost sprint engine for running away from things.
Obviously an engine will be at its best operating condition when running at it's designed speed, just like a real engine, but there should be some advantage of running slower. At the moment halving a ships speed just makes it take twice as long which uses just as much fuel.The best way to do it is probably to change the 'resistance model' the game uses, not the engines themselves. If power required scales with speed^1.5, throttling back will help a lot. Allowing really wide throttling of the engines seems both unrealistic and an invitation for micromanagement and abuse.
You shouldn't be able to throttle back an FAC's engines to suddenly make them as efficient as a freighter, but going slower should save fuel, the question is how much?
Nice simplification. I think failure rate should be really high though so that it's a pretty risky combat maneuver.To solve the fuel/maintenance/NPR problem you could just introduce a separate "engine overheats" check, perhaps something that starts very low but increases proportionally with time. Not sure an overheated engine would just shut down though, or would it explode?
The other important consideration is should NPRs be able to do this too? Of course you will say, it's cheating if you have another strategy to use against the AI which it can't counter.
Think of the possibilities, your hunter killer ships pounce apon those defenceless enemy freighters, only to find them pumping upto max power and evading your sleek new warship. Ok that's a problem, in some cases it should be possible, but certainly a .3 multiplier ship shouldn't be able to pump upto x3, an idea might to be make using this for power increase drops the ships commercial design flag, opening it up to failures, this would be very useful for Q-ships indeed. Maybe there should be a limit, maximum increase or decrease should be limited to how much multiplier you have researched. If you have 2x researched you can get a power 1 to power 2, or a power .5 to power 1 but not anymore than that.
The other consideration is that NPRs don't use fuel or maintenence so in theory their ships can just blast along at full overdrive with no worries, while your own ships run out of fuel and break.
I guess one solution would be for the engines to automatically prioritize using engines with the lowest Fuel Use Per EPH first, so if a ship is moving at the cruising speed, it would use exclusively the cruise engines, even if it is in "high speed mode", but if it only moves slightly above cruising speed, then it'll have it's cruising engines at full power, and it's high speed engines firing only to make up the difference.That's what I was assuming. The problem is that you're going to be spending a lot of time at lower than maximum speed, and it would be very helpful to have some way to semi-automate that instead of having to remember what your cruising speed is and then manually input it every time.
Now that I think of it: even if we don't allow multiple engine types powered at once, we can eliminate micromanagement by assuming that we can alternate between engines within a tick - after all, there is no inertia. So there would be a smooth progression for fuel consumption for both approaches.That doesn't eliminate micromanagement. The micromanagement is that you have to control speed a lot more closely under this approach. Particularly if we go with only allowing one engine to run at a time, we need to have a button which sets the ship to its cruising speed.