2 Stage Missile Won't Fly!

[Bandus (OP)]

I'm trying to figure out why a 2 stage missile I have designed will not go after a target. The scenario is this: There is binary star system with the secondary star being about 2000m KM from the primary star. I have colonies around the primary star system and decided to build a PDC capable of launching a large 2 stage missile that would have the fuel and speed to transport a sensor bouy out to planets around the secondary star system. So, the designs are as follows:

PDC

Tarifa class Planetary Surveillance Base    2,250 tons     40 Crew     535.32 BP      TCS 45  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 5-15     Sensors 1/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 18.48
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 264   

Ravenki-SBDV-Launcher-001 (1)    Missile Size 56    Rate of Fire 16800
Ravenki-SBDV-FCS-001 (1)     Range 3,227.0m km    Resolution 155
Ravenki-SBDV-001 (4)  Speed: 10,800 km/s   End: 3.3d    Range: 3103.9m km   WH: 0    Size: 55.7    TH: 36 / 21 / 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 1 sections

Ravenki-SBDV-001

Missile Size: 55.7 MSP  (2.785 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 10800 km/s    Engine Endurance: 79.8 hours   Range: 3,103.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 53.4645
Second Stage: MAGDY-Sensor Bouy-004-ER x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 3 days   Overall Range: 3103.9m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 108%   3k km/s 30%   5k km/s 21.6%   10k km/s 10.8%
Materials Required:    17.2368x Boronide   28.7277x Uridium   7.5x Gallicite   Fuel x1750

Development Cost for Project: 5346RP

So, the PDC has a launcher large enough for the ordinance, a FCS that covers the target area. The 2 stage missile itself has enough fuel to get to the destination. I set a waypoint at the destination body and fire. When I fire the message indicates "Tarifa 001 - Ravenki-SBDV-FCS-001- targeting Waypoint #1 at 0k km." Then the missile just sits. So despite being able to target the waypoint, it seems like Aurora thinks the waypoint is at the same location as the launch and I'm not sure why. I will say I do not have active sensors that reach the target, however, they are active sensors near the launch location so I'd think it would travel to at least that boundary.  Since I'm firing at a waypoint though, do I even need active sensors covering it?

Anyhow, I'm unclear as to what could be causing this. Thanks for any help!

[Bandus (OP)]

I still have been unable to figure out the issue here. Any suggestions at all would be appreciated!

[strych90]

I wish I could help you, especially since you're using the idea I proposed (WOOT), but I really have no experience with two-stage missiles or firing missiles at anything other than an enemy ):

[SteelChicken]

Wish I could help, I have no experience with dual-stages or sensor probes.  I will say using way points for ASM missiles is problematic.  Behavior is inconsistent and hard to plan for.

[sublight]

The only thing I can suggest is double checking that you didn't accidentally make the way-point centered on your home planet.

It's been a while so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but the last time I used a geosurvey drone I:
1) click on the destination
2) clicked create waypoint on last from waypoint tab
3) assigned a single missile tube to the ICBM missile complex fire control
4) assigned the new waypoint as the fire control's target
5) opened fire.

Of course, that was a single stage design back in 6.0. I'll see if 2-stage designs in 6.2 work any differently, but it will be a few hours before I have access to my Aurora computer.

[Bandus (OP)]

@Sublight - Your steps are essentially exactly what I have done at this point. I deleted the waypoint and recreated it just to confirm no mistakes there. No dice.

[Erik L]

Try targeting the planet instead of a waypoint?

[Bandus (OP)]

@Erik - Planetary bodies have never shown up in my fire control even if I uncheck "only show hostile contacts." How do I target bodies using it, please?

[Erik L]

@Erik - Planetary bodies have never shown up in my fire control even if I uncheck "only show hostile contacts." How do I target bodies using it, please?

Might be senility creeping in.

[Bandus (OP)]

I went back and checked the combat assignments overview (F8) as well as the task groups (F12) and individual ships (F6) window but can't see a way to target planetary bodies in any of them. You can't give orders to PDCs in the task groups screen like with ships else I would give it an order to launch missiles at. In desperation, I redesigned the booster stage to have its own active sensor to see if that changes anything.

Any other suggestions on this would be appreciated!

[Steve Walmsley]

You can't target planets directly. Using a waypoint attached to the planet is the only way.

I'm not sure what is happening here. There is one thing I would change though, which is to change the seperation range to zero. Otherwise the buoy will be released before you get to the target.

Steve

[Bandus (OP)]

Hey Steve, thanks for the reply! I did change that for the newly designed missile and am currently moving it to the PDC to see if that helps.  I can tell you that with the previous iteration of the missile, posted above, I was absolutely 100% targeting a waypoint attached to the planet. Yet I received the message I posted above: "Tarifa 001 - Ravenki-SBDV-FCS-001- targeting Waypoint #1 at 0k km." The waypoint was 100% in the right spot though.

On a side note, it seems to me that I had problems with ships traveling in this solar system at one point. I had long range exploration scouts and when I sent them towards this secondary star the distance and ETA seemed to increase as opposed to decrease. I'm going to try dust of that design and see if that is the case as that may be playing into this if so.

[sublight]

Say, what happens if you mash the 1-day time increment a few times?

I ran a few tests with short-range drones ( less than 500m km, less than 5 day endurance) and they appear to be functioning as expected, but when I made an ultra-long range drone (40b km+, 365 day+) things started acting funny. They wouldn't move if the time steps were too short!

Ultra-Long Drone
Missile Size: 9MSP(0.45 HS)   Warhead: 0
Speed: 1400 km/s   Engine Endurance: 9,051.4 hours   Range: 45,619.1m km
Second Stage: Size 2 Buoy x1

500km target: 20 minute increment required to move.
1.6b km target: 20 minute increment required
5.5b km target: 3 hour increment required
10.6b km target: 3 hour increment required
38b km target: 1 day increment required


Nothing scientific, just some rather unexpected independent observations.

[Bandus (OP)]

The maximum interval I can advance by is 1 day at this point due to what I think is NPR activity. I am forcing 1 day pulses because if I use automatic the pulses drop to around 6-8 hours. Ironically, the NPR activity is the genesis for this whole debacle. I'm pretty sure that the NPR activity in question is a NPR at these planets I'm trying to reach constantly scanning my ships entering and leaving the system.

I tried again with the variant booster stage which had it's own stage and received the same exact message with the same exact result, unfortunately. I think I'll have to scrap this idea and simply design an extremely efficient, slow engine.

[Bandus (OP)]

So, I think somehow the actual solar system I was originally attempting this in is bugged. I tried building a ship capable of launching a 2 stage missile design, brought it to the intended solar system and tried again with no effect. I received a message indicating that the ship was preparing to fire its weapons, but wasn't ready yet. I then moved the ship to an adjoining system and was able to launch the 2 stage missile at a waypoint with no problem at all and it worked exactly as intended. I'm not sure how to report a bug like this though, would the bug report sub-forum still apply?