Wealth & Population

[IanD (OP)]

From the games I have played so far I have the distinct impression that the more population an empire or nation has the more wealth it generates. With one population per planet this is not a problem.

However when there are multiple populations per planet, in reality not all populations have the same wealth generating capacity. Thus in "real life" the GDP of the USA is >5 greater than the Peoples Republic of China, however when looking at their population, the Peoples Republic of China Has >4 the population of USA so that if you plug in real world populations China tends to produce more wealth than it knows what to do with (because I have cut down the % of industry it has the reflect the economic ratio), but this does nothing to adjust the wealth generation of that empire.

Is there anyway to plug in a wealth modifier as well as an industrial modifier?

Regards
IanD

[Father Tim]

There is a 'wealth generated per unit of population' technology.  Think of it like this:  every empire starts at 'China' levels of wealth per pop, and if they're fortunate, rises to 'USA' levels or beyond.

[IanD (OP)]

Think of it like this: every empire starts at 'China' levels of wealth per pop, and if they're fortunate, rises to 'USA' levels or beyond

Thanks for that Father Tim. The only thing is that the USA starts with a quarter of the wealth generation of China (because it has a quarter of the population), what I would like to see is that as Chinas industrial capacity rose so would the wealth generation per capita until it reached the 100% of baseline with the added wealth techs adding to the current wealth generation status.

Regards
IanD

[Steve Walmsley]

From the games I have played so far I have the distinct impression that the more population an empire or nation has the more wealth it generates. With one population per planet this is not a problem.

However when there are multiple populations per planet, in reality not all populations have the same wealth generating capacity. Thus in "real life" the GDP of the USA is >5 greater than the Peoples Republic of China, however when looking at their population, the Peoples Republic of China Has >4 the population of USA so that if you plug in real world populations China tends to produce more wealth than it knows what to do with (because I have cut down the % of industry it has the reflect the economic ratio), but this does nothing to adjust the wealth generation of that empire.

Is there anyway to plug in a wealth modifier as well as an industrial modifier?

Wealth is based directly on population. The wealth generated by a population is equal to:

(Pop in millions + Financial Centres) * Wealth Rate * Governor Wealth Bonus * (Sector Wealth Bonus/4) * Political Status Wealth Mod * Pop Efficiency * Unrest Modifier * Radiation Modifier

I know what you mean about the wealth generation for large populations. In one game, I actually rigged a lower wealth generation modifier in the database for the Chinese. There are a couple of ways to redress the balance in v3.2, although neither is particularly satisfactory. You can start other nations on a higher wealth rate by using the Instant research option, or you can give them financial centres. Unfortunately, both result in too much wealth for everyone rather than reduced wealth for one pop, which is what you are really looking for. How about if I added some extra levels of wealth rates below the normal starting rate and provided an option during race creation to start a race on a lower level?

Steve

[IanD (OP)]

Steve wrote

How about if I added some extra levels of wealth rates below the normal starting rate and provided an option during race creation to start a race on a lower level?

This would certainly provide an answer especially if you can reduce the wealth in steps to about a quarter of the normal starting wealth. It gives the advantage that you can increase the wealth to "normal " levels via research while selecting an appropriate starting level. All I need to find now is a measure of industrial capacity, then we could have the situation with the first world alliances having the wealth but less manufacturing capacity then the second tier empires.

Regards
Ian

[mavikfelna]

Ah, but in Aurora, Industrial output is MUCH MUCH more important than wealth.

[Brian Neumann]

Ah, but in Aurora, Industrial output is MUCH MUCH more important than wealth.

I don't think I can agree with this.  As you deficit spend everything you do get's slowed down.  If your industry is significantly stronger than the wealth generation, you will not be able to make full use of the industry after a fairly short time.  While it is possible to bank the wealth against future need, you still have a finite amount to work with.

Brian

[Erik L]

What if there was a mechanism to rush production via wealth? If you REALLY REALLY need item X done next month, you can pay a rate equal to 4x the remaining build cost or something to "throw money at the problem" and speed production.

[Steve Walmsley]

Ah, but in Aurora, Industrial output is MUCH MUCH more important than wealth.

I don't think I can agree with this.  As you deficit spend everything you do get's slowed down.  If your industry is significantly stronger than the wealth generation, you will not be able to make full use of the industry after a fairly short time.  While it is possible to bank the wealth against future need, you still have a finite amount to work with.

Yes, a shortage of wealth can really cause problems. You can build a lot of capacity and be unable to use it. The much-reduced human population in my current campaign has run into this exact problem.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

Steve wrote

How about if I added some extra levels of wealth rates below the normal starting rate and provided an option during race creation to start a race on a lower level?

This would certainly provide an answer especially if you can reduce the wealth in steps to about a quarter of the normal starting wealth. It gives the advantage that you can increase the wealth to "normal " levels via research while selecting an appropriate starting level. All I need to find now is a measure of industrial capacity, then we could have the situation with the first world alliances having the wealth but less manufacturing capacity then the second tier empires.

I have added an extra step to race creation that allows you to select the starting wealth rate. The normal starting rate for TN races is 20 and for conventional races it is 10. I have added rates of 2.5 and 5 as well. All the existing rates will be available as well so you could assign 24, 30 or higher as the starting rate. The research amounts are higher for the very low levels as these are larger jumps in percentage terms than the existing tech levels

Wealth 2.5 is the mininum starting rate
Wealth 5 Research is 3000 RP
Wealth 10 Research is 5000 RP
Wealth 20 Research is 10,000 RP

The higher levels remain as before
3000 RP for Wealth 24
5000 RP for Wealth 30
10,000 RP for wealth 37.5
etc.

Steve

[IanD (OP)]

I have added an extra step to race creation that allows you to select the starting wealth rate. The normal starting rate for TN races is 20 and for conventional races it is 10. I have added rates of 2.5 and 5 as well. All the existing rates will be available as well so you could assign 24, 30 or higher as the starting rate. The research amounts are higher for the very low levels as these are larger jumps in percentage terms than the existing tech levels

Thanks Steve, looks to be just what I was looking for. So how long till 3.3 is released........?

Regards
Ian

[Steve Walmsley]

I have added an extra step to race creation that allows you to select the starting wealth rate. The normal starting rate for TN races is 20 and for conventional races it is 10. I have added rates of 2.5 and 5 as well. All the existing rates will be available as well so you could assign 24, 30 or higher as the starting rate. The research amounts are higher for the very low levels as these are larger jumps in percentage terms than the existing tech levels

Thanks Steve, looks to be just what I was looking for. So how long till 3.3 is released........?

Regards
Ian

A little while. There are no serious issues with v3.2 so there are a couple of things I want to add before releasing v3.3

Steve

[IanD (OP)]

so there are a couple of things I want to add before releasing v3.3

Does that mean the precursors will return? Some of us never had the pleasure of meeting them!

Regards
Ian

[SteveAlt]

so there are a couple of things I want to add before releasing v3.3

Does that mean the precursors will return? Some of us never had the pleasure of meeting them!

They will definitely return. I did a lot of work on the AI a couple of versions back then promptly changed some key parts of the program and couldn't use it . I'll need to return to that and update it but getting precursors back is a high priority. I'll probably tackle it after v3.3 is out.

Steve