Dedicated Sensor Ships, and a question about the average size of enemy vessels.

[C4lv1n (OP)]

So I'm going to try again to get into this game, things always arise that get in the way and then I have to relearn the whole thing, which is what I'm doing now. So I have a few questions before I get started (again, for the third or fourth time)

1. Do dedicated sensor ships work in combat? For example, if I have a few ships in my fleet handling enemy and missle detection can my warships use this information to shoot stuff? I imagine this will be the case but would it be effective? Is there a delay in relaying the information to the warship from the sensor ship? A delay that the enemy missles could take advantage of?

2. What is the average ship size, both for the enemy and for what the enemy's sensors are usually set to detect, or is there an average size? The plan I've drawn up involves making ships 4/5ths the size of the average vessel (4k tons if 5k tons is the average, which I think it is, though I am probably wrong), this should give me a bit of an edge, since I can get closer before they detect me.

3. The no overhauls setting means you don't have to worry about failure % and engineering spaces, correct?

EDIT:: 4. Is it just me or do Mesons seem really OP? This seems to be the case, atleast early on where most components are one hit to kill.

EDIT2:: 5. The wiki seems to indicate that a dedicated point defense ship will also work, 1 or more protection the fleet from incoming missles, but I've read some posts that say that point defenses only work for the ships they're mounted on. Can I make dedicated point defense ships?
EDIT3:: Ive read some more posts, lots about dedicated point defense ships, I am really confused now.

I'm trying to put as many things as possible on their own ships, to keep size down.

I think that's it, though I may have more questions for this thread later.

[ardem]

So I'm going to try again to get into this game, things always arise that get in the way and then I have to relearn the whole thing, which is what I'm doing now. So I have a few questions before I get started (again, for the third or fourth time)

1. Do dedicated sensor ships work in combat? For example, if I have a few ships in my fleet handling enemy and missle detection can my warships use this information to shoot stuff? I imagine this will be the case but would it be effective? Is there a delay in relaying the information to the warship from the sensor ship? A delay that the enemy missles could take advantage of?

Basic breakdown of sensors, You have active, thermal and EM, Thinking active as a targeting sensor, this allows you to use your targeting fire control to fire at an enemy with a weapon. Thermal and EM are passive sensors each with it flaws and qualities, most people use thermal.
Now with active sensors you will probably need two types ones to pick up ships and one to pick up missiles, they are different based on range and the type of size the sensor is suppose to pick up. Make sure you understand fire control that in effect also apart of the range when dealing with weapons.

2. What is the average ship size, both for the enemy and for what the enemy's sensors are usually set to detect, or is there an average size? The plan I've drawn up involves making ships 4/5ths the size of the average vessel (4k tons if 5k tons is the average, which I think it is, though I am probably wrong), this should give me a bit of an edge, since I can get closer before they detect me.

There is no hard or fast rule here, it is more about speed then size, but the optimum I have found for military vessels is around 7-10K having said that i have played a game where the vessels are in the 20-30K bracket and are slower but more heavily defended and armed

3. The no overhauls setting means you don't have to worry about failure % and engineering spaces, correct?

Correct

EDIT:: 4. Is it just me or do Mesons seem really OP? This seems to be the case, atleast early on where most components are one hit to kill.

What do you mean by OP? overpowered, they can be but the range is very small so if you vessel is slower you never get close enough to use them

EDIT2:: 5. The wiki seems to indicate that a dedicated point defense ship will also work, 1 or more protection the fleet from incoming missles, but I've read some posts that say that point defenses only work for the ships they're mounted on. Can I make dedicated point defense ships?

In a your ships are inter connected they can share each other sensor data, and they can also protect each other ships with either a turreted gauss/laser/meson canon if you set that type in the fire control options. However the CIWS point defence is only for the ship it is on. Having said this unturret weapons can be used as well but due to the limitations based on the sped of the ship v incoming missiles they rarely work.

EDIT3:: Ive read some more posts, lots about dedicated point defense ships, I am really confused now.

Wiki is your friend

[Peter Rhodan]

I have dedicated sensor ships - means I only have to have Missile Fire Controls on the combat vessels (means more missiles etc) and can carry pretty big sensors on the sensor only ships - my current refit program is giving me 6kT sensors ships with 600mk+ range R50 ASSs and 105mk/15mk R1 ASSs - my MFCs are currently 369mk R50 and only 8mk R1 AM but will be going up soon..
I have a new generation of 12kT jump ships which are also now doubling as sensor ships with the above sensors as well. ( I use Jump gates so non of my combat vessels have jump engines)
On my 30kT Ships of the Line I have a small ASS just as a backup and also because I keep these at Earth as my reserve and if my main strike fleet is off doing something they may have to operate on their own.
Hope this helps

[C4lv1n (OP)]

Thanks for helping me out. I've just completed my first few ships and I'd like it if you guys would look at them and tell me why they're terrible.

*Couple things*
-I have overhauls off so engineering spaces are not required
-My target speed is 6000Km/s or above
-My target size is 4Kt or below
-My target range is 434 days (That's just how it ended up)

This is my sensor ship (Censorship).

Code: [Select]

Annapolis Combat Variant class Gravsurvey Ship    1,200 tons     76 Crew     205.4 BP      TCS 24  TH 160  EM 0
6666 km/s     Armour 1-10     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 240%    IFR: 3.3%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 55 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

Military Magneto-plasma Drive E6 ARM-1 (2)    Power 80    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 80    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 250.0 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR16-R100 (70%) HS2 (1)     GPS 3200     Range 16.0m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
And this is my Meson corvette

Code: [Select]

Tribal class Corvette    3,800 tons     288 Crew     735.6 BP      TCS 76  TH 480  EM 0
6315 km/s     Armour 1-21     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 11
Annual Failure Rate: 760%    IFR: 10.6%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 225 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

Military Magneto-plasma Drive E6 ARM-1 (6)    Power 80    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 80    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 236.8 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Twin R12/C6 Meson Cannon Turret (1x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 12-12     RM 12    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Beam Fire Control S04 120-10000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (70%) - Anti Missle (1)     GPS 16     Range 800k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I've got an Anti-missle sensor on the war ship and the Anti-ship sensor on the sensor ship. Does this means that the mesons will take targets from both sensors from both ships, and be able to target both ships and missiles effectively with the fire control I have set up? (And hopefully not get blown up by missiles?)

I do plan to make missle ships as long range fighters, this isn't going to be the only ships I'm using.

[minionator]

I'd armor up that corvette some.   3 layers at least.   mesons go right through shields and armor, but most of what you fight won't be armed with mesons, and with only one layer of armor you'll be into internals *really* fast, which is bad.   pretty much anything with even a remotely decent energy armament will go through that protection like tissue paper.   you can probably pull off some fuel tanks to save weight.   or slap on more engines.   240 billion kilometers is a *lot* of range for that level.   Also, maybe I'm just reading those charts wrong, but your meson ship doesn't seem to have any power plants feeding the mesons.   Also, you need a much bigger active sensor on the sensor ship.   the antimissile one on the meson ship is enough to light up anything you get into range, so the sensor ship needs to go for wide-area coverage.   Right now you leave yourself horribly open to being lit up by missile ships that you can't even see due to poor sensor range.   Or losing track of enemy ships that you're pursuing because they broke contact.

Hard to tell from your ship designs, but I's suggest pouring money into sensor research, your basic tech looks low.   Spotting the enemy first is very important, and entertaining, if you play it right.

[C4lv1n (OP)]

Like I said, relearning the game over and over again, I forgot the power plants, man I feel dumb, and I'll up the armour and sensor ranges.

[minionator]

It's cool.   Back in the dark mists of history, when I first started playing this game, some of my early mistakes were. . .  bad.   Stuff like forgetting to put jumpdrives on jump tenders, load missiles into warships, mislabeling active sensors as missile fire control, and in one particularly entertaining incident, accidentally deleting one of my main battlefleets because of a misclick.   All these mistakes were only discovered in combat, if possible.

[Ziusudra]

Without any engineering spaces and maintenance supplies, ships won't be able to repair battle damage (if they survive.) You might want enough MSP to repair the Max Repair. Other wise you'll have to send a tug out to get a ship that has lost all it's engines.

If you do use tugs, remember to put a tractor beam on the design. I can say from experience that they are not very useful without that.

[Father Tim]

Without any engineering spaces and maintenance supplies, ships won't be able to repair battle damage (if they survive.) You might want enough MSP to repair the Max Repair.

Double the Max Repair.  Repairing battle damage costs double the MSP of regular maintenance.

[Peter Rhodan]

Increase your long range sensors - design something in the 200mK R50 range so you can see ships of 5kt or bigger who are shooting at you...
In my game the Precursors have AMMs that got 23.5mk and ASMs that go 115mk ... it varies from game to game but that is typical.