Aurora 4x
Other Games => Other Games => Topic started by: Texashawk on April 07, 2014, 02:10:37 AM
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Hey all,
Not sure if this is the right place for this sort of thing, but I wanted to show off some early screens of a 4X game I am designing called Imperia. Basically, instead of being an all-powerful emperor, you can only do so much per turn, and you need to work with your viceroys, primes (department heads), and governors as well as your people to make sure your orders are carried out correctly and timely. This will be a free game that I will be putting on SourceForge shortly and it will be an ongoing work in progress. So far, the universe generator works, the economy and character generator works, and the character interaction system is pretty much complete. While your empire more or less runs itself at the moment, you can influence your viceroys/governors to make changes to your planets/systems/sectors. This is version 0.190 (which should tell you how far I have to go) but it's already playable and once I get the economy better balanced I'll post for download!
Anyway, attached are some screens. Let me know what you think!
And Eric, if this is in the wrong place, please feel free to move/delete it.
Steve
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And here are a few more screens:
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Looks good. What's "Empire Posup"?
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Looks good. What's "Empire Posup"?
Thanks Eric!! Posup is short for "Popular Support"; it measures how much popular support you the emperor have in the empire with the 'common folk'. Characters also have a Posup that is scoped to their position; for example, a viceroy's Posup will only measure how his or her people on the planet feel about him, while a sector governor will measure everyone in their sector. Characters with a low Posup have a greater chance of 'bad things' happening to them. For the emperor, Posup is a large measure of their overall Power; the higher the Power of the Emperor, the more likely actions they take will be successful (this represents not wanting to appear to stand in the way of a popular and successful Emperor). This is a very different experience than a typical space 4X - it really is much more Crusader Kings than MOO in a way, especially early, when your character is young and actions are limited. Your actions define whether you rule in a nationalist, pragmatic, or tyrannical way and your influence pools reflect this over time.
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Maybe change it to "PopSup". That seems to be more readable. To me at least. :)
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IMPERIA CONCEPT: ADMIN RATING/EDICT SYSTEM
So in Imperia you as an emperor have an ADM (admin) rating that determines what you can do on any given turn. When you are just starting out as an 18-year old new emperor you might have 6-8 ADM points to use per turn (and they do not 'carry over').
There are essentially 3 ways you can use ADM: by contacting a character directly, by proposing an Edict, or by taking a personal action. It costs 1-2 ADM to contact a character directly, and is useful for asking for small 'tweaks' to how they manage their planet/system/sector. The downside is that they can say 'no' - after all, this isn't you proposing law, it's just you and a character having a conversation and you asking for something in a friendly manner. Edicts, by contrast, ARE law, and they MUST be followed. The downside to Edicts is that they cost a lot more ADM to propose (4-8), they cost planetary ADM to prepare and enact, and if a character who is along the possible 'chain' of implementing the Edict doesn't like you very much, they can make sure your Edict stays 'in committee' for quite a while. Here is a list of the types of domestic Edicts that can be enacted:
- Change Planet Name
Add Secondary Designation
Change/Assign Primary Designation
Prohibit Economic Sector Expansion
Eliminate Economic Sector
Build Starship Production Center
Encourage Tourism
Build Starbase
Change System Capital
Change Sector Capital
Add /Change System to Sector
Survey Planet
Colonize Planet
Survey System
Set Up Manufacturing Outpost
Set Up Agriculture Outpost
Set Up Scientific Outpost
Cede Garrison Control to Viceroy
Reclaim Garrison Control
Cede System Garrison to Sys Gov
Reclaim System Garrison Control
Designate Planet As Trade Hub
Designate Planet As Culture Hub
Build Starport
Abandon Planet
Abandon System
Abandon Sector
Declare Imperial Law
Survey Planet For Materials
Survey Planet For Minerals
As you can see, much more comprehensive than simply dealing with a character directly. Proclaiming an Edict and structuring it so that it will be successful is a large part of your success in Imperia.
Let's take a small example and say that you want to change a planet's name. In any other 4X, you simply type in the name and that's that. In Imperia, simply changing a name can have far-reaching effects (after all, how would we feel in America if the government suddenly wanted to change the country's name to, say, Goldberg?). The base ADM cost for this Edict is 5 ADM points and $5,000,000 to enact. A system capital might have 5-10 ADM and a sector capital might have 15+ ADM, so they could simply utilize their own planetary government to enact the change and that would be that. But what about a small, outlying planet that barely has a functional government? Say they have 2 ADM. They don't have enough ADM to enact the change themselves. What can you do?
- You can wait and let them build up their government sector until they have enough ADM to enact on their own, or...
- You can get their system capital or sector capital involved., or if the need is great enough, you can always use the Imperial Capital planet's ADM (which is always MUCH higher - 200-400 ADM)
Not all systems have a system capital - some sectors are one-system sectors and having a sector capital overrides a system capital. But if the system does have a system capital and they have some unallocated ADM, you can use some of theirs. It will be less efficient (it takes roughly 1.5 ADM points from a system capital per 1 ADM point you would spend on the planet) and it will take more time, but you can make it work. But... what if the system governor HATES YOUR GUTS!!! He or she can ensure that it takes YEARS to change that name!! So NOW what do you do?
You can go 'above their head' and use ADM from the sector capital (at even less efficiency and more time) and there is no guarantee the sector governor will be any more obliging, OR...
You can manipulate the system governor into doing what you want!! You can do this a lot of ways! You can...
- ..bribe them (maybe, if they're honest they will refuse and like you even less),
- ..or you can give them an Imperial title (this costs personal money and takes most of your ADM, but they will always love it),
- ..or you can create an informer network on the planet in order to discover secrets about the system governor and blackmail them,
- ..or you can respond to their needs and requests in line with their personality traits and behaviors to improve their loyalty,
- ..or you can attempt to remove them from their office and promote someone more loyal to you and more friendly to your policies (but this does not always work and is seen as Tyrannical)
- ..or you can have them assassinated, at great cost to your reputation and Tyrannical rating.
You have another ally at this point for particularly important Edicts: your Influence pools. You don't have to, but you can, spend 3 different types of Influence from your pools to speed up the Edict's process with different effects. The types are:
- Nationalist - this is your 'rally the Empire to the cause' influence. Basically, you are taking your Edict to the people, and if they love you, it is very effective.
- Pragmatic - this is your 'everyday' influence, working the backchannels of your government, and generally being a good politician. This pool's effects are abstracted mainly in your Power rating - your efforts have more weight if your have the Power to follow through. This will be your most common Influence, and the fastest to recharge.
- Tyrannical - this is your 'do it or I'll do something bad to you/your family/your planet' influence. Much more 'effective' short term, but can have far-reaching effects if used too often without the Power to back it up. Very small pool initially, but the way your emperor acts (badly and without morals) can add to this pool over time.
Alternatively, you can structure the Edict to use only planet and sector ADM, thus cutting out the system governor - but taking more time and ADM (total of 8 ADM and 5 months base vs. 6 ADM and 4 months base if the system gov was used) but if the sector governor LOVES you they might just speed the Edict through the planning and committee stages... actually saving more time in the end, even though it cost more ADM! But what if the sector capital's ADM is already being used for other Edicts and there isn't any more to spare?
Expand the sector government of course!! Just ask the planetary viceroy of the sector capital to expand the government, add more workers (at a cost, of course) expand the ADM rating for the sector capital, thus allowing your planet's change name request to be able to be added! If the viceroy is willing, of course...
However you do it, once you have the needed ADM in place, the Edict goes to 3 stages: planning, committee, and implementation. Depending on the loyalty and 2 other factors of each character in the chain, that time might be more or less in each stage. Each Edict has a primary and a secondary character attribute that contribute to the success and time required to implement. The primary attribute for changing a planet's name is Intelligence and the secondary one is Charisma. If your planetary viceroy and anyone else in the chain have good stats in these attributes (and they like you at least a little!) the time might be less. If you have an exceptionally stupid or boorish viceroy or governor, however, the time in planning and committee will be adversely affected proportional to the amount of ADM that character has in the Edict. For example, to get to the Edict's 5 ADM requirement, if you allocate 2 ADM from the planet and 3 ADM (but costing the system capital 5 ADM due to inefficiency) from the system capital, your planetary viceroy's stats will affect the time by 40% and your system governor's stats will affect the time by 60%.
So you've finally manipulated the Edict to be completed, and now the name change takes effect! You're done thinking about it, right?
Well...
First of all, your citizens might love the new name. In which case your retail sector will explode (people are buying T-shirts, bumper stickers, and other clever merchandise with the new planet's name). You may see a Posup boost. People may have a renewed sense of pride in their planet and their unrest may even drop! Sometimes, people may even migrate to your newly named planet because it's got such a cool name, affecting an entire system or sector economy! You're a hero, and your planetary viceroy is pretty pleased too!!
Or not.
Maybe they hate the name. Maybe they really liked the original name all along. Names have an intrinsic 'cultural value' attached to them and it is possible to get information on how the populace might react to a name change, you can do it anyway. But their Posup might go down. People might even leave the planet (rare, but possible) over it. Your viceroy won't be too pleased about having to change all the software and letterheads to the new planet name, so to speak. In any case, you have your new name, but you have some downside as well.
And all this from just changing a planet's name, which you would take 3 seconds to do in any other 4X game.
But that's Imperia, folks. Welcome to the big chair.
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Maybe change it to "PopSup". That seems to be more readable. To me at least. :)
Honestly, I go back and forth about it. Most people think it stands for Political Support at the moment. :P
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I like the idea, and I'll definately play around with it once a download version is available.
With something like the planetary name, will it have a sliding cost based on the age of the colony? I would think that if the planet was colonized last year, it'd be far easier to change the name of it, while if the colony has had its name for the last hundred years, you'd have to work far harder to change the name, and it would have further reaching consequences.
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Absolutely. Every Edict has a base cost and material need that changes based on the viceroy's stats and also the size of the planet. That is a good idea about how old a planet is influencing how easily the change occurs. I'll add it!! Thanks for the feedback!!
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FYI, I have added some more screenshots and info in a dedicated blog for Imperia located here: imperiagame.wordpress.com (http://imperiagame.wordpress.com). All further updates will be found here. Thanks!
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This game just looks awesome, I have allways wanted something that play like this. This would show how difficult it is to actually run a civilization where you can't act is if you were God pulling the strings.
A question...
Will you be able to have your character stand on the battle brigde of your flagship commanding your armada in battle like ancient emperors such as Alexander the Great? What I mean is what opportunity will there be for your character to influence and/or control actual battles in wars? This of course depend on how the ship mechanics will work in game and how involved you as a player will be in this.
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I like this concept, not like any other 4x where strategy is all about resource gathering or positioning of forces.
With all the complexity you've put into the edict system it looks like already you have a pretty good contender for a solid political simulator, I would like to see how this abundance of information affects the AI you plan on implementing.
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I actually think that simulation mechanic tend to favor the AI more than games with a more simplified and easily exploited system. There are generally less loopholes to exploit. There are also less obviously bad choices to make, most of the time there are just choices and they are equally good or bad, depending on how you see it. :)
At least that is what I think.
What I like with games such as this is how well they mimic real life events, things you can never do in most other games where populations and politician follow your orders like puppets. How you can just ignore the life of your soldiers or officers and use ships like cannon fodder without any sort of consequence is beyond me. People love to use democracy based philosophies in the game because they often give you the best economical growth and then just ignore basic human rights when it comes to show. It just doesn't rime well.
This is because games tend to just become number crunching and have no soul or empathy tied to them.
One thing I do like with Aurora though is that it does not pretend to do either, it is just a sandbox and the player can just role-play however he wants, limits is whatever the player decide on. Especially when you play multiple factions at the same time.
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Thanks Jorgen_CAB. I knew I couldn't be the only one who wished 4X games were a little more... realistic. I appreciate your kind words!
As far as tactical battles, while I will probably allow your persona to be at a battle, battle in Imperia will be very abstract, ala Paradox games. I want to focus mainly on the grand strategy and politics, and while that might be something added far, far (far) down the road, it's not a priority at present. That said, I do want some sort of control over combat, but every decision the player makes in Imperia I have to ask the overarching question: Would an emperor do this in their day-to-day tasks? If not, it gets streamlined.
-Steve
This game just looks awesome, I have allways wanted something that play like this. This would show how difficult it is to actually run a civilization where you can't act is if you were God pulling the strings.
A question...
Will you be able to have your character stand on the battle brigde of your flagship commanding your armada in battle like ancient emperors such as Alexander the Great? What I mean is what opportunity will there be for your character to influence and/or control actual battles in wars? This of course depend on how the ship mechanics will work in game and how involved you as a player will be in this.
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MarcAFK,
Thanks! It will be interesting to program the other empire AI, but honestly a large part of the 'AI' is already in the game in trying to stay ahead and thrive in your own empire! Once events and plots get added, it will add even more to the 'internal' aspect of the game, and at that point the game will be well enough balanced that adding additional empires should be pretty easy. The programming has been designed to essentially generate empires at will; in theory at this point I could generate several empires that run using the same rules and economies as the human empire but they would just 'sit there' as speed bumps without active plan programming. That will come as one of the last versions (probably .7+ or so). I hope that by using dynamic rules and reactions, the AI will be more 'fluid'. There is already some AI programmed with the empire - your viceroys will run the planets without your input, adjusting taxes, building and contracting economic sectors (that they want to support), controlling immigration, trading for materials and food, and building structures that they think they need (like a trade hub or starbase). At this point I'm not sure that I want to give them access to edicts - while you could override them it might be too much like whack-a-mole to delete and change them over 8-15 planets. We'll see.
-Steve
I like this concept, not like any other 4x where strategy is all about resource gathering or positioning of forces.
With all the complexity you've put into the edict system it looks like already you have a pretty good contender for a solid political simulator, I would like to see how this abundance of information affects the AI you plan on implementing.
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Thanks Jorgen_CAB. I knew I couldn't be the only one who wished 4X games were a little more... realistic. I appreciate your kind words!
As far as tactical battles, while I will probably allow your persona to be at a battle, battle in Imperia will be very abstract, ala Paradox games. I want to focus mainly on the grand strategy and politics, and while that might be something added far, far (far) down the road, it's not a priority at present. That said, I do want some sort of control over combat, but every decision the player makes in Imperia I have to ask the overarching question: Would an emperor do this in their day-to-day tasks? If not, it gets streamlined.
-Steve
I was not expecting tactical combat as we know it, perhaps just a way to somehow influence it with your emperor if you want to risk your life doing it.
I still hope that the abstraction at least include some interesting combat mechanics so there are some choices in what ship types you need and in what proportions. Anyway, it probably are some of the less important stuff in a game like this. :)
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FYI I have updated the blog to add an entry on how the economic system works.
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FYI, I have updated the imperiagame.wordpress.com (http://imperiagame.wordpress.com) blog. Since I will not always update this thread, I recommend following this blog if you want to keep up with Imperia's progress!
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Oh yes, there will be lots of opportunity for combat! You will still design ships and create mighty fleets of war, just more abstracted. You will be able to designate a heavy task force, say, and give your war Prime general parameters on how to outfit such. You will also be able to request and require that certain types of ships be researched and designed, depending on how you think a war should be fought. I'm a Honorverse aficionado so trust me when I say that military will be a big part of the package!! ;D
-Steve
I was not expecting tactical combat as we know it, perhaps just a way to somehow influence it with your emperor if you want to risk your life doing it.
I still hope that the abstraction at least include some interesting combat mechanics so there are some choices in what ship types you need and in what proportions. Anyway, it probably are some of the less important stuff in a game like this. :)
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I must say I'm pretty impressed with all the information you released so far. If you pull this project off as you seem to be doing you will have a gemstone in your hand from what I can tell. I'm also pleased that wars will require some afterthought and planning, not just build X number of ships and release them on the enemy.
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I've subscribed to the blog to keep up with this game - it sounds like it should be pretty awesome. If you ever need another alpha or beta tester, hit me up - I'd be glad to help.
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Jorgen_CAB,
I appreciate your faith! I will do my best to make this a fun and involving experience! By the way, I have updated the blog with the game's roadmap so you can get an idea of what is ahead. Thanks!
Steve
I must say I'm pretty impressed with all the information you released so far. If you pull this project off as you seem to be doing you will have a gemstone in your hand from what I can tell. I'm also pleased that wars will require some afterthought and planning, not just build X number of ships and release them on the enemy.
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Gyrfalcon,
Welcome aboard! ;D
Steve
I've subscribed to the blog to keep up with this game - it sounds like it should be pretty awesome. If you ever need another alpha or beta tester, hit me up - I'd be glad to help.
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Interestingly enough MOO3 alpha-version contains similar ADM system, but it was scraped prior to release.
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This looks interesting, I do definitely recommend abstracting the combat to the degree that you can.
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Alpha .225 is now up on SourceForge. Link is at imperiagame.wordpress.com!
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Alpha .226 is up. Here is the changelog:
Imperia V.226 Change Log
5.20.14
Fixes
* Fixed bug where deleting a system edict caused crash
* Fixed ‘rounding’ bug when adding Influence to an Edict
* Fixed rare bug where planets had identical populations and the Intel screen was accessed
* Fixed bug where crash occurs if you abandon a planet or system with active Edicts that are not completed that turn
* Fixed bug where viceroy would refuse to expand a sector based on the fact that the planet was losing money when it fact it was not
* Fixed bug where expanding a planet economy could cause the development level to go above the maximum
* Fixed bug where Edict ADM values in selection lists would not always match up with Edict Creation screen ADM values
* Fixed bug where if the system capital was abandoned and no other planet was in the sector, the sector would still remain active, even though there was no population, and the governors would still be assigned to an empty sector/system. Now all governors are removed from office, the sector is made inactive, and any money in the sector treasury goes into the Empire treasury.
* Fixed a few bugs relating to assassinations.
Changes/Additions
* Added full resolution support across all screens, including the planet screen
* Improved look of most resolutions by scaling all viewports and graphics more precisely – continued work on this will be ongoing
* Added some of Nadia’s awesome planets, especially gas giants
* Dimmed out buttons on button bar which don’t function yet to minimize confusion
* Changed economic model to now take planetary subsidies if needed from sector treasuries first before the Imperial treasury. This will promote developing stronger sectors while penalizing weak economic sectors in assisting their system’s projects, since if they go broke the sector will now receive a subsidy from the Empire with a small efficiency penalty depending on distance
* With this change, added AI for sector governors to adjust the sector tax as needed, depending on their intelligence, greed, and other traits
* Added right-click on system will center functionality on the quadrant map. This is experimental and may be removed or optioned depending on feedback.
* Added assigning system to new sector edict, and added UI functionality to allow other edicts with secondary choices (such as designations)
* Added new planetary edict – change primary designation
* Added 2 new designations – government nexus and material production world
* Added more system and planet names, and eliminated duplicate planet/system names - may have fixed a bug related to duplicate names
* Added basic designation effects – i.e. heavy production worlds now have negative terraforming modifiers, but greater wages, etc.
* Added attempt to assassinate character action – must have active informer network and costs 5 Tyrannical Influence. More informers improves chance; a high character Power and Intelligence lowers it. May take several turns to resolve.
* Some small calculating efficiency gains, especially between turns
* Added check to potentially add ADM for emperor every year
* Added more reactions to events and emperor Edicts that affect governors and viceroys, especially changing system assignments
* Some small graphics improvements/changes
Balance
* Some cost/edict balances; some items cost less ADM, some more (a few were 1 ADM for testing, those have been changed)
* Material production is now considerably more profitable per mTon (to counterbalance increased costs for setting up and maintaining manufacturing) ($10 vs. $4)
* Science production is more costly due to impending Science system addition, prepare for costs!
* Planet ADM has been tweaked upward for sectors and the Imperial capital
* ADM efficiency has been increased from 6:1 to 5:1 for Empire ADM used for planetary Edicts
* Increased empire possible minimum Base Engine Range so that missions are easier (will probably change once science is available, as this will be available to improve)
* Significantly increased effect of Loyalty on Edict completion. Now you will absolutely have to get your leaders into line somehow if you want your more advanced Edicts to be completed this decade. ?
* Lowered cost of surveying and exploring to encourage it.
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I love CK2(and Paradox games in general), and I love vaguely-medieval-empires-in-SPAAAAACE settings like Dune or Battletech, so this sounds like a great concept to me. Definitely going to try it out.
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So...I tried out the game for a little bit. I get the mechanics of the game, but I'm honestly not sure where to start within the game. My best guess is that I need to set up trade networks? But building starbases takes a really long time, and the planets eventually run out of materials.
On another note, the game crashed when I abandoned a planet. I guess I won't be doing that for the time being.
Edit: While nobody's posting, I had better use this post for my complaints about the game.
If a planet has a "terraforming advised" bio rating, population support drops rapidly. What does the bio rating even mean, and why would a low one cause enough unrest for the populace to start revolting? It feels a little unfair because I always start out with several planets with a bad bio rating AND unrealistically high unemployment (An 80% unemployment rate?!).
There seems to be no way to reduce sector taxes, which end up accounting for the majority of my expenses. I've seen sector taxes of 33% or higher, with my population getting pissy because of it. Wait a second, how come income taxes raise money, but system and sector taxes reduce it? It would make more sense if all three taxes gave you (and the viceroys/governors) income, while expenses paid to keep the planet's facilities running reduced it. There's also no option to tell viceroys to raise taxes...
Planet populations are very small. Even New Terra seems to always be below 10,000,000 people. I suggest that you ramp up starting populations by, say, 10x the normal amount. If that would cause too many pops (which are 5,000 people each) to be in the game, then increase the pop size to 50,000.
If a planet runs out of materials, Edicts for construction can still be passed and go into effect.
I don't have the option to add secondary designations to any planet, even when it has room to add one. Also, sometimes there's a green arrow pointing down next to the Edict selection, but clicking it does nothing. Is it supposed to do something?
I guess my problem with the game is that whenever I try to improve one planet, the rest of the other planets end up deteriorating.
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Psi - good feedback. I responded to you on the Imperia forums.
-Steve
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FYI, I have released build .300. Notable additions include save/load functionality and error logging, to help track down any remaining issues. Get it in the usual place!
-Steve
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I have no idea what the frakk is going on in this game but i love it already.. :P
>tfw spreadsheet/complicated games addict.
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I have no idea what the frakk is going on in this game but i love it already.. :P
>tfw spreadsheet/complicated games addict.
Awesome! This might help, however! http://imperia5x.wikidot.com/start (http://imperia5x.wikidot.com/start)
And feel free to check out imperia.boards.net (http://imperia.boards.net) if you have questions!
-Steve