C# Aurora Changes Discussion

[83athom]

1)  A, B have full tanks and C and D are empty.
2)  A-D all have (roughly) half-empty tanks.

Obviously #1 is the preferred (and realistic) behavior.  Reading the new rules post, it seems like we'll end up with #2.  Is there a way to avoid this?

By what I see, 2 is the preferred and the expected as I thought the refueling priorities would put the lowest fuel % first. So it would alternate fueling en-route between A and B for a week total, and C and D the another week total.

[alex_brunius]

By what I see, 2 is the preferred and the expected as I thought the refueling priorities would put the lowest fuel % first. So it would alternate fueling en-route between A and B for a week total, and C and D the another week total.

As lined out I'm not sure that the tanker will  care about fuel % level of targets when deciding what to refuel (depending on if "ship priority" changes with how much fuel they have left ):

"Each class & ship has a 'refuel priority', with higher numbers equalling higher priority. The tanker will refuel in descending order of ship priority, then by descending order of class priority"

That's the concern here I think ( sloanjh probably just mixed the 2 up ).

[83athom]

Ah. Therefore in order to refuel C and D you would either change refueling priorities mid flight or add a second tanker. Perhaps a third option would be to throw them all in a commercial super-carrier/mothership for the duration of the trip. That actually gives me an idea for a supply carrier that carries a squad of FACs to a colony as well as having a few maintenance modules on-board to supply the defense force while at the colony. That in turn gives me some other ideas for outpost defenses that I want to try out. I'm hyping myself for the update a bit too much.

[Steve Walmsley]

On new refueling post:

Let's say I've got 4 ships (A, B, C, D) in a fleet, along with tanker T.  T has enough refuel rate to refuel only two of the four while the fleet is moving.  The refuel priority is set to A,B,C,D.  Let's say it takes one week for any one of A-D to run their tanks dry without refueling, and that T has effectively unlimited fuel (i.e. plenty for the timescales we're talking about).

Now I give the fleet an order to move to a location that's two week's travel time away.  What happens after one week (without any micromanagement of refueling priorities)?  I see two possible behaviors:

1)  A, B have full tanks and C and D are empty.
2)  A-D all have (roughly) half-empty tanks.

Obviously #1 is the preferred (and realistic) behavior.  Reading the new rules post, it seems like we'll end up with #2.  Is there a way to avoid this?

Thanks,
John

You can put A, B and the tanker into a sub-fleet and only they will be refuelled (if you set tanker status to refuel sub-fleet)

[Erik L]

No suggestion thread, but configurable color schemes would be nice

[bean]

You can put A, B and the tanker into a sub-fleet and only they will be refuelled (if you set tanker status to refuel sub-fleet)

I'm reasonably sure he got his #1 and #2 mixed up there.  At the very least, if it had been my post, I would have written it with them swapped.

[ryuga81]

No suggestion thread, but configurable color schemes would be nice

Yep, that white-on-blue scheme is great for system/galactic maps, but having it everywhere (especially on big lists) looks quite tiring for the eyes :/

[Zincat]

Yep, that white-on-blue scheme is great for system/galactic maps, but having it everywhere (especially on big lists) looks quite tiring for the eyes :/

I hope for this as well Blue is kinda hard to read in my opinion.

And think of the roleplay possibilities! Wouldn't you like to set up a pink/neon green theme?!! Ok, maybe not 

[alex_brunius]

You can put A, B and the tanker into a sub-fleet and only they will be refuelled (if you set tanker status to refuel sub-fleet)

But can you prevent individual ships from running dry before all of the fleet runs dry when the tanker (with enough fuel ) lack transfer speed to transfer fuel to all ships and there are classes with different priority present?

It seems it would be quite micro intensive to be forced to either swap around ships into sub-fleets and back, or take frequent pauses to maximize the range of any given fleet with tanker where fuel transfer speed is the constraint?


Basically something similar to the "equalize fuel" function that ensures ships with lower fuel % get priority refueling.

[TCD]

But can you prevent individual ships from running dry before all of the fleet runs dry when the tanker (with enough fuel ) lack transfer speed to transfer fuel to all ships and there are classes with different priority present?

It seems it would be quite micro intensive to be forced to either swap around ships into sub-fleets and back, or take frequent pauses to maximize the range of any given fleet with tanker where fuel transfer speed is the constraint?


Basically something similar to the "equalize fuel" function that ensures ships with lower fuel % get priority refueling.

Isn't that the point of the change? To make it harder to extend the range of a fleet of ships with inadequate fuel tanks just by bunging in a tanker? Presumably if you set all refueling priorities the same then the ships with the lowest fuel will always get priority? And if you don't have enough transfer speed then you need more, smaller, tankers etc.

[alex_brunius]

Presumably if you set all refueling priorities the same then the ships with the lowest fuel will always get priority?

Yeah, that's what I want to know, and it's not clear.

I want the games logistical challenges to be due to lack of ship and tech capabilities, not due to lack of me wanting to micromanage stuff

[83athom]

Yeah, that's what I want to know, and it's not clear.

I want the games logistical challenges to be due to lack of ship and tech capabilities, not due to lack of me wanting to micromanage stuff

You need additional tankers or design the tanker with a larger capability to support a larger number of ships. This makes it so it may be more economical to build a multitude of "smaller" tankers (still pretty big) and divide them up for different task groups than it is now to build a giant fleet tanker that can support everyone.

[alex_brunius]

You need additional tankers or design the tanker with a larger capability to support a larger number of ships. This makes it so it may be more economical to build a multitude of "smaller" tankers (still pretty big) and divide them up for different task groups than it is now to build a giant fleet tanker that can support everyone.

Sure. But why should the game artificially make having to little fuel transfer speed worse then it has to be by having some ships fuel run out down to 0% while your tankers focus on keeping other ships topped up at 100%fuel

It makes no sense...

[83athom]

Sure. But why should the game artificially make having to little fuel transfer speed worse then it has to be by having some ships fuel run out down to 0% while your tankers focus on keeping other ships topped up at 100%fuel

It makes no sense...

Assume that the tanker can move fuel at the same rate as fuel is used and the tanker only has 2 "boom arms" to refuel ships with, and there there are 4 ships other than the tanker that needs fuel. Logic dictates that it can keep the 2 ships topped off while the other two are using fuel. When fuel starts to get low on the other two, logic dictates for the fleet to stop and fuel up the other two to full then continuing on. This whole discussion seems to be under the assumption that the ships are being chased and if they slow don they will blow up.

[TCD]

Sure. But why should the game artificially make having to little fuel transfer speed worse then it has to be by having some ships fuel run out down to 0% while your tankers focus on keeping other ships topped up at 100%fuel

It makes no sense...

Steve's changes list seems to make things pretty clear-

"Each tanker class has a minimum fuel setting (in the class window) and will not refuel ships once it falls below that level. Each class & ship has a 'refuel priority', with higher numbers equalling higher priority. The tanker will refuel in descending order of ship priority, then by descending order of class priority. The tanker will automatically move to a second ship (or more) if there is sufficient time and fuel remaining in the sub-pulse."

Isn't this just the same mechanism as for commander assignment? ie, you can set everything as the same priority (with the lowest fueled ship refueled first) or you can get fancy and try to keep your battlecruisers topped up to full even if it means your carrieres run out of fuel and have to stop. Your choice.