Author Topic: Jump Drive mechanics  (Read 21263 times)

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Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2011, 02:08:32 PM »
As said, I already admitted it's not a good concept.
This would essentially be like a Hyperjump from the system to the same system, with more control, but possibility of being shot at.
Functioning like current hyperdrives, you wouldn't be able to fire, you have no sensors, and you can't take the speedbonus to Inter-system jumps.

It's mainly because; why can I jump to another system but not on the other side of the same dual star system?

Edit: Also, because everyone and their close relatives ask for a use for small craft. Not that I would.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 05:57:43 PM by UnLimiTeD »
 

Offline PTTG (OP)

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2011, 02:26:37 PM »
That's... actually a good question.

If the two hyper limits touch, of course, then the most efficient way to move between stars would be to go straight. If they don't, then it might make sense to simply use the regular hyper drives with a special "in-system jump" order.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2011, 10:27:36 AM »
One other thought that just came to mind was in-system jumps. Will these be possible outside of the normal jump limits in a system ie to allow a ship to move to another star that is 30bn k away etc?

If this is the case it could mean that the drive flare penalty etc becomes a realistic one again as defending forces could position fleets outside of the jump boundry ready to make an in-system jump to the drive flare location which by default will also be outside of the jump boundry? With a system of errors in exit location, speed and direction this could lead to some very interesting encounters! It might also be a capability that you select when designing the engine with respective increases in costs / research requirements?

At the moment I am assuming no in-system jumps. Bear in mind that you will be able to build ships capable of attaining much higher in-system speeds than in Standard Aurora, even though on average speeds will be lower. With very fuel efficient engines you will be able to reach a considerable speed, even if the rate of acceleration isn't very high.

Steve
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2011, 03:30:17 PM »
Yes, but it will still take you forever if that binary has a distance of 120 AU.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2011, 03:35:08 PM »
Yes, but it will still take you forever if that binary has a distance of 120 AU.


Not really, because in Standard Aurora hyper drive allowed 10x speed outside the hyper limit. Now you can go faster than that without hyper engines and within the hyper limit

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2011, 03:51:51 PM »
Not really, because in Standard Aurora hyper drive allowed 10x speed outside the hyper limit. Now you can go faster than that without hyper engines and within the hyper limit

Steve

Actually thinking more about it, this may not be the case after the exhaust velocity change. Even so, if you get a freighter up to 10,000 km/s for example, it would only take about three weeks to cover 120 AU.

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2011, 04:34:49 PM »
That's... actually a good question.

If the two hyper limits touch, of course, then the most efficient way to move between stars would be to go straight. If they don't, then it might make sense to simply use the regular hyper drives with a special "in-system jump" order.

The more I think about this, the more I am considering changing my mind. The isn't really a good reason not to allow "in-system" FTL jumps, apart from a little extra complexity. I would still restrict it to jumping from one star to another though, rather than jumps around the periphery of a system. I guess I should also allow a jump straight to a B component from another system. Although there is then a question of whether B components need their own survey locations. Hmm!

Steve
 

Offline PTTG (OP)

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2011, 04:51:45 PM »
You could make it so that if two stars are more than ~120 Au apart, they are in fact separate "systems". If they're much less than that distance, then jumping between them is pointless.
 

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2011, 10:43:39 AM »
I was thinking (and this is probably a less that stella idea) you could make hyper tunnels between close stars. From what i understand the hyperlimit is caused by the interfearence of the stars gravity, two or more stars could cause a reduced disterbance zone between them and a safe(ish) path between them that can only be accessed close to the star (jump near star, sucked down path, spat out at other star) this would give an easyish (programming method) to travel to binary ect. stars with hyperdrives, while alowing/ forcing the choice of direct travel over indirect but posibly faster method (the quickest path is not always a stright line).
 

Offline Yonder

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2011, 11:03:30 AM »
I was thinking (and this is probably a less that stella idea) you could make hyper tunnels between close stars. From what i understand the hyperlimit is caused by the interfearence of the stars gravity, two or more stars could cause a reduced disterbance zone between them and a safe(ish) path between them that can only be accessed close to the star (jump near star, sucked down path, spat out at other star) this would give an easyish (programming method) to travel to binary ect. stars with hyperdrives, while alowing/ forcing the choice of direct travel over indirect but posibly faster method (the quickest path is not always a stright line).

Actually you may be able to do a similar methodology to deter people from making really far jumps, if there was some sort of "link" between closer stars that increased the speed multiplier in that pathway, so that traveling to a star 10x farther away took 30x longer or something like that.

Another thing you could do is introduce hyperspace drag. Have the ship start out at it's initial speed X multiplier, and then constantly slow down, maybe to zero, or maybe down to some minimum like 10x the speed of light or something that would be useless for combat fleets, but would let you send One-Way probes or something like that.

The problem with that is the fuel situation, when you arrived at your destination would you be going your original speed, or if you slowed down 20% in hyperspace would your real-space speed be 20% less as well? I guess that doesn't matter all that much though, if you are moving through the system that would be annoying, since you'd have to spend fuel and speed up again, however most of the time you are actually probably going to a system to stay there, so you'd want to slow down upon entry anyways.

And actually, slowing down incoming fleets has the benefit of partially dissuading a drive-by genocide... if you know (and you would, because it would be distance based, and you know where the target star is, so when you set up the jump it would tell you your ETA and in-system speed on arrival) that you are going to slow down 20% in hyperspace and you want to make a (say) 5000 km/s attack run, you either have to accelerate up to 6250 km/s in the previous system, or make the jump at 5000 km/s, arrive at 4000 km/s and accelerate up to 5000 km/s in system. That costs 250 km/s less in delta-V, but the in system acceleration makes it more likely that the enemy will see you. Lastly you can just accept the slower 4000 km/s attack run, which gives the enemy more time to prepare after you show up on sensors, and makes all of your mass-based weaponry less dangerous.
 

Offline PTTG (OP)

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2011, 11:54:34 AM »
If maintenance failures are checked on all drives that are actively jumping, then there would be a definite, if soft, cap on the maximum distance you could jump. The largest side effect would be that civilian jump vessels would need to have enough maintenance supplies to keep operating.

Of course failures of the drive could result in everything from safely arriving in whatever system you're closest to at the time to getting torn to sub-molecular shreds by an uncontrolled drop from jump. Don't worry, you'll hardly have time to feel the extraordinary pain.

It may be that short jumps are more likely to be completed successfully without permanent drive damage. Note that it would be odd for MS to be shared in a task group while jumping, so onboard supplies would make sense.

I do like the concept of jumping to vastly distant star systems as a last-ditch effort, so perhaps this combined with a certain amount of deviation from course, perhaps even with TGs getting split up and arriving in multiple nearby star systems.
 

Offline fcharton

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2011, 08:02:09 AM »
Quote from: Yonder link=topic=4413. msg44909#msg44909 date=1325005410
Actually you may be able to do a similar methodology to deter people from making really far jumps, if there was some sort of "link" between closer stars that increased the speed multiplier in that pathway, so that traveling to a star 10x farther away took 30x longer or something like that.

Instead of changing speed, could you handle that by using a "bearing fluctuation" factor.  For instance, any move through hyperspace cause a ship bearing to drift randomly (smaller amounts of angular drift could be bought through research).  For very long jumps, this could cause a ship to arrive light years from its intended target, at full speed.  Not something you'd loook forward to.

This might help solve the "holocaust drive by" problem.  Even over small distances, getting out of hyperspace (far away from the system) aligned with a specific planet (the drive by target) would be almost impossible.

Francois
 

Offline procyon

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2012, 06:20:55 AM »
Quote from: Steve Walmsley
At the moment I am assuming no in-system jumps. Bear in mind that you will be able to build ships capable of attaining much higher in-system speeds than in Standard Aurora, even though on average speeds will be lower. With very fuel efficient engines you will be able to reach a considerable speed, even if the rate of acceleration isn't very high.

Perhaps to limit in system jumps you could place a minimum time in hyperspace.  Just do this with the 'prep' time.  It may take 24 (or perhaps way more) hours to prep for a jump, and the same amount of time to prep the drive for the 'drop out' of hyperspace.

You would also likely need a minimum initial velocity to even make the jump into hyperspace (which would also limit the 'mini' jumps), and this could make preparing for the jump take even longer.  This would definitely limit the 'jump away' from combat syndrome.  You would need to make sure that you are lined up with where you want to go or your jump away from combat will likely take you to the middle of nowhere.

EDIT

Of course this raises the question of 'can you jump to the middle of nowhere, and then jump again from that point' to gain a specific orientation to your 'attack run.'
I would rather see jumps limited to 'star to star'.  Only gravity wells allow the use of the hyperdrive or some such justification.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 06:34:44 AM by procyon »
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Offline Yonder

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2012, 09:01:26 AM »
Only gravity wells allow the use of the hyperdrive or some such justification.

The justification could be that while hyperdrive engines allow you to enter hyperspace, they don't let you leave hyperspace, only the gravity field of a star can pull you out. This was actually the mechanic that I was assuming in most of my discussions, so that if you missed a star from doing a risky jump you'd have to keep on going until you hit the next system. In real 3D space this would be a huge deal, but in 2D space you're bound to hit another system reasonably soon.

Doing this sort of system would also damp down on some of the longer range jumps, depending on the density of the map, because you wouldn't be able to jump through another system on the way to a farther system.
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: Jump Drive mechanics
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2012, 03:35:31 PM »
That'll work.
Having minimum jump times is impractical, as on high tech levels it forces you to do really slow jumps compared to what you're actually capable of.