Author Topic: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer  (Read 3595 times)

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Offline Hydrofoil (OP)

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(Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« on: January 03, 2014, 05:31:35 PM »
Hi Guys I thought id run a ship design past you guys as im still new to the game and ive not had much chance to test out military designs yet.   This is an early Game Missile Destroyer meant for system defence its my games first military ship design.   Can I get some Critique on the design what I can improve whats bad yadda yadda. 

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Broadsword class Missile Destroyer    8 200 tons     183 Crew     854.3 BP      TCS 164  TH 200  EM 0
1219 km/s     Armour 3-36     Shields 0-0     Sensors 25/25/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 25
Maint Life 3.46 Years     MSP 1065    AFR 537%    IFR 7.5%    1YR 136    5YR 2041    Max Repair 50 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 10 months    Spare Berths 2    
Magazine 475    

SysTech Jovian 100 EP MNTE (2)    Power 100    Fuel Use 72%    Signature 100    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 800 000 Litres    Range 24.4 billion km   (231 days at full power)

CIWS-50 (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 5000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Raptor Size 5 Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 150
Prism Missile Fire Control FC15-R100 (1)     Range 15.0m km    Resolution 100
Captcha Missile Fire Control FC2-R3 (1)     Range 2.6m km    Resolution 3
Striker Mk I Anti-ship Missile (192)  Speed: 2 000 km/s   End: 2.9d    Range: 497.7m km   WH: 3    Size: 2.5    TH: 6/4/2

Active Search Sensor MR5-R100 (1)     GPS 1000     Range 5.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH5-25 (1)     Sensitivity 25     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-25 (1)     Sensitivity 25     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km

So I went back to the drawing board with the advice and came up with this it took a few months of research into the new technology and I currently have a new engine currently being researched which will be put into the next refit.  I also redesigned the Striker Missile to get much more power out of it it now matches the launcher size also so it has been doubled in size.  Unfortunately there is no way for me to reduce the range of the missile without making it massive.  How ever i dont have enough of them yet to fit out my new Refits they will come into service as soon as they are available.

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Broadsword A1 class Missile Destroyer    7 800 tons     180 Crew     847.8 BP      TCS 156  TH 200  EM 0
1282 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 25/25/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 25
Maint Life 5.41 Years     MSP 1136    AFR 243%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 65    5YR 975    Max Repair 50 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 10 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 475   

SysTech Jovian 100 EP MNTE (2)    Power 100    Fuel Use 72%    Signature 100    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 800 000 Litres    Range 25.6 billion km   (231 days at full power)

Raptor Size 5 Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 150
Clark 77 Missile Fire Control FC20-R12 (1)     Range 20.8m km    Resolution 12
Striker Mk I Anti-ship Missile (192)  Speed: 2 000 km/s   End: 2.9d    Range: 497.7m km   WH: 3    Size: 2.5    TH: 6/4/2

Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH5-25 (1)     Sensitivity 25     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-25 (1)     Sensitivity 25     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km

The Striker Mk II:

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Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 1     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 5000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 24.5 hours   Range: 440.4m km
Cost Per Missile: 1.3125
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 50%   3k km/s 10%   5k km/s 10%   10k km/s 5%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   0.3125x Gallicite   Fuel x1250
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 06:47:55 AM by Hydrofoil »
 

Offline joeclark77

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2014, 05:42:57 PM »
Some things are very good here -- good range for an early ship, good maintenance life, good magazine size.
A few things I notice:  your Striker missile goes VERY slow, and flies up to 500 million kilometers, but you can't sight targets more than 10mkm away with your larger sensor.  You have two active sensors with the same resolution.  The MR5 does nothing for you.  You have a resolution 3 missile fire control... presumably intended for anti-fighter or anti-missile use, but you have no active scanner to detect these targets, nor are you carrying an anti-missile.  (This would usually be a size 1 or smaller, warhead 1 missile with very high speed.)  If you really want to use anti-missile missiles, you should have an active sensor and a missile fire control with resolution 1.  If you don't intend to shoot at fighters or missiles, then drop the second fire control.  (A second fire control with resolution 16-20, however can be useful for targeting FACs.)

So, my recommendations:
1. Design an active sensor with resolution 160.  Make it size 4 or more, and see what kind of range you can get from it.
2. Make a missile fire control, also resolution 160, and whatever size you need to have the same max range as your sensor.
3. Redesign your missile.  It should be about half engines (2.5MSP), and they should have the highest power multiplier you have the tech for.  Only add enough fuel to reach the maximum range of your sensor and fire control.  The rest of the MSP should be mostly warhead.  With a size 5 missile you should be able to get WH4 easily, and maybe WH9 (squares are best).  Only allocate agility points to round the missile out to size 5.
4. Repeat the above steps with a resolution 1 sensor if you want to carry anti-missiles.  The AMMs should be size 1, warhead 1, pretty short range, and lots of speed.



 

Offline joeclark77

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2014, 05:46:13 PM »
Also, you should probably drop the CIWS and replace it with a gauss cannon turret and fire control.  That will be slightly more tonnage, but it will defend other ships in the fleet.  If more than one ship are going to be flying together, mutual protection from gauss turrets is better than each ship having a CIWS that doesn't cover the others.
 

Offline Hydrofoil (OP)

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2014, 06:10:41 PM »
Thanks for the Advice Im glad to hear I at least got some bits right, ill get to work on your suggestions really helped alot thanks.
 

Offline Nightstar

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, 06:36:08 PM »
22 HS armor ($108)
40 HS engine ($100)
16 HS fuel ($160 + fuel)
30 HS mag ($150 + ammo)
25 HS launcher ($100)
13? HS sensors ($80?)
+ MFC, CIWS, engineering, and crew.

Your first problem is that the size of your missiles and the size of your launchers do not match. Your missiles are only HALF the size of the launchers! Use smaller launchers, or bigger missiles.

Second, that missile is sloooow. At this tech, I'd use a 1.5 MSP max engine power modifier missile engine, 1 MSP of warhead, whatever fuel you need, rest agility, for a 3 MSP missile. Then I'd switch to using size three launchers. You probably want an integer size missile one way or another, to fit your launchers.

Your active sensors have the same resolution, and so are redundant. That's not ALWAYS bad, but in this case, it is. Use one active sensor.

Your MFCs do not match your sensors. Generally, you want MFCs with the same range and resolution as your active sensor(s). I'd put both sensor and MFC at 30 mkm range or so, but higher is fine. 100 res is actually a fair default.

Passive thermal sensors are pretty useless at this stage of the game. Ditch it.

The CIWS is junk at this tech. Seriously. Add more armor instead.

You seem to be using an additional maintenance storage module. Don't. Add more engineering spaces instead.

I personally would give up on the idea of speed and use a commercial engine, but I don't know your particular situation. The engines aren't wrong as is, just maybe not worth the cost.

Um, I think that's most of the major mistakes.  Let us see what you refit it to.  :)
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2014, 07:19:47 PM »
Thanks for the Advice Im glad to hear I at least got some bits right, ill get to work on your suggestions really helped alot thanks.

There is no real "right" answer. There are effective answers ;)

Offline joeclark77

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 08:29:41 PM »
Oh, I completely missed that the size of the missiles didn't match the launcher! One thing I like to do nowadays is use 75pct size launchers. It halves your rate of fire but you get bigger volleys or smaller ships, whichever you prefer.
 

Offline Hydrofoil (OP)

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2014, 06:48:30 AM »
I have Updated the OP with my new redesigned Ship
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2014, 09:28:21 AM »
Your missile is still way out of line with your fire control. You have 20m km reach with the fire control, but 440m km reach with the missile. Reduce the endurance until you have 30m or so range (gives you a bit of wiggle room in engagements). Put the extra in engines and warhead.

Offline Hydrofoil (OP)

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2014, 11:21:22 AM »
Your missile is still way out of line with your fire control. You have 20m km reach with the fire control, but 440m km reach with the missile. Reduce the endurance until you have 30m or so range (gives you a bit of wiggle room in engagements). Put the extra in engines and warhead.

Doing this increases the missile size above what my size 5 launcher can handle ill continue to play around with it but I cant seem to get the range down further than that.
 

Offline Nightstar

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2014, 12:11:07 PM »
You can reduce the fuel your missile carries.
 

Offline Hydrofoil (OP)

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2014, 01:08:28 PM »
You can reduce the fuel your missile carries.

Okay managed to get it to get it down to a range matching my fire control with a little wiggle room beyond. Ive also upgraded it with my new Nuclear pulse missile engine tech to give it a grand speed of Speed: 7900 km/s

Striker Mk IV:
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 4.95 MSP  (0.2475 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 1.4     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 7900 km/s    Engine Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 29.6m km
Cost Per Missile: 1.5876
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 79%   3k km/s 20%   5k km/s 15.8%   10k km/s 7.9%
Materials Required:    1.1x Tritanium   0.4876x Gallicite   Fuel x125
 

Offline 3_14159

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2014, 01:42:04 PM »
I believe your problem lies in the tech level for maximum engine power multiplier.
While this increases your fuel consumption to very high levels (potentially; double the engine power mod means nearly six times the fuel consumption), it is really necessary for missiles.
I'd advise you to post your missile's MSP distribution (fuel, warhead, agility) together with the engine design specs. That'd be helpful for further advice.
 

Offline joeclark77

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2014, 04:18:53 PM »
What's your warhead tech? I'm guessing it's 3x MSP and you have 1MSP dedicated to warhead. Try 1.334 MSP for the warhead, a 3.5MSP engine with the maximum power multiplier, and 0.166MSP for fuel.
 

Offline Hydrofoil (OP)

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Re: (Early Game) Broadsword Missile Destroyer
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2014, 04:23:51 PM »
What's your warhead tech? I'm guessing it's 3x MSP and you have 1MSP dedicated to warhead. Try 1.334 MSP for the warhead, a 3.5MSP engine with the maximum power multiplier, and 0.166MSP for fuel.

My warhead is on the second tier tech "levitated pit" or something along those lines I managed to get it down to a range of 20.9m Km it also has a strength 4 warhead now.