Author Topic: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread  (Read 108746 times)

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Offline metalax

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #165 on: August 13, 2013, 07:40:30 AM »
Actually, deletion is probably a bad idea. If the designations were linked to a game, then I can support that. But I think the NPR also use those designations. So game and race linked.

Yeah, I thought that might be a possibility, which was why I put the obsolete option in there.
 

Offline Erik L (OP)

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #166 on: August 13, 2013, 08:05:44 AM »
Yeah, I thought that might be a possibility, which was why I put the obsolete option in there.

I've got no issue with them being deleted, if they were specific to a game/race. Since they are global... Even just a "hide" option would be nice.

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #167 on: August 14, 2013, 02:18:28 AM »
I don't argue that unrefined ore would have less mass and volume than refined ore. However, there are no indication that what is mined could not also be refined at the same time. So what is shipped could actually be in its refined and pure form (Sorium being the only one we know is not refined).
Actually Industry is per definition refining less valuable raw materials into more valuable usable end products...

The refining chain starts with raw materials and end with a finished product and at every step mass (and often volume too) is removed and energy + value is added.

With that said a construction of Duranium such as infrastructure could certainly have allot more volume than the unrefined Duranium ore, it could be several factors bigger in volume.
Why? Today the infrastructure we use is very efficiently packed for shipping towards final assembly using steel (girders, rolls, rebar), concrete and asphalt.

All of these are certainly less volume and mass then the raw ore, coal, oil, rock and gravel used to create them.

I think it would be a more legitimate question to ask why a cargo ship (or ships with hangars) require as much fuel when fully loaded as when empty. This goes for it's speed as well. The same with missile space, fuel etc.. It works for tugs.

I don't mind the simplicity as it is, but I would not mind that both volume and mass was used as well as different fuel and speed depending in the ordnance, cargo, fuel and flights carried by a ship.
I agree, perhaps if the civilian cargo ships became bigger instead of more numerous, there would be extra calculation power over to simulate such things?
 

Offline Whitecold

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #168 on: August 14, 2013, 04:43:22 AM »
In Missile design fuel currently only takes up a small percentage compared to the other components, meaning there are less design options. Making a missile with less fuel doesn't really give you space to add significant amount of other components.
For example, there is no point in building different ranged AMM, range is practically only determined by sensor reach, as 0.02MSP of fuel more or less don't make a difference added anywhere else.
Also more creative missile designs like two-stagers with a low powered 'march' stage are pointless, as the additional drives take up way more space than just using the space for fuel for a single, maxed drive. I never designed a missile drive with less than maximum power multiplier, which takes away the point of having different power multipliers if only one option really makes sense.

My suggestion is either to add even higher power multipliers, with even more fuel cost until the fuel necessary to propel these missiles takes up a significant amount of space.
Another possibility would be to add finite endurance to the drive after which they overheat, regardless of fuel. Higher power multipliers would have shorter endurance, with an added option to increase the lifetime of the drive at the cost of increased drive size.
 

Offline Nightstar

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #169 on: August 14, 2013, 12:40:37 PM »
Whitecold> You feel that way because you aren't using a whole lot of range. Sensors can be built a LOT bigger, especially with a bit of tech. When you're trying to build a 6 MSP missile with 200+ mkm range, those observations of yours get less accurate. Now, that kind of range may be unneeded against the AI, but that's a different problem.
 

Offline Thundercraft

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #170 on: August 14, 2013, 05:18:37 PM »
I think it would be a more legitimate question to ask why a cargo ship (or ships with hangars) require as much fuel when fully loaded as when empty. This goes for it's speed as well. The same with missile space, fuel etc.. It works for tugs.
I agree, perhaps if the civilian cargo ships became bigger instead of more numerous, there would be extra calculation power over to simulate such things?

Agreed. Though, as you mention, it's more stuff to keep track of. I do like the idea of having civilian cargo ships tend towards larger sizes. That might help existing game speed issues, too.

Some related observations:

a) If shipping is profitable, more private companies will be founded and more private ships will be built.

b) The Too many civilian ships thread talks about an issue where civilian shipping basically explodes and becomes so prolific that it dramatically slows down the game. It seems not everyone experiences this, but it's more than one or two isolated cases.

c) Commercial Ships owned by private companies do not require fuel.

d) Ships designed with a commercial engine are much more fuel efficient, using only 10% of the fuel of a military engine of the same power.

e) Each freighter run costs 5 wealth for a same system contract and 10 wealth for an interstellar contract.

Suggestions:

Why not create a financial incentive for private companies to launch larger and larger ships as long as the routes are profitable enough to justify it? Possible solutions:

1) Have privately-owned civilian ships use a small amount of fuel and force them to deduct this cost from their profit margin. With larger ships able to haul more stuff for each round trip on the same amount of fuel (or less), they'd be more profitable. (Maybe make larger ships slightly faster, too?) If running out of Sorium becomes a concern, that might be fixed by increasing available amounts.

2) Profit maximization can be calculated as a function of revenue, minus costs, over time. Revenue is currently a fixed rate of 5 or 10 wealth per contract. With larger ships able to handle larger contracts in a single trip, vs making multiple trips, they take less time to complete the contract. Larger ships being able to handle more contracts in a give time span should have them considered more profitable. (Though, larger ships cost more to produce. So the ship should have to pay for itself before it is considered profitable and justification to produce more.)

3) Instead of a fixed rate, one could have the price of a contract vary somewhat according to the size to make larger contracts generate more revenue. (Perhaps, say, 2 to 8 for same system contracts and 9 to 15 for interstellar contracts?)

4) Alternatively, just program a preference for private companies to launch larger ships vs. smaller ones the more time passes and the more profit they gain.

Also, do civilian ships have a lifespan (in years) after which a company must retired (scrap) them? If not, something like that might eventually reduce the number of smaller ships companies will initially produce.
"Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine." - Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #171 on: August 15, 2013, 01:53:02 AM »
Suggestions:

Why not create a financial incentive for private companies to launch larger and larger ships as long as the routes are profitable enough to justify it? Possible solutions:

1) Have privately-owned civilian ships use a small amount of fuel and force them to deduct this cost from their profit margin. With larger ships able to haul more stuff for each round trip on the same amount of fuel (or less), they'd be more profitable. (Maybe make larger ships slightly faster, too?) If running out of Sorium becomes a concern, that might be fixed by increasing available amounts.
That sounds like the perfect opportunity to make Civilian Fuel Harvesters useful.

Suggestion:

Assign a "HQ" body for every civilian line created and create a separate fuel reserve there for every shipping line. This means they will prefer traffic between their hub/HQ since that fuel is "free".

This could also mean we could buy or sell fuel in bulk from civilian lines depending on if we or the company needs it more.


2) Profit maximization can be calculated as a function of revenue, minus costs, over time. Revenue is currently a fixed rate of 5 or 10 wealth per contract. With larger ships able to handle larger contracts in a single trip, vs making multiple trips, they take less time to complete the contract. Larger ships being able to handle more contracts in a give time span should have them considered more profitable. (Though, larger ships cost more to produce. So the ship should have to pay for itself before it is considered profitable and justification to produce more.)
If that is how it works then the logical conclusion is that those players that see a runaway civilian traffic have a big colony on luna and possibly also spaceports on both earth and luna reducing loading/unloading times. That would mean extremely frequent wealth income from very short traderuns.

Also, do civilian ships have a lifespan (in years) after which a company must retired (scrap) them? If not, something like that might eventually reduce the number of smaller ships companies will initially produce.
Yes, IIRC it's something like 15 years if a ship of the same type is launched and otherwise 20years.
 

Offline Shipright

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #172 on: August 16, 2013, 05:07:49 PM »
BIOSPHERE!!!

Something that always bothers me about planet management is that there is lots of detail in terraforming regarding atmosphere and temperature and other base factors but no attention to the biosphere. Or in other words while its nice to have a planet modified to exactly what I need for an atmosphere to be breathable, what I am basically left with is a dead desert that the game treats as a paradise as far as game play goes. So I propose adding another metric to terraforming that reflects the size, complexity and health of the biosphere.

Details:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,6383.0.html
 

Offline Aloriel

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #173 on: August 17, 2013, 01:30:12 AM »
Shorten training time for ships.

I have 3 new ships that have been training for 1 year. The lowest training rating among all of the officers in that fleet is 250 (my highest in the entire officer pool is 375). After 1 year, they're only at 34% trained. This seems absurdly low for an entire year of training.

The ship's stats are:
Code: [Select]
FF Islip class Frigate    15,350 tons     434 Crew     3916.8 BP      TCS 307  TH 2000  EM 2400
6514 km/s     Armour 3-55     Shields 80-400     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 17     PPV 14.02
Maint Life 2.68 Years     MSP 2711    AFR 110%    IFR 1.5%    1YR 539    5YR 8081    Max Repair 1575 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 2    

1000 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 34.94%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 33.6 billion km   (59 days at full power)
Gamma R400/192 Shields (40)   Total Fuel Cost  320 Litres per hour  (7,680 per day)

Single 15cm C5 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 180,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-5     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S16 96-12000 H50 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.15 (2)     Total Power Output 18.4    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Active Search Sensor MR840-R100 8/21 (50%) (1)     GPS 105000     Range 840.0m km    Resolution 100

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Previous frigates of similar design have trained in less time (about a year), but that was with an officer with over 400 CTR. These are rare officers. It just seems odd that training would take years (even a whole year is a bit over the top, but acceptable). To me, 6 months should be average.

By this measure, no ship laid down at the start of WW2 was fully trained since they take 2 years to build, and 3 years to train the crew...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 01:34:05 AM by Aloriel »
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Offline Bgreman

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #174 on: August 17, 2013, 02:29:19 AM »
Shorten training time for ships.

I have 3 new ships that have been training for 1 year. The lowest training rating among all of the officers in that fleet is 250 (my highest in the entire officer pool is 375). After 1 year, they're only at 34% trained. This seems absurdly low for an entire year of training.

The ship's stats are:
Code: [Select]
FF Islip class Frigate    15,350 tons     434 Crew     3916.8 BP      TCS 307  TH 2000  EM 2400
6514 km/s     Armour 3-55     Shields 80-400     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 17     PPV 14.02
Maint Life 2.68 Years     MSP 2711    AFR 110%    IFR 1.5%    1YR 539    5YR 8081    Max Repair 1575 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 2    

1000 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 34.94%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 33.6 billion km   (59 days at full power)
Gamma R400/192 Shields (40)   Total Fuel Cost  320 Litres per hour  (7,680 per day)

Single 15cm C5 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 180,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-5     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S16 96-12000 H50 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.15 (2)     Total Power Output 18.4    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Active Search Sensor MR840-R100 8/21 (50%) (1)     GPS 105000     Range 840.0m km    Resolution 100

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Previous frigates of similar design have trained in less time (about a year), but that was with an officer with over 400 CTR. These are rare officers. It just seems odd that training would take years (even a whole year is a bit over the top, but acceptable). To me, 6 months should be average.

By this measure, no ship laid down at the start of WW2 was fully trained since they take 2 years to build, and 3 years to train the crew...

Do you mean crew training rating or task force training?  Crew training for a ship caps out at 34%.  :-X
 

Offline Aloriel

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #175 on: August 17, 2013, 02:51:48 AM »
Task force training, not crew grade. Crew grade for this fleet of three ships is <10% because they are brand new ships.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #176 on: August 17, 2013, 04:11:23 AM »
Some things that come to my mind (off the top of my head, so I might be wrong too)

1) If your CO of the TG (i.e. the guy that is listed as senior officer in the TG window) is of equal or higher rang as your Task Force commander, TF boni will not apply. (I hope I remember that one correctly)

2) The TF operations officer is quite important in TG training, even more so than the Crew Training rating of your CO, I believe.
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Offline Aloriel

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #177 on: August 17, 2013, 11:24:59 AM »
Still, shouldn't it take a significantly shorter time to train up a ship than 3 years with moderately good officers? I shouldn't need exceptional officers to keep training time below a year. It's excessively long.

For additional clarification, my TF Commander is a rear admiral (I have only 2 of these, and both are TF commanders). The officers in question are captains. They are in the same system. My rear admiral has a fairly low CTR (125), but as I said before, these captains have 250+. This is somewhat below average due to the admiral's rating. I would accept this combination taking a year (not 3) because it's only so-so. Back when I had 400+ CTR officers involved, I would expect <6 months, not the year it took.

Additionally, my TF Ops chief has an operations of +100% and 100 CTR. Outstanding, and not so great at the same time.

What ever the case, 3 years is a ridiculously long time to have to train a crew.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #178 on: August 17, 2013, 01:25:01 PM »
I agree, 3 years is definitely too long. I can´t remember it ever taking nearly that long in my games, however.

No clue as to what could be the reason for such a long training time.
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Offline Aloriel

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Re: Semi-Official 6.x Suggestion Thread
« Reply #179 on: August 17, 2013, 01:54:43 PM »
I suspect it's a combination of factors.

1) My current admiral of the TF is a fighter pilot glitch admiral. He's been admiral rank since he was 25 years old. So, his CTR is only 125. I'd put someone else in charge, but he's actually better than the *other* fighter pilot glitch admirals.

2) Operations officer of the TF has +100% ops, but only 100 CTR.

3) SO of the TG only has 275 CTR.

These produce a mediocre result, and I suspect the code scales things on a parabolic system instead of linear.

To me, training should be a maximum of 1 year in the worst case (no TF staff bonus, 25/50 CTR). Best case should be weeks, or perhaps a month. This would make the most sense realistically.
Sarah
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