My new Battle fleet

[ccasper (OP)]

I just finished designing my newest battle fleet. I would like some constructive criticism. It is designed to deal with almost any threat i've encountered playing the game so far.

First the main battleship:

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Bristol class Battleship    25000 tons     1933 Crew     9390.1 BP      TCS 500  TH 326.4  EM 8550
5440 km/s     Armour 20-76     Shields 285-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 130     PPV 42
Annual Failure Rate: 125%    IFR: 1.7%    Maint Capacity 19390 MSP    Max Repair 480 MSP    Est Time: 7.54 Years
Magazine 1214    

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (17)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 144.0 billion km   (306 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (57)   Total Fuel Cost  855 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (4x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
AMM Launcher (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Size 10 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 45
Sword II Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 90
Sword Fire Control 145mkm-700t (2)     Range 145.2m km    Resolution 14
AMM Fire Control 34,56mkm (1)     Range 34.6m km    Resolution 1
Sword II Anti-ship Missile (181)  Speed: 53,100 km/s   End: 47m    Range: 149.9m km   WH: 10    Size: 4    TH: 354 / 212 / 106
Micro Missile (160)  Speed: 42,500 km/s   End: 11.8m    Range: 30m km   WH: 5    Size: 1    TH: 340 / 204 / 102
Mayhem Missile (33)  Speed: 33,700 km/s   End: 68.1m    Range: 157.8m km   WH: 0    Size: 10    TH: 112 / 67 / 33

ECCM-4 (3)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
The missile escort:

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Furious class Escort Cruiser    10000 tons     707 Crew     3514.9 BP      TCS 200  TH 134.4  EM 3000
5600 km/s     Armour 10-41     Shields 100-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 39     PPV 10
Annual Failure Rate: 88%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 2977 MSP    Max Repair 240 MSP    Est Time: 4.79 Years
Magazine 1066    

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (7)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 240,000 Litres    Range 144.0 billion km   (297 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  300 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (3x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
AMM Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC17-R1 (1)     Range 17.3m km    Resolution 1
Shield II Anti-missile Missile (1066)  Speed: 62,500 km/s   End: 4m    Range: 15m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1208 / 725 / 362

ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
The destroyer escort:

Code: [Select]

Weymouth class Destroyer Escort    7100 tons     595 Crew     2641.8 BP      TCS 142  TH 96  EM 1500
5633 km/s     Armour 5-32     Shields 50-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 75
Annual Failure Rate: 36%    IFR: 0.5%    Maint Capacity 2558 MSP    Max Repair 288 MSP    Est Time: 6.46 Years

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (5)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 169.0 billion km   (347 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  150 Litres per day

Twin Gauss Cannon R5-100 Turret (5x10)    Range 50,000km     TS: 31200 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 60-32000 (1)    Max Range: 120,000 km   TS: 32000 km/s     92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
The Command ship:

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Hunt class Command Ship    23300 tons     1955 Crew     11291.9 BP      TCS 466  TH 307.2  EM 7500
5493 km/s     Armour 15-72     Shields 250-300     Sensors 720/720/0/0     Damage Control Rating 105     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 96%    IFR: 1.3%    Maint Capacity 23631 MSP    Max Repair 960 MSP    Est Time: 6.64 Years

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (16)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 154.5 billion km   (325 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (50)   Total Fuel Cost  750 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Active Search Sensor MR921-R40 (1)     GPS 38400     Range 921.6m km    Resolution 40
Active Search Sensor MR230-R10 (1)     GPS 9600     Range 230.4m km    Resolution 10
Active Search Sensor MR23-R1 (1)     GPS 960     Range 23.0m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH30-720 (1)     Sensitivity 720     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  720m km
EM Detection Sensor EM30-720 (1)     Sensitivity 720     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  720m km

ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
And the fleet jump ship that also serves as the emergency fuel and mainternance reseve:

Code: [Select]

Exeter class Jump Tender    25000 tons     1755 Crew     7223.1 BP      TCS 500  TH 326.4  EM 1950
5440 km/s    JR 5-50     Armour 10-76     Shields 65-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 59     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 84%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 44654 MSP    Max Repair 900 MSP    Est Time: 10.32 Years

J25000(5-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 25000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5
Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (17)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,500,000 Litres    Range 600.0 billion km   (1276 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (13)   Total Fuel Cost  195 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (2x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


[Hawkeye]

Not done an in-depth analysis

The JS:
Too little armor. Once this one buys it, your squadron is stranded out there. My (combat)jumpships usually have as much armor as my heaviest combatant.
I assume, this one doubles as a tender/tanker, which is good. It´s just a case of "many eggs in one basket" so another reason to keep it alive.

[ccasper (OP)]

I started form a conventional start and i'm curently 35 years into the game. This is my first missile oriented race so designed this fleet mostly as a test of the missile weaponry so i have a few different missile designs. Apart from some precursors and star swarm I haven't yet had any major battle and i have so far only use energy weapons due to missile system's complexity.

Yes the mayhem missile is a MIRV with 5 micro missiles, and as for the extra sword launchers i have planed to have at least 4 BB's in a fleet so it has the capability to launch a total of 80 missiles per wave, and the AMM launcher on the bb is intended for short range conficts and isn't ment for missile defence, i just used the same launcher as the CE, and the FC is a leftover from a PDC AMM design.

Why does the CE need multiple FC's?

I have planed for at least 6 DE's in the fleet.

Yes the command ship is a huge liability and I plan to have at least 2 in the fleet so i'm not crippled by the destruction of one ship. but it's still a liability, i decided this design because i wanted to have very poverfull sensors so i required a separate ship.

Hmm i intended to keep the jump ship out of harms way, but now that you mention it is is a bit risky.

[Hawkeye]

I started form a conventional start and i'm curently 35 years into the game. This is my first missile oriented race so designed this fleet mostly as a test of the missile weaponry so i have a few different missile designs. Apart from some precursors and star swarm I haven't yet had any major battle and i have so far only use energy weapons due to missile system's complexity.

35 years from a conventional start to Internal confinement fusion drive and xi shields?
Holy macros, with how many reserch labs did you start?

Yes the mayhem missile is a MIRV with 5 micro missiles, and as for the extra sword launchers i have planed to have at least 4 BB's in a fleet so it has the capability to launch a total of 80 missiles per wave, and the AMM launcher on the bb is intended for short range conficts and isn't ment for missile defence, i just used the same launcher as the CE, and the FC is a leftover from a PDC AMM design.

While the fleet has the ability to launch 80 missiles (counting the submunistions) per salvo, they won´t reach target together. That´s the main reason, I´d go with one type of launcher/missile. Either concentrate on the Sword II or go all out MIRV
Didn´t notice the warhead-5 on the micro missile. Could make sense to have a short range missile for short range combat. On the other hand, logistics is hard enough allready, no need to make it even more so by using three different ASMs in a single ship.

Why does the CE need multiple FC's?

Each FC can only target a single salvo at a time. If you get swamped by many small salvos, limiting your CE to one countersalve per increment can be a liability.

I have planed for at least 6 DE's in the fleet.

Ok, with 30 gauss turrets in the fleet, you don´t realy need additonal ones on the BB/CE

[ccasper (OP)]

Yeah i started with 6bilion population so i think i got 60 research lab from the start, i added a couple of ruins on mars and mercury oh and i SM'd max research rate but not from the start. . I'm using this campaign to try new stuf.

While the fleet has the ability to launch 80 missiles (counting the submunistions) per salvo, they won´t reach target together. That´s the main reason, I´d go with one type of launcher/missile. Either concentrate on the Sword II or go all out MIRV
Didn´t notice the warhead-5 on the micro missile. Could make sense to have a short range missile for short range combat. On the other hand, logistics is hard enough allready, no need to make it even more so by using three different ASMs in a single ship.

I haven't tought about that, i' will implent this in future designs but i'll keep this as it is for this test fleet.

Each FC can only target a single salvo at a time. If you get swamped by many small salvos, limiting your CE to one countersalve per increment can be a liability.

this could be a real problem, will multiple ships help?
Also how effective are CIWS against missiles?

[Hawkeye]

Each FC can only target a single salvo at a time. If you get swamped by many small salvos, limiting your CE to one countersalve per increment can be a liability.

this could be a real problem, will multiple ships help?
Also how effective are CIWS against missiles?

High tech CIWS "should" be pretty effective (I haven´t tested this in a game, though)

Let´s look at this a bit closer
Your CIWS have a tracking speed of 32.000 and CIWS have generally a 50% to-hit chance (3 HS gauss canon) as they are a strictly point blank weapon and range doesn´t come into the equation.
Each of your CIWS throws 10 shots out per use, this means each "salvo" will on average take out 5 enemy missiles, as long as the missile speed does not exceed your tracking speed.
If, for example, the missiles come in at 64.000 km/s, your CIWS will only get 2.5 missiles on average and so on.

And yes, multiple ships can engage multiple salvos

Let´s assume you get attacked by, say 4 of my FAC flotillas with 6 FACs each. If those mount 10 to 15 box-launchers each. This means, each of them can ripple fire 3 5-missile salvos within 15 seconds. You would be attacked by 3 x 24 salvos of 5 missiles each within 15 seconds. I guess your gauss turrets and CIWS would take care of most leakers, but still....

Of course, with your huge detection range against missiles (and the matching FC/AMM range), there probably wouldn´t be all that many of my missiles reaching CIWS range anyway

[ccasper (OP)]

I see what you mean, You could proably have a lot more FAC flotilas for the same resources. And if you were on the same tech level you could easily overcome the defences with much lover number of missiles

[Charlie Beeler]

Keep in mind these are just my opinions based on my style of play which tends to be quite aggressive.

I just finished designing my newest battle fleet. I would like some constructive criticism. It is designed to deal with almost any threat i've encountered playing the game so far.

First the main battleship:

Code: [Select]

Bristol class Battleship    25000 tons     1933 Crew     9390.1 BP      TCS 500  TH 326.4  EM 8550
5440 km/s     Armour 20-76     Shields 285-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 130     PPV 42
Annual Failure Rate: 125%    IFR: 1.7%    Maint Capacity 19390 MSP    Max Repair 480 MSP    Est Time: 7.54 Years
Magazine 1214    

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (17)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 144.0 billion km   (306 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (57)   Total Fuel Cost  855 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (4x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
AMM Launcher (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Size 10 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 45
Sword II Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 90
Sword Fire Control 145mkm-700t (2)     Range 145.2m km    Resolution 14
AMM Fire Control 34,56mkm (1)     Range 34.6m km    Resolution 1
Sword II Anti-ship Missile (181)  Speed: 53,100 km/s   End: 47m    Range: 149.9m km   WH: 10    Size: 4    TH: 354 / 212 / 106
Micro Missile (160)  Speed: 42,500 km/s   End: 11.8m    Range: 30m km   WH: 5    Size: 1    TH: 340 / 204 / 102
Mayhem Missile (33)  Speed: 33,700 km/s   End: 68.1m    Range: 157.8m km   WH: 0    Size: 10    TH: 112 / 67 / 33

ECCM-4 (3)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


Entirely to much maintenance on board.  I'm assuming multiple maintance bays which belong on support ships not combat ships in my fleet structures.

Increase the number of engines too at least 25 from the current 17.  

Magazine capacity of 1214 and loadout listing calcs to 2140?  Assuming that the loadout is not current.  Especially since there are no AMM's in the list.

Size 4 launchers that take twice as long as size 10's to reload?  Assuming an older system that will be updated.

AMM fire control has an excess of range.  Cut back on the mass here might free enough for a minimum active R1.

Passives are massive!  If this was a defensive design I might agree, but IMO too much for an offensive ship.

3 different missiles systems (technically 4 with the sub-munitions) on one ship is too much.  Stick with 2, 1 defensive and 1 offensive, you'll have better engagement endurance and less of a logistics headache.

Unless your encountering racings that have thick point defenses I'd drop the multi-warhead system in favor of a thicker salvo density (ie more size 4 launchers) and increased magazine capacity for salvo endurance.

Add a R100 active sensor that can cover your offensive missiles base range as well.  As Hawkeye points out, if you lose the command ship the fleet is mission killed.

I'd also cut the CIWS back to 2 systems from 4 considering the escorts capabilities.

Damage control is a bit heavy as well.  

The missile escort:

Code: [Select]

Furious class Escort Cruiser    10000 tons     707 Crew     3514.9 BP      TCS 200  TH 134.4  EM 3000
5600 km/s     Armour 10-41     Shields 100-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 39     PPV 10
Annual Failure Rate: 88%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 2977 MSP    Max Repair 240 MSP    Est Time: 4.79 Years
Magazine 1066    

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (7)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 240,000 Litres    Range 144.0 billion km   (297 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  300 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (3x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
AMM Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC17-R1 (1)     Range 17.3m km    Resolution 1
Shield II Anti-missile Missile (1066)  Speed: 62,500 km/s   End: 4m    Range: 15m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1208 / 725 / 362

ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


As with the BB the CIWS suite is too large.  I'd cut it back to 1 considering the AMM quality and the Gauss density on the DE's.  

Also not enough engine capacity.  

Same AMM fire control/actives range sugestion as above.  Need to add a second fire control (5v1 is the maximum point defense assignment).  

Drop the ECCM.  Missile ECM is rarely used by the AI in my experience.  

The destroyer escort:

Code: [Select]

Weymouth class Destroyer Escort    7100 tons     595 Crew     2641.8 BP      TCS 142  TH 96  EM 1500
5633 km/s     Armour 5-32     Shields 50-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 75
Annual Failure Rate: 36%    IFR: 0.5%    Maint Capacity 2558 MSP    Max Repair 288 MSP    Est Time: 6.46 Years

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (5)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 169.0 billion km   (347 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  150 Litres per day

Twin Gauss Cannon R5-100 Turret (5x10)    Range 50,000km     TS: 31200 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 60-32000 (1)    Max Range: 120,000 km   TS: 32000 km/s     92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


As with the other ships,  too slow for the tech.

1 fire control for 5 turrets?  Your limited to engaging only 1 salvo, granted that one salvo will most likely be wiped out.  Turrets for point defense need to a 1:1 ratio with fire control for maximum salvo engagement.  

This is also a repeat...  add an R1 active that has at least 500k detection range.  

The Command ship:

Code: [Select]

Hunt class Command Ship    23300 tons     1955 Crew     11291.9 BP      TCS 466  TH 307.2  EM 7500
5493 km/s     Armour 15-72     Shields 250-300     Sensors 720/720/0/0     Damage Control Rating 105     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 96%    IFR: 1.3%    Maint Capacity 23631 MSP    Max Repair 960 MSP    Est Time: 6.64 Years

Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (16)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 154.5 billion km   (325 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (50)   Total Fuel Cost  750 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Active Search Sensor MR921-R40 (1)     GPS 38400     Range 921.6m km    Resolution 40
Active Search Sensor MR230-R10 (1)     GPS 9600     Range 230.4m km    Resolution 10
Active Search Sensor MR23-R1 (1)     GPS 960     Range 23.0m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH30-720 (1)     Sensitivity 720     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  720m km
EM Detection Sensor EM30-720 (1)     Sensitivity 720     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  720m km

ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


To continue the theme...too slow..... too much maintance on board.. :wink: Without the Task Force staff in system your task force training is for naught.  (ie orders delays that could be critical)

And the fleet jump ship that also serves as the emergency fuel and mainternance reseve:

Code: [Select]

Exeter class Jump Tender    25000 tons     1755 Crew     7223.1 BP      TCS 500  TH 326.4  EM 1950
5440 km/s    JR 5-50     Armour 10-76     Shields 65-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 59     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 84%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 44654 MSP    Max Repair 900 MSP    Est Time: 10.32 Years

J25000(5-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 25000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5
Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive E3 (17)    Power 160    Fuel Use 30%    Signature 19.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,500,000 Litres    Range 600.0 billion km   (1276 days at full power)
Xi R300 Shields (13)   Total Fuel Cost  195 Litres per day

CIWS-320 (2x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


This is a support ship in my mind.  With that I'd cut the armor to only about 4 layers for cya and drop the shields all together.  Use the mass freed to increase the engines to 25 and add fuel to bring the tonnage back to 25k.  

Tag the class as both a tanker and a supply ship.

For combat jumps design a dedicated assault jumpship that is very passive heavy.


Overall the designs are not bad.  They just have different design approachs than I use.  

The only major weakness is the reliance on the command ship for all active scans.  

Consider designing a lighter ship that is a dedicated fleet scout/system probe.  This is a place that the cloak systems can be used effectively if the scout is intended to use passive thermal and EM sensors for primary detection.

[ccasper (OP)]

So basically less CIWS, more engines, sensor independence, and only one missile on the BB. Makes sence thanks. i didn't know about the flag bridge thanks :?

EDIT: They self destruct because they have no target or onboard sensors is it a design flaw of the MIRV, because the sword II missiles work fine

[welchbloke]

So basically less CIWS, more engines, sensor independence, and only one missile on the BB. Makes sence thanks. i didn't know about the flag bridge thanks :?

EDIT: They self destruct because they have no target or onboard sensors is it a design flaw of the MIRV, because the sword II missiles work fine

This sounds similar to a bug that has been reported concerning drones not flying to waypoints.  I think we are waiting for Steve to have a look and decide if it is a bug or not.

[UnLimiTeD]

Yeah, it seems recently you can't fire MIRVs reliably.
They seem to need a sensor....

Speed is a matter of tactics, generally, if you let the enemy run away, You'll have to fight his planetary defense.
CIWS only defend the ship they are installed on, and thus are relatively useless unless the enemy evenly spreads the fire.
Maintenance is quite heavy, that is true, on a ship in excess of 20k tons, 150% annual failure rate is a given, don't try to fight it.
However, an Estimated time of 2-3 years is a must if you operate away from supply bases (which in them selves aren't a bad idea, mind you).

[Erik L]

Usually, the only missiles I MIRV (nice verb) are the ones with built-in actives/thermals. That way, they can find their own targets. But it also means some volleys might get thinned out as missiles go for separate ships.

[ccasper (OP)]

Oh so i have put sensors on the carrier missile.