Author Topic: Ground Combat  (Read 3437 times)

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Offline Mor (OP)

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Ground Combat
« on: January 03, 2016, 05:15:14 AM »
Unlike navy operations, ground combat seem rather straight forward. Still I got few questions:

1. Does lack of sufficient forces is the only cause for planetary unrest? If not, than does deploying my armies can reduce civil unrest (martial law, executions, whatever)

2. What are the 'Low tech Armor Division' and 'Low tech Infantry Division'. Also on the flavor\RP side, anyone want to offer a quick description of ground units combat roles, beyond the stats?

Code: [Select]
Assault Infantry Battalion-
Combat Engineer Battalion-
Garrison Battalion-
Heavy Assault Battalion-
Marine Battalion-
Marine Company-
Mobile Infantry Battalion-

Brigade Headquarters-
Division Headquarters-

Replacement Battalion-
Construction Brigade-
 

Offline Mor (OP)

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 06:45:16 AM »
3. is it true that  commanding officer in a brigade or division HQ should have a higher rank than his subordinates to be effective ?
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 07:06:52 AM »
1) unrest is caused by having insufficient protection in a system, PDCs work well for this, or also newly conquered populations have high unrest. Ground troops will end the unrest.
2) Low tech represent old conventional military units, they are low powered compared to TN units and are massive because of the logistics involved with keeping such units equipped. A modern division might have 20 tanks, but require hundreds of trucks moving troops and equipment around.
The other units are based on specific roles, IE combat engineers are trainsed and equipped for attacking or holding PDCs, marines are for capturing ships or PDCs but not holding them, etc.

3)I believe you can't assign a brigade to a HQ unit unless the HQ is higher level.
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Offline Mor (OP)

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 07:36:06 AM »
1. Yes, if people want more troops than bringing more troops will solve it. But iirc overcrowding (due to insufficient infrastructure) will also cause unrest, if so will bringing more toops help?

3. I think its possible when an officer get promoted during his commission(like with planetary admins). The rest is just fact checking from the wiki page.
 

Offline linkxsc

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 01:03:01 PM »
1. Yes, placing troops on an overcrowded planet will keep the unrest to a minimum (however they will not solve the "people dying because not enough infrastructure" problem.

3. I do think they can get promoted, but I haven't used GF heavily in a while.
 

Offline Prince of Space

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2016, 03:57:02 PM »
2. For the sake of thoroughness, here are the various ground units in detail. All the Attack and Defend stats increase as your empire's Ground Unit Strength tech increases, but the proportions will all remain the same.

     Low Tech Infantry Division - Attack 1.2, Defend 2.5, Cost 60, Size 50
     Low Tech Armor Division - Attack 3, Defend 3, Cost 90, Size 50

These two are useful only in that they are your only option in the pre-Transnewtonian era. If you aren't playing in a conventional start you won't need to worry about using them. A low tech unit can be converted into a cadre, preserving the officer corp to reduce the training costs for a more advanced Transnewtonian unit, but I don't play conventional starts so someone else can jump in to talk about that.

     Assault Infantry Battalion - Attack 10, Defend 5, Cost 100, Size 5
     Mobile Infantry Battalion - Attack 5, Defend 10, Cost 100, Size 5
     Heavy Assault Battalion - Attack 12, Defend 12, Cost 180, Size 5
     Garrison Battalion - Attack 0, Defend 10, Cost 60, Size 5

These are the basic Transnewtoian ground units. Notice how they are one tenth the size of their conventional predecessors, while their attack and defense values are much higher (except for the Garrison Battalion's attack stat).

Depending on your budget and you expectations of whether you're going to be on offense or defense, you'll want to pick and choose your ground units from these four options, generally. RP-wise, I tend to throw a pair of Garrison Battalions onto each colony as a peacekeeping gendarmerie. It keeps the rabble in line.

     Marine Battalion - Attack 10, Defend 10, Cost 180, Size 5
     Marine Company - Attack 2, Defend 2, Cost 36, Size 1
     Combat Engineers - Attack 10, Defend 10, Cost 180, Size 5

Marine Battalions and Marine Companies double their attack and defense stats when they are in combat aboard a ship, that is when conducting or defending against a boarding action. Combat Engineers double their attack and defense stats when they are in combat defending or assaulting a Planetary Defence Center (PDC).

The Marines have a company sized formation to accomodate the tighter space on board ships, as compared to on A PDC or in the open on a planet's surface. A Small Troop Transport Bay, a Combat Drop Module - Company, or a Combat Drop Module (Cryo) - Company can hold a ground unit no larger than size 1, which is to say only a Marine Company.

When you expect to be conducting operations in the respective areas of expertise of these units, the appropriate unit for the job is better (per unit cost) than the more general purpose Heavy Assault Battalion. On the other hand, when out in the open on a planetary battlefield, a HA Battalion is noticably better than a Marine Battalion, even though both cost the same.

RP-wise, I provide accomodations for Combat Engineers in all my PDCs, and in my largest warships I like to include a security detail Marine Battalion, even if needing to defend against boarding combat is unlikely.

     Brigade Headquarters - Attack 0, Defend 2, Cost 150, Size 5
     Divisional Headquarters - Attack 0, Defend 3, Cost 250, Size 5

Organizing battalions under a higher formation allows for the base units to gain morale over time, above and beyond their typical maximum of 100, as laid out here:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=2308.msg22219#msg22219

     Replacement Battalion - Attack 0, Defend 0.5, Cost 40, Size 5

If one of your ground units takes readiness (i.e. hit point) damage, the Replacements sacrifice their readiness to replenish the combatant unit's casualties. If you're going to lose a unit, it might as well be the one that costs one third as much as a HA Battalion, right?

     Construction Brigade - Attack 0, Defend 5, Cost 150, Size 25
     Forced Labour Unit - Attack 0, Defend 1, Cost 40*, Size 100

These two units function as Construction Factories, without the need to provide the population (and potentially infrastructure) you would normally need to establish a manufacturing sector on given colony. This is useful, for instance, when you want to assemble a prefabricated PDC on an unpopulated world. Additionally, Construction Brigades have an additional use: recovering installations and technology from alien ruins. Forced Labour Units have additional rules involving their training, as outlined here:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=6532.msg69183#msg69183

Hope that helps!
 

Offline Rich.h

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2016, 09:11:53 AM »
Be aware that while bringing in more troops may prevent unrest related effects. They do nothing to the actual unrest causes or the amount unrest increases by each click. For example if your population are complaining about over crowding and you do not ship/build more infrastructure (and their growth level is higher than the amount of infrastructure being produced as a trade good). Then you will constantly have to bring more and more troops in just to keep the peace (think martial law with an ever expanding populace). One of the other main causes for unrest being the PPV that is provided compared to the amount requested. Troops do not change the provided amount, only PDC's and ships in system have any effect on this value. So once again you are trying to enforce martial law on an expanding populace (which alone increases the amount of troops needed), in addition to the colony as a whole demanding that they have an increasing level of real space protection provided to them.

While troops cost next to nothing to upkeep, they can take a long time to get produced in the first place. So if you happen to have a large standing army, then by all means feel free to station a few of the older less useful units as "police forces" to provide a measure of unrest control should it ever start to creep up. But relying on using troops as a mechanism to combat unrest is extremely expensive, time consuming and ultimately impossible for larger colonies. If you are having problems with unrest and feel it is getting away from you then there is a work around you can implement until you get a grip of the situation. Design a PDC with missile launchers that are as large as you can physically make them (they do not need any missiles or magazines). The mere sight of a "giant ion cannon" makes colonists happy beyond belief and a PDC with 4-5 launchers like that sticking out of them will provide a lot of PPV. Just remember not to then look at the PPV being provided in a system as a means to judge if you have enough forces to hold back that unpleasent looking armada on route.  8)
 

Offline Prince of Space

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »
A minor quibble: unrest generated by overpopulation was scaled back in 6.0:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=4835.msg49789#msg49789

Since overpopulation results in a negative growth rate, the population will oscillate between over- and perfectly populated. The minor amount of grumbling you may see from temporary overcrowding is easily put down by a battalion or two of jackbooted public relations specialists.

I agree with the broader point, though. It is helpful to stay aware of the root causes of unrest in your colonies.
 

Offline Mor (OP)

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 01:15:55 PM »
Few more questions:

1. maintenance and training cost?
2. Moral "based on experience and training", HQ experience right?
3. How moral effect combat, and does combat affect moral?

I hope I didn't forget anything, I only work on this when I have time and I tend to rage quit if hit the traffic rushhours here.

Hope that helps!
Very much, soon it will be on the wiki almost as is.

Edit:
Btw, the wiki original page has been split in two: Ground Forces and Ground Forces Combat (I am done with former, and didn't touch much the later)

If you have any quibbles about that, please go ahead, it can certainly enjoy from extra polish.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 03:03:54 PM by Mor »
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 07:45:06 PM »
After the changes to unrest in 6.0 that Prince of Space mentioned, a single GAR is enough to handle unrest. It might not take care of ALL unrest in one construction cycle, but it will counter both the increase and bring it down. Of course, if the unrest has reached ridiculous levels and you need to get productivity to 100% ASAP, then yeah, drop a divisions worth of troops.

I have experience of conventional era land warfare and I can tell you that even a single GAR will be a show-stopper. LTA is capable of defeating LTI but you need parity of numbers. If both sides have LTI and LTA, the winner will need to have a proper superiority in numbers, juts getting the occasional +5% from a commander is not enough.

Moral allows you to raise your readiness above 100, meaning that the unit will take more hits before being destroyed. This is obviously useful.

Land combat is SLOOOOOOOOOOOW as it only happens on construction cycle, there is no way to avoid collateral damage and if only one side attacks, then the attacker doesn't need his defence values or the defender his attack values. This means that you should NOT make uniform brigades and divisions - you should have a mixture of Assault Inf and Mobile Inf in each brigade so that it's as powerful in defense as in attack because you're usually doing both. Of course HVA brigades are superior but they take a lot longer to make and cost a lot more.
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2016, 09:13:56 PM »
Thanks for that info about low tech assaults. I'm going to ensure the low tech battles in the initial era of the imperium are as bloody as possible.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Prince of Space

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2016, 11:25:57 PM »
Btw, the wiki original page has been split in two: Ground Forces and Ground Forces Combat (I am done with former, and didn't touch much the later)

If you're sprucing up those wiki pages, you may want to add in the Forced Labour Unit to the Unit Statistics table, and add in some mention of the PDC Barracks and Small PDC Barracks components to the Deployment section. You may also want to include some mention of the combat value of a ship's crew during a boarding action, which can be found here:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=1680.msg15830#msg15830

1. The mineral cost for any given unit is an amount of Duranium equal to one quarter of the Training Cost plus an amount of Neutronium equal to three quarters of the Training Cost. Ground units incur an itty bitty wealth expenditure for ongoing maintenance, but I can't seem to suss out a formula by looking at my current empire. I believe the wealth cost for ground unit training is equal to the unit's Training Cost.

2 & 3. Moral ground units are less effective than immoral ground units. You want your Space Marines to spend their free time gambling, chasing loose women, and opening champagne bottles with their laser sabres. Morale, on the other hand is a good thing, and can be trained up thusly:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=2308.msg22219#msg22219
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 11:28:09 PM by Prince of Space »
 

Offline Mor (OP)

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Re: Ground Combat
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 12:18:40 AM »
Moral allows you to raise your readiness above 100, meaning that the unit will take more hits before being destroyed. This is obviously useful.
I might be wrong, but readiness is your unit "hit points", affected by loss of personnel in combat and require replacements. Not sure if it affect anything. Meanwhile Morale is more like discipline or unit cohesion, which can be lost out of combat, and affect combat effectiveness (attack\defense) and is regained over time and can be raised above 100 with proper training.

While presumably both are effected and affect by combat (e.g. units fighting with low Morale are more likely to disperse\surrender), they are not the same.

2 & 3. Moral ground units are less effective than immoral ground units. You want your Space Marines to spend their free time gambling, chasing loose women, and opening champagne bottles with their laser sabres.
But immoral ground units claim to have more fun on the battlefield.. Anyway, this why wikis are made better through collaboration, little changes can have great effect on quality, and people for whom the English language is native are always highly regarded for final polish. People don't be shy ;)

EDIT:
add in some mention of the PDC Barracks and Small PDC Barracks components to the Deployment section.
The deployment section was created with interplanetary transport in mind, but sure what you have in mind. ( I am not overly familiar with PDC Barracks and Small PDC Barracks components).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 01:31:29 AM by Mor »