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Offline Seolferwulf

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Utility Carrier
« on: May 03, 2018, 09:35:43 AM »
I've designed a multi-purpose carrier for surveying, scouting, and removing light threats like smaller groups of enemy ships.
What's your opinion on this?

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Hound Lord II class Light Carrier    50 000 tons     1100 Crew     12340.5 BP      TCS 30  TH 192  EM 1200
3200 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 7-120     Shields 40-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 100     PPV 16
Maint Life 2.29 Years     MSP 10829    AFR 284%    IFR 4%    1YR 2800    5YR 41994    Max Repair 3528 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 328   
Hangar Deck Capacity 15000 tons     Magazine 1600   

Hound Lord Jump Drive II     Max Ship Size 50400 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Hound Lord Solid Core AM Drive (4)    Power 800    Fuel Use 0.81%    Signature 48    Exp 4%
Fuel Capacity 1 000 000 Litres    Range 444.4 billion km   (1607 days at full power)
Sigma Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  64 Litres per hour  (1 536 per day)

CIWS III (2x12)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (16)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
AMM MFC III (4)     Range 19.2m km    Resolution 1
AMM II (808)  Speed: 120 000 km/s   End: 0.2m    Range: 1.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 3800/2280/1140
Cerberus ASM II (132)  Speed: 45 100 km/s   End: 73.9m    Range: 200m km   WH: 49    Size: 6    TH: 616/369/184

Hound Lord ASS II (1)     GPS 32000     Range 2 862.2m km    Resolution 20
AMM ASS III (1)     GPS 40     Range 16.0m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 3% of normal

Strike Group
6x Shuttle II Shuttle   Speed: 16000 km/s    Size: 5
44x Cerberus III Fighter   Speed: 39735 km/s    Size: 6.04

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

And the fighters:
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Cerberus III class Fighter    302 tons     2 Crew     446.5 BP      TCS 6.04  TH 14.4  EM 0
39735 km/s     Armour 3-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 1.8
Maint Life 14.04 Years     MSP 185    AFR 3%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 2    5YR 26    Max Repair 180 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 12   

Fighter Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 120    Fuel Use 246.92%    Signature 7.2    Exp 30%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 12.1 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Size 6 Box Launcher (2)    Missile Size 6    Hangar Reload 45 minutes    MF Reload 7.5 hours
Cerberus MFC II (1)     Range 339.4m km    Resolution 50
Cerberus ASM II (2)  Speed: 45 100 km/s   End: 73.9m    Range: 200m km   WH: 49    Size: 6    TH: 616/369/184

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

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Shuttle II class Shuttle    250 tons     6 Crew     149.5 BP      TCS 5  TH 4.8  EM 0
16000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 20.99 Years     MSP 75    AFR 2%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 5    Max Repair 60 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.57 months    Spare Berths 0   
Cryogenic Berths 200   

Shuttle Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 300 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
Fighter Scout Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 40    Fuel Use 15.84%    Signature 2.4    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 30 000 Litres    Range 136.4 billion km   (98 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

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Terror Hound II class Fighter-Scout    500 tons     16 Crew     383 BP      TCS 10  TH 4.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/240/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.65 Years     MSP 96    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 11    5YR 167    Max Repair 240 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0   

Fighter Scout Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 40    Fuel Use 15.84%    Signature 2.4    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 113.6 billion km   (164 days at full power)

Hound EM Detection Sensor III (1)     Sensitivity 240     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  240m km
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

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Blood Hound II class Fighter-Scout    500 tons     16 Crew     383 BP      TCS 10  TH 4.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 240/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.65 Years     MSP 96    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 11    5YR 167    Max Repair 240 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0   

Fighter Scout Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 40    Fuel Use 15.84%    Signature 2.4    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 113.6 billion km   (164 days at full power)

Hound Thermal Sensor III (1)     Sensitivity 240     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  240m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

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Graviton Hound III class Fighter-Scout    500 tons     14 Crew     457.4 BP      TCS 10  TH 4.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/5/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.53 Years     MSP 114    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 9    5YR 135    Max Repair 300 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   

Fighter Scout Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 40    Fuel Use 15.84%    Signature 2.4    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 95 000 Litres    Range 215.9 billion km   (312 days at full power)

Phased Gravitational Sensors (1)   5 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

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Ore Hound II class Fighter-Scout    500 tons     14 Crew     457.4 BP      TCS 10  TH 4.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/5     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.53 Years     MSP 114    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 9    5YR 135    Max Repair 300 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   

Fighter Scout Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 40    Fuel Use 15.84%    Signature 2.4    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 95 000 Litres    Range 215.9 billion km   (312 days at full power)

Phased Geological Sensors (1)   5 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

The last design is pretty new and hasn't seen any action yet.
Opinions here welcome as well.
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Dead-Eye class Stealth Scout    497 tons     4 Crew     777.4 BP      TCS 0.2982  TH 14.4  EM 0
24144 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.52 Years     MSP 196    AFR 9%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 16    5YR 234    Max Repair 400 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 0   

Fighter Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 120    Fuel Use 246.92%    Signature 7.2    Exp 30%
Fuel Capacity 25 000 Litres    Range 3.7 billion km   (42 hours at full power)

Dead-Eye ASS (1)     GPS 8000     Range 715.5m km    Resolution 20
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 3% of normal

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 12:48:50 PM »
I certainly like 'utility carriers', but 50,000 tons is not a utility anything.

Just considering the survey component, I use 800 ton grav survey LACs, and I can't imagine wanting more than 4 in a system.  It just wouldn't be efficient to have more.  And for Geosurvey, most people prefer long endurance commercial geosurvey ships, which can survey everything from massive moon systems to outer system asteroids without micromanaging.  Small geosurvey craft are kind of a nuisance.

The Cerberus fighters have a bit of a mismatch, 3 days crew endurance and 14 years for maintenance?  I suppose those are good for patrolling a colony world for a long time.  If the MSP is intended to do combat repairs, because the MSPs are a close match for the Max Repair, I am pretty sure that Combat repairs cost twice the MSPs of mere maintenance failures.

I like the Deadeye scout.  3% of cross-section of 487 tons is approximately 15 tons, or 6 MSP, the smallest signature that Aurora acknowledges.

I am impressed with the capabilities of really high tech survey fighters, but they seem to have equal mass for engines as fuel.  Going with 3 somewhat more efficient engines and less fuel would make them significantly more effective, because with 5 survey points an hour, they spend more time travelling than surveying, even at their high speed.
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 12:56:33 PM »
Also, fuel efficient is nice, but that is excessive for a military ship, in my opinion.  Have the carrier travel with a commercial tanker, maybe an armored tanker with CIWS, but unless fuel is a serious problem for your empire, go for a bit more speed over logistical issues that could be solved by adding a support ship.
 

Offline Seolferwulf

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 01:43:37 PM »
Thanks for your input.

I'm not sure, maybe I just use the word wrong D:
Well, I do like big carriers and I intend to make even bigger ones.

Regarding the 14 years of maintenance life, I was trying to match the max repair with with maintenance storage.
I wasn't even thinking about combat, just that it would be nice if they could repair their engines and not get stranded somewhere.
But they already have two engines for such unlucky occasions.
This will be something I address with the next Cerberus generation.

As for the survey fighters, not sure what happend for them to turn out like that.
I guess I was simply modifiying them so they can run for a longer time without actually looking at the engine and the ratio to fuel storage.
I'll have to take another look at the carrier's engines, too.
Them being commercial somehow interferes with the fighter's jump capability - every squadron jump attempt fails.
Exchanging the carrier's engines for military ones should fix this.

As stealth technology advances I also intend to make the stealth scouts bigger.
A 1k tons stealth scout could carry a much larger active search sensor.
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 05:31:10 PM »
No, the carriers being commercial means they can make use of Commercial Jump Engines if their fighters are on board.  If you are going as a squadron with the fighters not having LANDED, then it won't work, even with a military jump engine, because there will be TOO MANY ships for a jump.

A commercial jump engine, especially for a big ship, will be easier to research and much cheaper.  It will also be bigger because its jump efficiency isn't as good, it will jump 1 fewer ship and jump half as far from the jump point, so it will NOT be good for a Jump Assault.
 

Offline Seolferwulf

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 06:03:38 PM »
Seems like I communicated that one badly.
My carrier's current jump engine is military and regular engines are commercial.
What I like to do when exploring jump points is to park my carrier at the jump point and let the scouts go through first.
Currently my scouts can't do squadron jumps for whatever reason.
I had hoped to fix this by switching the commercial regular engines to military ones.
Or does the carrier have to jump as well for squadron jumps?
 

Offline obsidian_green

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 04:00:45 PM »
The whole "squadron" must jump.

I like the 15,000-ton capacity hangars on your carrier. If your carrier is intended for independent operation without escort ships, you might want more AMM tubes and MFCs to go with it. I prefer higher fleet speeds for my combat carriers, but yours is primarily intended for survey missions. Here's my roughly equivalent-tech carrier, but I used them exclusively as warships.

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[CV] Europe Mod.A class Carrier    60 000 tons     1656 Crew     15992.88 BP      TCS 1200  TH 12000  EM 3000
10000 km/s    JR 6-750     Armour 6-136     Shields 100-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 182     PPV 49.68
Maint Life 5.7 Years     MSP 23637    AFR 202%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 1231    5YR 18466    Max Repair 2216 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 78   
Hangar Deck Capacity 10000 tons     Magazine 864   

J60000(6-750) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 60000 tons    Distance 750k km     Squadron Size 6
2000 EP/ E1 Solid Core AM Drive (6)    Power 2000    Fuel Use 12.5%    Signature 2000    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 5 750 000 Litres    Range 138.0 billion km   (159 days at full power)
Shields Xi-R300/360 (20)   Total Fuel Cost  300 Litres per hour  (7 200 per day)

Twin Gauss LV4-100/ TS40k/ ROF-5 Turret (3x10)    Range 40 000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
FC S02-R75k TS40000 (3)    Max Range: 150 000 km   TS: 40000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

ASM-SR4 [S6, WH16, R31] (144)  Speed: 77 600 km/s   End: 6.7m    Range: 31.1m km   WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 569/341/170

Active Search [PD] MR11.5mk-AM1.25-S1 (1)     GPS 48     Range 11.5m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

Compact ECCM-4 (3)         ECM 50

Strike Group
24x C/A-5C Aesculapian Strikefighter   Speed: 27027 km/s    Size: 4.44
10x C/F-6B Fer-de-lance Interceptor   Speed: 36144 km/s    Size: 6.64
2x C/RC-08B Swan Recon Fighter   Speed: 38216 km/s    Size: 3.14
1x SH/SR-4 Ratfish Rescue Shuttle   Speed: 24000 km/s    Size: 5
1x LR Sensor Module Mk.II Sensor Platform   Speed: 1 km/s    Size: 7.34
2x SH/SR-3B Rasbora Rescue Shuttle   Speed: 29702 km/s    Size: 4.04

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I'm not sure I could stand the amount of micromanagement a survey carrier would entail, but I haven't tried it. I designed armed survey ships that I could plop in a system and set to special orders. They're not intended to fight serious threats, but they often manage to hold their own when I'm smart about their use---I learned the hard way to NEVER take them into AMM range of any threat.

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[ExCS] Dumitru Prunariu class Survey Cruiser    20 000 tons     450 Crew     6712.62 BP      TCS 400  TH 720  EM 1500
7500 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 6-65     Shields 50-300     Sensors 168/24/3/3     Damage Control Rating 46     PPV 22.38
Maint Life 5.08 Years     MSP 5475    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 354    5YR 5305    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 306   

J20400(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 20400 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
1000/E.5/TR.25 EP Com. Solid Core AM Drive (3)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 2.21%    Signature 240    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1 500 000 Litres    Range 610.9 billion km   (942 days at full power)
Shields Xi-R300/360 (10)   Total Fuel Cost  150 Litres per hour  (3 600 per day)

Triple 15cm C6/ TS40k Far UV Laser Turret (1x3)    Range 300 000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 18-18     RM 5    ROF 5        6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 3 3
CIWS 10/5s- TS40k- ECCM2.5 (2x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 40000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
FC S08 R-300k TS-40000 (1)    Max Range: 600 000 km   TS: 40000 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83
P9.6-S.6 Solid-core Anti-matter Power Plant (2)     Total Power Output 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%

ML S3-RL300s [33% Reduction] (6)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 300
MFC 34mk/PD2.7mk-R1 [48/24] (2)     Range 34.6m km    Resolution 1
ACM-3 [S3, WH9, R30] (102)  Speed: 51 200 km/s   End: 9.8m    Range: 30.1m km   WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 358/215/107

Active Search[48/24] MR34mk/PD3.7mk-R1 (1)     GPS 144     Range 34.6m km    MCR 3.8m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH7-168 (1)     Sensitivity 168     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  168m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km
Advanced Gravitational Sensors (1)   3 Survey Points Per Hour
Advanced Geological Sensors (1)   3 Survey Points Per Hour

Compact ECCM-4 (3)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline Seolferwulf

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 06:22:32 PM »
You both mentioned that survey carriers involve alot of micromanagement.

When you set a default order and then split oder divide some ships from the TG they carry over the same orders.
So what I do for example for geological survey is simply set "survey nearest body" as the primary order and "follow higher fleet in system" as secondary and then divide all the geological survey fighters.
Afterwards remove the default orders from the carrier again and then let the survey fighters do their thing.
When they're done they'll return to the position of your carrier on their own due to the secondary order.
Once they're back just click "Recover Para" in your TG window and you're done.
This way you can pretty quickly do a complete survey of the system.

Is this what you mean by micromanagement?
It doesn't appear all that terrible to me.

Edit:
The current loadout of my survey TG is two carriers, 8 geo. survey, 8 jump-point survey, 4 EM scouting, and 12 thermal scouting fighters.
In addition to that 36 Cerberus and 12 shuttles (in case the carriers have to be abandoned).
During survey missions I've come across some spoilers but up to now they haven't even got a shot in, so I wasn't able to test the defence capabilities of my carriers.
What kind of defence and what amount of it do you usually target when you design a ship?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 07:15:02 PM by Seolferwulf »
 

Offline obsidian_green

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 10:48:43 PM »
You both mentioned that survey carriers involve alot of micromanagement.

When you set a default order and then split oder divide some ships from the TG they carry over the same orders.
So what I do for example for geological survey is simply set "survey nearest body" as the primary order and "follow higher fleet in system" as secondary and then divide all the geological survey fighters.
Afterwards remove the default orders from the carrier again and then let the survey fighters do their thing.
When they're done they'll return to the position of your carrier on their own due to the secondary order.
Once they're back just click "Recover Para" in your TG window and you're done.
This way you can pretty quickly do a complete survey of the system.

That makes sense. Maybe I'm overestimating the micromanagement involved. My next surveyors might need larger hangers---I can sublet the geo-survey mission to riders and let the survey cruiser handle the grav-survey mission.
 

Offline JacenHan

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Re: Utility Carrier
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2018, 12:24:53 AM »
I've been using survey carriers in my game and I am quite liking them. It's pretty simple to deploy all the shuttles with "Divide TG" and default orders, and recovering them is just a matter of using the "Land on assigned carrier" order. It's also way less dangerous to have the carrier sit on the jump point while the shuttles do all the scouting: its already saved one of my carriers already, and I even only had to replace a single shuttle. The only difficult thing I have found is designing decent survey craft that are still <500 tons, you might have some trouble getting the range to survey larger systems without ordering a refuel or needing the carrier to repair a sensor.
 

 

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