Post by: lastverb on January 18, 2010, 05:33:45 PM
Post by: James Patten on January 18, 2010, 06:44:27 PM
I'm not too concerned with Steve losing focus on his original vision, though.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on January 19, 2010, 12:41:29 AM
Quote from: "lastverb"
any1 from older users noticed that aurora community is rapidly evolving from "dwarf fortress" one to "simcity (bigger number the better)" and dont like it and possibility of influencing with it a higher command (steve)?I am finding that the increased number of players means I am spending a lot more time answering posts, a lot less time programming and no time at all writing fiction :). I assume the recent threads on Wargamer and Bay12 probably sparked the recent wave of new players so the rate at which new players are arriving should reduce soon (I hope - or I am going to need a clone to help!). Those players will also get used to the game and won't need to ask as many "How do I" questions and eventually will become old hands too. More experienced users should mean more fiction and more good ideas so it should benefit the game in the long run.
Steve
Post by: Father Tim on January 19, 2010, 02:34:37 AM
Post by: lastverb on January 19, 2010, 03:38:11 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
However, most of the posts are "How do I do xyz?" so I hope that will settle down as players get more used to the game.do you really belive that? dont you know how forum (forums at all) works? only thing that save aurora is that hard style of game keeping wow (exclude pre-tbc) players aways
Post by: Steve Walmsley on January 19, 2010, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: "lastverb"
Hey! I am playing WoW at the moment :) and her second name, Amazonia, was lost when I transferred from Argent Dawn. I do admit that there are a lot of younger players on WoW, or at least they seem to act young :)Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"However, most of the posts are "How do I do xyz?" so I hope that will settle down as players get more used to the game.do you really belive that? dont you know how forum (forums at all) works? only thing that save aurora is that hard style of game keeping wow (exclude pre-tbc) players aways
Steve
Post by: boggo2300 on January 19, 2010, 01:44:12 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "lastverb"Hey! I am playing WoW at the moment :) and her second name, Amazonia, was lost when I transferred from Argent Dawn. I do admit that there are a lot of younger players on WoW, or at least they seem to act young :)Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"However, most of the posts are "How do I do xyz?" so I hope that will settle down as players get more used to the game.do you really belive that? dont you know how forum (forums at all) works? only thing that save aurora is that hard style of game keeping wow (exclude pre-tbc) players aways
Steve
Youd be better on LOTRO if you want a slightly
more mature player group, plus the graphics are beauiful!only drawback is the hobbits
Matt
Post by: Steve Walmsley on January 19, 2010, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: "boggo2300"
Youd be better on LOTRO if you want a slightly :)
Wow is just the flavour of the month at the moment. I think EVE is probably the one I have played the most. LOTRO was very good though and it was the only MMORPG where I regularly took time just to admire the scenery.
Steve
Post by: Beersatron on January 19, 2010, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "boggo2300"Youd be better on LOTRO if you want a slightly :)
Wow is just the flavour of the month at the moment. I think EVE is probably the one I have played the most. LOTRO was very good though and it was the only MMORPG where I regularly took time just to admire the scenery.
Steve
EvE is the best! Wormhole Space is sweet, if you haven't tried it yet.
Post by: sloanjh on January 19, 2010, 04:07:33 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "boggo2300"Youd be better on LOTRO if you want a slightly :)
Wow is just the flavour of the month at the moment. I think EVE is probably the one I have played the most. LOTRO was very good though and it was the only MMORPG where I regularly took time just to admire the scenery.
Steve
I started up on UO when it first came out. Then I got a real job and had to quit MMORPGs
My brother-in-law is addicted to Eve.
John
Post by: Erik L on January 19, 2010, 04:58:20 PM
Yes, I play LotRO. Silverlode server. Too many toons to count, but the main is Tenerial.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on January 19, 2010, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
EvE is the best! Wormhole Space is sweet, if you haven't tried it yet.No, I haven't played for about a year. Is this the new exploration options?
Steve
Post by: Erik L on January 19, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Beersatron"EvE is the best! Wormhole Space is sweet, if you haven't tried it yet.No, I haven't played for about a year. Is this the new exploration options?
Steve
No EVE! Aurora! *cracks the whip* Back to work!
Post by: Beersatron on January 19, 2010, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Beersatron"EvE is the best! Wormhole Space is sweet, if you haven't tried it yet.No, I haven't played for about a year. Is this the new exploration options?
Steve
It is part of exploration. Wormholes are populated by Sleeper NPCs which are ridiculously tough and have an improved AI. It takes a gang of 6/7 tech2 fitted BSs about 30 minutes to clear just one 'instance'. A WH itself can only allow so many tons to pass through before it collapses, stranding people in that WH - so you are up smeg creek if you didn't bring a probe launcher with you!
I can't explain it fully, but it is fun for now.
Post by: boggo2300 on January 19, 2010, 09:45:30 PM
I wouldve looked you up Erik as I was on Silverlode, but moved about a year ago to the Euro servers, and am currently on Snowbourne
Matt
Post by: Erik L on January 19, 2010, 10:41:34 PM
Post by: Lafe Sparhawk on January 20, 2010, 05:04:58 PM
Lafe
Post by: Lafe Sparhawk on January 20, 2010, 05:33:35 PM
Lafe
Post by: ShadoCat on January 20, 2010, 06:39:14 PM
Quote from: "Lafe Sparhawk"
I understand lastverb's aprehension. People new to Aurora, myself included, will have redundant, seemingly silly questions. Are we that stupid? Not really, well maybe a bit. That just reflects the steep learning curve involved. The process will shake people out, but those willing to stick with the game and learn with the support of the community will also enhance it. Will I be one of those? Time will tell.
Not stupid.
We've all had many of the same questions or we've been here when Steve announced a new or changed feature.
So, you don't know everything about a complex game that, until recently, didn't really have a users manual. Ignorance is fixable....
...So, fix it already. 15 forums with new messages a day. Sheesh.
Post by: sloanjh on January 20, 2010, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: "ShadoCat"
Quote from: "Lafe Sparhawk"I understand lastverb's aprehension. People new to Aurora, myself included, will have redundant, seemingly silly questions. Are we that stupid? Not really, well maybe a bit. That just reflects the steep learning curve involved. The process will shake people out, but those willing to stick with the game and learn with the support of the community will also enhance it. Will I be one of those? Time will tell.
Not stupid.
We've all had many of the same questions or we've been here when Steve announced a new or changed feature.
So, you don't know everything about a complex game that, until recently, didn't really have a users manual. Ignorance is fixable....
...So, fix it already. 15 forums with new messages a day. Sheesh. :-) ) is that Steve isn't going to take the game in any direction he doesn't want it to go - like I said, he's impartial in his non-listening
John
Post by: Rathos on January 20, 2010, 10:00:52 PM
Without it I would of never of found you and this amazingly awesome game/simulator.
I think we owe it to everyone to spread the word so other people that have dreamed of a game like Aurora and haven't found it yet.
To keep it all to ourselves would be selfish, don't you think?
Post by: sloanjh on January 20, 2010, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: "Rathos"
As one of the new players, I'd like to say I'm very thankful about the post on the bay12games forums.
Without it I would of never of found you and this amazingly awesome game/simulator.
I think we owe it to everyone to spread the word so other people that have dreamed of a game like Aurora and haven't found it yet.
To keep it all to ourselves would be selfish, don't you think?
And I hope I made it clear that y'all are welcome, at least from my perspective.
John
Post by: lastverb on January 21, 2010, 04:16:25 AM
guys pls use search button and read ingame button/field hints and THINK
Post by: welchbloke on January 21, 2010, 06:08:50 AM
Post by: sloanjh on January 21, 2010, 09:09:07 AM
Quote from: "lastverb"
well when i start (not so far ago) i could get almost everything i needed to know from ooooooooold ver. tutorials, button hints in game and forum search button (yes there is one in bottom right if u didnt notice). i dont know everything about this game, but reading multiple times same (mostly stupid) questions (even posted same day), answered earlier is rather annoying. overall level of questions is going to be "how to press a button?". i know im intolerant and i just stopped even reading any help question topics
guys pls use search button and read ingame button/field hints and THINK
Ah - now I understand what you meant. Yes, people it's annoying to see posts from people who won't bother to do a little research; I think the restructuring that Erik did to make the "New Players" area will help on that. Plus, like I said, I think those sorts of people will self-select away from the game very rapidly.
John
Post by: Canaris on January 21, 2010, 11:28:32 AM
The tutorials helped me only a little bit - it allowed me to understand the basics - but all the tutorials and tool-tips in the world won't teach you everything about Aurora.
Some people learn by seeing examples, some people learn by reading descriptions, and some people learn through a simple 'yes' or 'no' process.
What kind of stupid questions have you seen? From what I've seen, with the depth of Aurora, there aren't many stupid questions.
Post by: sloanjh on January 21, 2010, 01:52:18 PM
Quote from: "Canaris"
I don't know. I'm pretty intuitive. But sometimes the forums don't answer the question the way you need it answered.
The tutorials helped me only a little bit - it allowed me to understand the basics - but all the tutorials and tool-tips in the world won't teach you everything about Aurora.
Some people learn by seeing examples, some people learn by reading descriptions, and some people learn through a simple 'yes' or 'no' process.
What kind of stupid questions have you seen? From what I've seen, with the depth of Aurora, there aren't many stupid questions.
It's not a question of stupidity, it's a question of whether it feels like the asker has made even a minimum effort to discover the answer on his/her own. A prime example of this is the display question. I suspect we had about a dozen rounds of "Aurora doesn't support my screen size" and/or the improper install (DB and exe versions don't match) over the last few weeks. It might have only been 5-10% of the new people coming on, but dealing with that 5-10% was tiresome. As I've said elsewhere, what was particularly frustrating was to answer a question one day, then the next day see the same question from a different person who I knew had been on the boards for several days. If I feel like the asker has made even a minimal (a minute or two of searching) effort to get an answer, then I'm happy to answer even the most basic questions.
I don't want this thread to take on a negative tone. I think this is simply one aspect of human nature - in any population you're going to have this sort of thing going on. I think there have been lots of strides forward on the structure and content of the boards so that if we get another wave of new players the effects will be mostly contained to the "new players" area. I also agree with Welchbloke that the new blood has opened up a lot of horizons. It was posts by some of the new mega-ship players that sparked the idea I just posted in Suggestions about Aurora Deathmatch/Trillion BP Squadron - up until now I don't think anyone has been too successful in running Aurora as a multiplayer game because the focus has been on strategic (empire building) rather than tactical (fight it out between instant-OOB fleets) Aurora. So overall I'm happy about the new players (yourself included) - it's just that you pretty much always get a little bit of bad to go with the good.
John
Post by: waresky on January 21, 2010, 02:12:43 PM
Aurora are designed first ONLY FOR PERSONEL use Steve's.End.
This is a free community of "sci-fi Fans" and "HardCore Sci-Fi game" players.
Steve are free to post tutorial or not.
ive been learn Aurora in many months game alone.
Read forum,questioning and reading.
And testing,testing and testing.
My 2 cents.
Post by: mrwigggles on January 22, 2010, 01:23:03 AM
I do try to do the search, its not terribly helpful on any forum. A few days ago, I was searching for astroid mining how to, and the search didn't find anything for the terminology I was using. I found it by accident from dicking around on the new player area.
I tend to not read those topics, as they are either covering subjects I feel strong, or parts of the game that I am not using yet, and due to that will have little recall over it.
Overall the community here seems pretty nice, and easy going, and I am really happy that I spent the 18 or so combined hours to get an emulator, get an OS, get nother OS as the first one was to old, get something to get the emulator, then figure out how to use it, figure out how to install the game, then do it over thrice, get the resolution handicap resolved.
Post by: Jetman123 on January 24, 2010, 10:42:19 PM
Either way, I'm glad that this game is picking up. It really doesn't deserve to languish as a cult classic.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on January 25, 2010, 07:10:09 AM
Quote from: "Jetman123"
I think the influx of new people was mostly because someone posted a link to this game and the relevant FAQ and wiki on the Dwarf Fortress forums, describing it as "DF in space" essentially. I like the analogy. Both games are hard to get into but wonderfully rewarding and complex.
Either way, I'm glad that this game is picking up. It really doesn't deserve to languish as a cult classic.
I don't know about it being a "cult classic". It definitely has it's roots in one though.
Post by: Mikeck on January 25, 2010, 06:45:08 PM
For example: I couldn't figure out how to load a mine into a freighter.. I searched and coukdnt find anything. Turns out that when I built mu freighters, they went to the "shipyard" TG and therefor, couldn't operate on their own. This "mistake" seemed obvious to some but for those learning the game, it was.not obvious.
I for one find everyone on this forum to be very helpfull and I would never ask that the game be "mainstreamed"
Post by: ShadoCat on January 25, 2010, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: "Jetman123"
Either way, I'm glad that this game is picking up. It really doesn't deserve to languish as a cult classic.
I agree.
Attrition is inevitable. If a game (or any group) isn't constantly attracting new blood, it will slowly wither until it's down to two or three old farts talking about the good old days.
Post by: Decimator on March 19, 2010, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: Journier on March 19, 2010, 03:19:40 PM
Quote from: "Decimator"
If people are continually asking the same questions, that means the information isn't easily accessible. Three things can help with that. An updated wiki(I'm very new and still learning, or I'd do it myself.), an IRC channel clearly posted where users can go to ask questions, and more tooltips(where the tooltips currently exist, they are extremely helpful.)
What more does the wiki need? I began running out of idea's for major area's, and ran out of time.
I ran through and gave the Wiki a fairly large update a week or 2 ago.
Post by: Decimator on March 19, 2010, 04:18:32 PM
Quote from: "Journier"
Quote from: "Decimator"If people are continually asking the same questions, that means the information isn't easily accessible. Three things can help with that. An updated wiki(I'm very new and still learning, or I'd do it myself.), an IRC channel clearly posted where users can go to ask questions, and more tooltips(where the tooltips currently exist, they are extremely helpful.)
What more does the wiki need? I began running out of idea's for major area's, and ran out of time.
I ran through and gave the Wiki a fairly large update a week or 2 ago.
What I can remember being frustrated over is trying to figure out how research works and not being able to find the information easily. Another is that I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong when I was building research labs but not getting more research labs in the research tab (what I think I was doing here is building partial research labs by accident, but I don't have any way of knowing for sure) I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten. That one might be better served by an IRC channel though. IRC helped me a lot when I was bludgeoning Dwarf Fortress into submission, and I think it would help a lot for Aurora as well. I'm sure there's more stuff that I had trouble with, but I forgot what it was as I encountered shiny new stuff.
The other thing I'd like to see is a detailed tech tree that lists what each technology unlocks, and what the unlock is good for. As it is, I have to guess, such as what path I need to follow to get mass drivers so my colonies can send minerals to eachother? I'm guessing that its under projectile weapons? I don't have the spare research labs to get there yet, so I haven't been blindly researching.
I also think the tutorial does a small disservice by having players start with the advanced start. It felt overwhelming to me, and I did much better being able to do one step at a time via the conventional start.
Post by: Father Tim on March 19, 2010, 06:38:06 PM
Quote from: "Decimator"
What I can remember being frustrated over is trying to figure out how research works and not being able to find the information easily.
Select a topic, select a scientist, choose a whole number of labs (from 1 to max), 'Add Project', await results.
Quote from: "Decimator"
Another is that I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong when I was building research labs but not getting more research labs in the research tab (what I think I was doing here is building partial research labs by accident, but I don't have any way of knowing for sure) I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten. That one might be better served by an IRC channel though. IRC helped me a lot when I was bludgeoning Dwarf Fortress into submission, and I think it would help a lot for Aurora as well. I'm sure there's more stuff that I had trouble with, but I forgot what it was as I encountered shiny new stuff.
The user base of Dwarf Fortress is orders of magnitude greater than that of Aurora. I seriously doubt enough people would join an IRC channel to make it useful. Certainly I'd expect a better result from asking questions in the The Academy section of this board.
Quote from: "Decimator"
The other thing I'd like to see is a detailed tech tree that lists what each technology unlocks, and what the unlock is good for.
Aurora doesn't have a 'Tech Tree', it has dozens of 'Tech Vines' - it's all quite linear. Ninety-nine percent of it is:
Tech ---> improved version of Tech for double RP ---> etc.
Engines use a variant:
reactor ---> engine --> improved reactor ---> improved engine ---> etc.
And a handful of techs have no prerequisites and no upgrades:
Asteroid mining modules, terraforming modules, troop transport bays, etc.
Quote from: "Decimator"
As it is, I have to guess, such as what path I need to follow to get mass drivers so my colonies can send minerals to eachother? I'm guessing that its under projectile weapons? I don't have the spare research labs to get there yet, so I haven't been blindly researching.
None. Unless you do a conventional industry start, in which case its ... (checks) ... none. Well, Trans-Newtonian Research but that's a given.
Quote from: "Decimator"
I also think the tutorial does a small disservice by having players start with the advanced start. It felt overwhelming to me, and I did much better being able to do one step at a time via the conventional start.
A conventional industry start is the advanced start - 'advanced' meaning more difficult. The standard (ie, TN start) provides the player with pretty much everything they need to perform all the basic actions of the game, whereas a conventional industry start requires the player to build/research/discover everything from the ground up, and thus unable to do almost anything right off the bat - a situation that almost all new players find extremely frustrating.
What I mean to say is that with the standard, TN start you can still do 'one step at at time', whereas with a conventional industry start you must, and can only do 'one step at a time' - and if you don't do the right steps, in the right order, you're screwed.
Post by: Journier on March 20, 2010, 03:08:17 PM
IRC really sucks with small communities. a single purpose IRC server with small communities = very empty, very much.
Luckily steam has 5000 different uses for different games, pretty useful for small community to use.
Post by: StratPlayer on April 01, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
I'm still very low on the learning curve, but I'm trying to do all I can to learn as much as possible about Aurora. I've gone through the tutorials, I've dug through the FAQs, and I'm wading into the fictional AAR's to try to get up to speed. This lis exactly like the type of game I love -- I'm an old SFB fan, who most enjoys deep TBS and 4x games, especially space-based (Mo2, SMAC, GalCiv2), with some old-school RPGs thrown in -- almost the exact mix that seemsto describe Aurora.
I think one of the challenges -- or at least intimidating elements -- that a new player sees is also the pace of the upgrades. Please note that I'm definitely not complaining about it -- it's a huge benefit and shows the dedication, involvement, and committment of Steve to make the game continually improved. But it does add another level of complexity to a noob -- reading about something in a tutorial or AAR and then realizing that it no longer applies because it was changed at some point before the latest release.
For this reason I'm purposely trying to work with v4.94 simply because it most closely matches the tutorial threads. Once I figure that out pretty well, then I'll upgrade to 5.0x.
But so far, I'm really enjoying the game and am very grateful to Steve and this community for creating and supporting this. In just a few days playing around with it, I have already gotten my money's worth for the game many times over.
Yeah, that's another amazing thing about this game: All this depth and fun and it's freeware?!?!? :not-worthy:
Post by: sloanjh on April 01, 2010, 08:46:00 PM
Quote from: "StratPlayer"
I think one of the challenges -- or at least intimidating elements -- that a new player sees is also the pace of the upgrades.Old players run into this too - at least I do. It really hurts to have to give up an old empire that you've grown to love because a new version came out with stuff you want to use and the DB aren't compatible.
Quote
I have already gotten my money's worth for the game many times over.ROFL!!!
John
PS - "Come see the violence inherent in the system!"
Post by: Steve Walmsley on April 02, 2010, 01:14:00 AM
Steve
Post by: waresky on April 02, 2010, 05:51:17 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Help! Help! I am being repressed :D
Steve,an older Traveller gamer as me,tell u: "i love this smeg,damn!!!"..
Post by: praguepride on April 02, 2010, 10:47:12 AM
Post by: AndonSage on April 06, 2010, 09:09:28 AM
One of the reasons I like Aurora so much is that it's like playing the Starfire series by David Weber and Steve White. I absolutely love military science fiction (I <3 Baen :) I would think a Tutorial on this subject would cut down on a _lot_ of questions.
I don't know who runs the AuroraWiki, but it could use updating with current information also. And that requires someone who knows the game mechanics very well, as well as any new changes. Even the Aurora program itself needs updated. For example, in version 5.02, the Planetary Sensor Strength says "Each additional Deep Space Tracking Station on a planet beyond the first will increase overall sensor strength by 25%," which is no longer true. I think more tool tips and better descriptions could also help cut down on newbie questions. I spent a long time just trying to figure out how to increase the Level of my Deep Space Tracking Station. There was nothing that just said "number built = Level."
Anyway, I'm trying to do my part by keeping notes of all the questions I've had as well as their answers, or at least the threads with the information, and hopefully I can update the Wiki myself in a couple weeks.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on April 08, 2010, 08:52:58 AM
Quote from: "AndonSage"
I don't know if these boards had an influx just recently, but I got here from a comment in a thread about Distant Worlds, which was just recently released by Matrix Games.
One of the reasons I like Aurora so much is that it's like playing the Starfire series by David Weber and Steve White. I absolutely love military science fiction (I <3 Baen :)
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on April 08, 2010, 08:57:05 AM
Quote from: "AndonSage"
On version 5.02, the Planetary Sensor Strength says "Each additional Deep Space Tracking Station on a planet beyond the first will increase overall sensor strength by 25%," which is no longer true. I think more tool tips and better descriptions could also help cut down on newbie questions. I spent a long time just trying to figure out how to increase the Level of my Deep Space Tracking Station. There was nothing that just said "number built = Level."Fixed for v5.1
Steve