Posted by: Black
« on: December 10, 2012, 07:22:58 PM »Thank you, I think I understand this now.
Posted by: metalax
« on: December 10, 2012, 04:37:17 PM »Cost of the class. Is that the BP number in Class Design -> Full Summary View?
Yes.
Posted by: Black
« on: December 10, 2012, 03:54:51 PM »Cost of the class. Is that the BP number in Class Design -> Full Summary View?
Posted by: Conscript Gary
« on: December 10, 2012, 03:04:28 PM »As metalax said, that refit cost has to be less than 20% of the cost for the class the yard is tooled for.
Posted by: Black
« on: December 10, 2012, 02:12:01 PM »It is 807.5 other way. I actually have shipyard for cruiser 1 and another for cruiser 2. Cruiser 1 shipyard can also build destroyer but that's all.
Maybe it is because of the weapons? Cruiser 1 and destroyer are ASM platforms so they have same weapons. Cruiser 2 has AMM launchers and Gauss turrets.
Edit: Maybe I made a mistake. For destroyer the value is: refit cost from cruiser 1 is 533.75. Refit cost 1869.75 is the other way, so 533.75 is the number that decided that destroyer can be built in cruiser 1 shipyard?
Maybe it is because of the weapons? Cruiser 1 and destroyer are ASM platforms so they have same weapons. Cruiser 2 has AMM launchers and Gauss turrets.
Edit: Maybe I made a mistake. For destroyer the value is: refit cost from cruiser 1 is 533.75. Refit cost 1869.75 is the other way, so 533.75 is the number that decided that destroyer can be built in cruiser 1 shipyard?
Posted by: draanyk
« on: December 10, 2012, 02:01:44 PM »Is it 728.25 both ways? I thought I'd stumbled on a bug related to this with a couple of my designs, as the refit cost was clearly below the 20% value, until I switched to the other ship and saw that the refit cost was higher going the other way. Possibly if your shipyard is tooled for the newer cruiser, it might be able to build the old cruiser. DAC/Rank/Info should show that, to save you retooling to discover it.
Posted by: Black
« on: December 10, 2012, 01:09:59 PM »I have a question about this problematic and I don't want to start a new topic. I have a 15000t ship (light cruiser) and i can build a 10000t ship (destroyer) in the same shipyard, but I am not able to build another 15000t ship (light cruiser) in it. In DAC/rank/info refit cost between first cruiser and destroyer is 1869.75 an refit cost between the two cruisers is 728.25. I thought that lower number would mean that they can be built in same shipyard. But it seems that is not the case. So where exactly can I find the number that will tell me if the designs can be built in the same shipyard?
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: July 15, 2012, 04:26:24 AM »Thanks, that was exactly the information I wanted to understand about the refit mechanism. Now it's easier to understand when I can build two different ship types in the same yard. 
Posted by: metalax
« on: July 14, 2012, 08:04:59 PM »The base cost of a refit is the total cost of any components that have to be added to the original design in order to create the new one. Any components that are removed play no part in the cost.
To this base cost are applied two modifiers, one is a modifier based upon any change in tonnage between the two classes, iirc this is a flat 1 BP per 10 tons difference in size. The second is a refit overhead cost modifier of 25% that is applied to the base cost.
For a ship to be valid for building at a shipyard tooled for another class, this refit cost needs to be 20% or less of the cost of the tooled class.
To this base cost are applied two modifiers, one is a modifier based upon any change in tonnage between the two classes, iirc this is a flat 1 BP per 10 tons difference in size. The second is a refit overhead cost modifier of 25% that is applied to the base cost.
For a ship to be valid for building at a shipyard tooled for another class, this refit cost needs to be 20% or less of the cost of the tooled class.
Posted by: Nathan_
« on: July 14, 2012, 07:47:52 PM »Think in terms of refitting difficulty, that determines the eligible classes list:
Going from Attila to Galaxy has them tear out the troop module and replace it with the much cheaper cargo hold, but going from Galaxy to Attila has them rip out the cheap cargo hold and put in the more expensive troop transport module, and hence won't make the Attila an eligible class at a yard that can build Galaxies.
Going from Attila to Galaxy has them tear out the troop module and replace it with the much cheaper cargo hold, but going from Galaxy to Attila has them rip out the cheap cargo hold and put in the more expensive troop transport module, and hence won't make the Attila an eligible class at a yard that can build Galaxies.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: July 14, 2012, 07:31:57 PM »That I obviously know. 
What I want to know is what influence the refit price to understand how to construct my ship in a way they can be built in the same yards.
As an example from the classes above.
I have a refit cost from the Attila ship to the Galaxy class on about 520 build points and a cost of 93 build points to refit a Galaxy ship into an Attila ship.
I would like to know what drives thise refit cost. It would not have to be specific just enough to understand how it works and why.
What I want to know is what influence the refit price to understand how to construct my ship in a way they can be built in the same yards.
As an example from the classes above.
I have a refit cost from the Attila ship to the Galaxy class on about 520 build points and a cost of 93 build points to refit a Galaxy ship into an Attila ship.
I would like to know what drives thise refit cost. It would not have to be specific just enough to understand how it works and why.
Posted by: Nathan_
« on: July 14, 2012, 05:49:20 PM »If what you want is a list of available classes the DAC/Rank/Info tab on the ship design screen has eligible classes listed.
Posted by: Person012345
« on: July 13, 2012, 09:02:27 PM »Look at the refit price, not the total price.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: July 13, 2012, 07:18:08 PM »Unfortunately it did not make me much wiser, but I will check the price of the ships without the modules.
I actually have Cargo Handling modules on the ships, I just forgot to add them during the design I pasted into my above post.
I actually have Cargo Handling modules on the ships, I just forgot to add them during the design I pasted into my above post.
Posted by: Nathan_
« on: July 13, 2012, 06:25:04 PM »scrapping components are figured into the cost I think. What is the cost of your troop transport without the troop modules? vs the cost of the freighter as a whole. cargo holds are dirt cheap so they can replace lots of components easily.
also as an aside try out cargo handling systems on your ships.
also as an aside try out cargo handling systems on your ships.
