C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions

[lupin-de-mid]

In Honorverse they fly on 80% of full power (except in emergencies)
So full death of all crew on ship is . . .   mmm . . .  nice bonus for boarding  teams of wininners.
But 25% of acceleration boost there is slightly more than 25% of speed increase here in Aurora.
Numbers definitely should be tuned

[JustAnotherDude]

Perhaps a delay in activation for the tuners, to make it possible to catch an opponent off guard before they boost off? Attach it to a tech line, starting at like a two minutes and going down to 15 seconds. This also solves the issue of having a faster opponent always able to win beam, because if you activate your boost first they can't immediately respond. This seems like a practical, interesting solution to several issues at once.

[Garfunkel]

I don't think this would add much of usefulness. As others said, speeds are nowhere near equal in Aurora, not even among same engine generation ships of roughly the same size. Let's say it's a 20% speed increase with engine tuners which sounds reasonable but,

Ship A is 2500 km/s whereas Ship B is 3000 km/s. Yeah, ship A could now maintain distance to ship B but couldn't escape. And that's a really small speed difference in the first place. Could be that ship A is 5000 km/s and ship B is 8777 km/s - now 20% speed increase for ship A makes no difference whatsoever, except for a very specific situation where you have relief ships coming in just close enough that the longer time for ship B to close the distance makes a difference.

Another thing is missiles. Now that engines are unified across all sizes, it means that missiles should get tuning as well. That's not a bad thing, increased last minute acceleration is a staple of Sci-Fi and it could make PD a little bit more exciting. But in Starfire tuning makes a difference because missiles are so short ranged, whereas even in C# Aurora, we're talking about tens of million of kilometres with just normal ASM. Whether the target moves 20% slower or faster makes no difference in that scenario.

If it's not a difficult thing to add, then yeah more options is better than less options, but I foresee a situation where beam ships always have them but there's no point in putting them on anything else, except maybe fast scouts. What's the point of a module where its inclusion is a no-brainer? At least with ECM and ECCM, there are ways to around them so while useful, they are not mandatory. With engine tuners, they definitely were mandatory in Starfire according to the AARs I've read here, and that might happen easily in Aurora too.

[JustAnotherDude]

The obvious solution, in my mind, is just to make the tuner more powerful. Also, why not, instead of having a single component to increase speed by a percentage, just have a "Booster" component that acts as a very powerful, very fuel inefficient engine with a limited use period. That seems the more flexible system. You could even have it so that you could decide the speed multiplier, size and fuel efficiency like a normal engine but also pick the duration, as a size/cost multiplier.

[QuakeIV]

For me the idea of burning a lot more fuel and steadily damaging the engines is a rather fun way to handle a speed boost, since I think it would better depict a low tech race trying to catch a higher tech one.  "sir we are measuring a 80% increase in enemy engine power" >one of the enemy ships explodes into a million pieces "they cant keep this up forever..."

I feel the need to mention that since I think 'tuners' without tradeoffs like that, or at least the option to significantly overdrive them and start taking tradeoffs, is less fun.

[Bremen]

Personally, I still like my suggestion here for missiles designed to take out enemy engines. I think it provides similar gameplay effects to engine tuners while not requiring special new mechanics, and having more tactical counters available.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I do agree that if such a system was in place as a booster tech then the bonus speed would have to be large enough to bridge at least a 25-50% gap as speed in Aurora can differ rather much. There could also be a technology that give you more boost and perhaps also damaging the engines less. Say that boosting tech start at 20% and slowly can rise to about 50%. Another technology could decrease the damage to the engines as the higher the boost you select the more damage it does to the engines. The boost should be tied to the engine directly, I think that seem the easiest. So you would select it in the same way you select if the engines would have reduced thermal radiation.

I don't think I agree that it would necessarily favour beam offensive ships that much, it could but it certainly would not need to. Especially if there is a grace period from when you drop the speed until weapons come online again. Then you could not just steam in and fire, you would have to wait before doing so and under that time the opponent could increase the range again. But in some situations it would not matter either way, but in some it might matter allot. I think that if you use beam oriented combat ships you still would rather have really fast reliable engines rather than boosting them.

The feeling I'm after are more one of making a tactical retreat from a battle where speeds are similar. It will mean that two opponents with roughly similar speeds then both will be able to pull away from a fight if it goes badly instead of one side always having a small advantage because their ships are 10-20% faster. Another thematic scenario would be when I need to push my ships engines to respond to a threat that have taken me by surprise, I now need to steam my ships over two system, burn twice the MSP in store on the way and will be forced into overhaul after the mission is over.

[QuakeIV]

I would suggest that the boost thing be a separate module, whatever it is.  That way you can choose to retrofit it onto existing ships if you previously didn't want to invest in that but are suddenly facing high tech enemies.

[alex_brunius]

Starfire - the  distant, original ancestor of Aurora - had two game play concepts that might work here.

1) Detuning: A mode that could used for all engines. In Aurora terms, this would be an on/off function at the ship level that provides a small boost to speed (perhaps 20%), reduces sensor range, impairs fire control and has an increasing risk of damage to engines.

2) Engine Tuners. A system built into engines that provides a boost to speed without penalty for a given period. The system itself requires additional space. In Aurora terms, it would be on/off at the ship level for ships with engines equipped with tuners. As the tuners add mass without power, they would either reduce normal speed or reduce available space in exchange for a short-term, tactical speed advantage.

Another option might be to make it work the other way around.

Have Military engines listed speed still be their maximum but offer a economy / cruising mode where the ship move say 50% Speed for 30% fuel consumption or something along those lines. ( With fuel consumption being connected perhaps to minimum engine power modifier tech line ).

This would allow design of ships with a bit higher power modifier without crippling their economical range.

[BwenGun]

Starfire - the  distant, original ancestor of Aurora - had two game play concepts that might work here.

1) Detuning: A mode that could used for all engines. In Aurora terms, this would be an on/off function at the ship level that provides a small boost to speed (perhaps 20%), reduces sensor range, impairs fire control and has an increasing risk of damage to engines.

2) Engine Tuners. A system built into engines that provides a boost to speed without penalty for a given period. The system itself requires additional space. In Aurora terms, it would be on/off at the ship level for ships with engines equipped with tuners. As the tuners add mass without power, they would either reduce normal speed or reduce available space in exchange for a short-term, tactical speed advantage.

The advantage of the second one is that it does provide another way to make beam weaponry more viable. As missile armed ships with fast drives are almost impossible to deal with using beam armed warships unless you're able to endure the barrage until the enemy runs out of munitions and are forced to withdraw. Being able to build engines with a sprint mode might well provide more opportunities where if a missile armed combatant is out of place that beam armed ships might be able to rapidly close the distance and bring them within range.

As someone else mentioned though I think using the Honorverse trade-off might be suitable, whereby sustained boosting has an increased chance of the inertial dampeners failing and killing everyone aboard the ship. Meaning you could perhaps run for a few hours at 120-150% your speed, but the longer you do it the more chance that a ships systems will catastrophically fail and either kill everyone aboard or if you wanted to make it slightly less drastic cause widespread loss of life and injury amongst the crew, thus making the ship combat ineffective for a period of time.

[Steve Walmsley]

Something else to bear in mind is that faster ships are harder to hit. If the penalty for using some form of 'tuner' was relatively minor, it would be used whenever a ship came under attack, which means all weapons become relatively weaker, which means shields become relatively stronger vs armour. I have to be careful here that an apparently minor change doesn't have far-ranging effects. To avoid the above, there would have to be significant penalties to fire control.

It could also make things more difficult for the AI, depending on the mechanics.

Maybe the other suggestion, to have some form of anti-engine missile warhead, would be a better option.

[Sleepymoon]

You do all know this mechanic already exists in-game?
It's called Maximum Engine Power Modifier.

Pros:
It's already in the game.
You can use it anytime you want for as long as you need it.
Steve doesn't have to keep pushing back the release date to program new stuff.
It doesn't damage or destroy your ships when you use it.
No need to micromanage your ships.
You can choose how much boost you want.

Cons:
It costs more to research and build.
It uses more fuel.
You actually have to make compromises when designing your ships.
Edit: slightly more explody.

[Jorgen_CAB]

You do all know this mechanic already exists in-game?
It's called Maximum Engine Power Modifier.

Pros:
It's already in the game.
You can use it anytime you want for as long as you need it.
Steve doesn't have to keep pushing back the release date to program new stuff.
It doesn't damage or destroy your ships when you use it.
No need to micromanage your ships.
You can choose how much boost you want.

Cons:
It costs more to research and build.
It uses more fuel.
You actually have to make compromises when designing your ships.

That would not really be the same thing. The whole point were a way to retreat for both sides as neither can use weapons during the boosted engine usage, thus you could retreat to a safe zone where you can defend and the enemy can't follow you or they will suffer defeat.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Something else to bear in mind is that faster ships are harder to hit. If the penalty for using some form of 'tuner' was relatively minor, it would be used whenever a ship came under attack, which means all weapons become relatively weaker, which means shields become relatively stronger vs armour. I have to be careful here that an apparently minor change doesn't have far-ranging effects. To avoid the above, there would have to be significant penalties to fire control.

It could also make things more difficult for the AI, depending on the mechanics.

Maybe the other suggestion, to have some form of anti-engine missile warhead, would be a better option.

For missiles I would like two ways to mess with an opponent. A missile with a microwave type warhead and a way to target engines using passive thermal sensors that would have a chance to hit engines directly through armour. A microwave warhead could probably also work with EM sensors on missiles which then would increase the hit chance of such missiles or the chance to effect the enemy ships electrical components.

I also think that active missiles should do something beside homing in such as adding extra to hit chance depending on the time the missile are able to track the target. Something like the tracking time bonus for beam weapons.

This would make it more important with hardened sensor systems and perhaps add an armour component to the engine design. Perhaps also make reduced thermal engines harder to hit or simple the less thermal signature the harder it is to hit with such missiles.

You could also allow engines to have degrading performance from damage so can receive partial destruction as one solution. Engines could also be hit through armour with beam weapons besides chock damage. I'm pretty sure that armour engines will be very difficult with 100% certainty.

[Bremen]

You do all know this mechanic already exists in-game?
It's called Maximum Engine Power Modifier.

Pros:
It's already in the game.
You can use it anytime you want for as long as you need it.
Steve doesn't have to keep pushing back the release date to program new stuff.
It doesn't damage or destroy your ships when you use it.
No need to micromanage your ships.
You can choose how much boost you want.

Cons:
It costs more to research and build.
It uses more fuel.
You actually have to make compromises when designing your ships.

That would not really be the same thing. The whole point were a way to retreat for both sides as neither can use weapons during the boosted engine usage, thus you could retreat to a safe zone where you can defend and the enemy can't follow you or they will suffer defeat.

Engine tuners wouldn't work for this. Even if they shut off weapons completely, the faster side would still be able to follow with their own tuners and occasionally turn them off to open fire. Same for kiting (staying at maximum weapon range and firing), really, though they might prevent kiting if they had a delay between turning off and on again.

Something else to bear in mind is that faster ships are harder to hit. If the penalty for using some form of 'tuner' was relatively minor, it would be used whenever a ship came under attack, which means all weapons become relatively weaker, which means shields become relatively stronger vs armour. I have to be careful here that an apparently minor change doesn't have far-ranging effects. To avoid the above, there would have to be significant penalties to fire control.

It could also make things more difficult for the AI, depending on the mechanics.

Maybe the other suggestion, to have some form of anti-engine missile warhead, would be a better option.

For missiles I would like two ways to mess with an opponent. A missile with a microwave type warhead and a way to target engines using passive thermal sensors that would have a chance to hit engines directly through armour. A microwave warhead could probably also work with EM sensors on missiles which then would increase the hit chance of such missiles or the chance to effect the enemy ships electrical components.

I also think that active missiles should do something beside homing in such as adding extra to hit chance depending on the time the missile are able to track the target. Something like the tracking time bonus for beam weapons.

This would make it more important with hardened sensor systems and perhaps add an armour component to the engine design. Perhaps also make reduced thermal engines harder to hit or simple the less thermal signature the harder it is to hit with such missiles.

You could also allow engines to have degrading performance from damage so can receive partial destruction as one solution. Engines could also be hit through armour with beam weapons besides chock damage. I'm pretty sure that armour engines will be very difficult with 100% certainty.

I don't really like the idea of microwave missiles. There's already a microwave beam weapon, and I don't think doubling up on the same concept adds anything. An anti-engine missile wouldn't be meant as a general purpose weapon, but instead serve the important purpose of making beam combat less all or nothing as it would provide a way to force the opponent to let you close in.