Author Topic: Advanced spy ship  (Read 3427 times)

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Offline Stardust (OP)

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Advanced spy ship
« on: August 10, 2013, 10:26:19 AM »
It might be a little hard to see, but what do you all think of this?


Spy class Scout    14,000 tons     1413 Crew     11293.4 BP      TCS 19.6  TH 306  EM 0
18214 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1200/1200/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.74 Years     MSP 5042    AFR 156%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 965    5YR 14468    Max Repair 1200 MSP

J14000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 14000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 TH06 (17)    Power 300    Fuel Use 25%    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 650,000 Litres    Range 334.3 billion km   (212 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH50-1200 (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-1200 (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 7% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 

Offline Rolepgeek

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2013, 11:41:29 AM »
First, you should put it in quotes like so:

Code: [Select]
Spy class Scout    14,000 tons     1413 Crew     11293.4 BP      TCS 19.6  TH 306  EM 0
18214 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1200/1200/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.74 Years     MSP 5042    AFR 156%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 965    5YR 14468    Max Repair 1200 MSP

J14000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 14000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 TH06 (17)    Power 300    Fuel Use 25%    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 650,000 Litres    Range 334.3 billion km   (212 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH50-1200 (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-1200 (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 7% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Second of all, I think it's too big. I get why you're making it so big, to fit the Drives and sensors, but I'd aim for maybe an 8000 Ton vessel, preferably 3000 Ton. Cheaper to use, harder to detect, and less of a loss if it dies.

Also, it is extremely expensive, but I've also never made it past magneto-plasma.
 

Offline niflheimr

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2013, 12:10:55 PM »
With the 7% cloak it's decent.

What you can do is reduce the size of that EM sensor - at that tech level active run in the tens of thousand of GSP so it's a bit overkill . Also i'd reduce the number of engines - it should decrease the crew amount slightly and make it more efficient - just design a bigger engine to fit.

You might consider adding a size 10 or 20 reduce size launcher and a couple of mags to fit some thermal/em buoys - they work wonders for covering jump points :)
 

Offline Whitecold

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2013, 12:40:02 PM »
I would decide if your scout either uses speed or stealth as defense, doing both uses up a lot of mass for engines, cloak, which eat even more with the jump generator. I have to say I don't know what your standard fleet speed is, but less power means less thermal signature regardless of your reduction tech, so both tactics are competing.
I'd prefer a cheaper and smaller vessel, but I have to say I never reached those tech levels either
 

Offline Stardust (OP)

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 12:28:46 PM »
Thank you all for your comments.  Here's where I'm at:

Quote
Fox class Scout    6,000 tons     612 Crew     3571.8 BP      TCS 8.4  TH 72  EM 0
10000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1200/240/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.89 Years     MSP 1860    AFR 57%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 328    5YR 4923    Max Repair 1200 MSP

J6000-10(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 6000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 TH06 (4)    Power 300    Fuel Use 25%    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 180.0 billion km   (208 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH50-1200 (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-240 (1)     Sensitivity 240     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  240m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 7% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 

Offline Rolepgeek

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 09:46:21 PM »
Hmmmm...What I'd do, is make a fleet of them. Make one with an EM, one with a Thermal, and one with the jump drive. Makes them smaller and faster to build.
 

Offline Stardust (OP)

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 04:18:49 PM »
Primarily intended to find bad guys without them finding us, they're also tasked with furthering our knowledge of what exists beyond.

Quote
SEM class Scout    3,200 tons     326 Crew     2137 BP      TCS 3.2  TH 36  EM 0
9375 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-19     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/480/5/5     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.35 Years     MSP 1252    AFR 27%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 73    5YR 1099    Max Repair 480 MSP

J3500(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 3500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 TH06 (2)    Power 300    Fuel Use 25%    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 337.5 billion km   (416 days at full power)

EM Detection Sensor EM20-480 (1)     Sensitivity 480     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  480m km
Phased Gravitational Sensors (1)   5 Survey Points Per Hour
Phased Geological Sensors (1)   5 Survey Points Per Hour
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 5% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Quote
STH class Scout    3,200 tons     341 Crew     1891 BP      TCS 3.2  TH 36  EM 0
9375 km/s     Armour 1-19     Shields 0-0     Sensors 816/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 0
Maint Life 7.56 Years     MSP 2216    AFR 13%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 68    5YR 1024    Max Repair 816 MSP

Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 TH06 (2)    Power 300    Fuel Use 25%    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 337.5 billion km   (416 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH34-816 (1)     Sensitivity 816     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  816m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 5% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Thank you all for your help.
 

Offline Stardust (OP)

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2013, 01:00:54 PM »
The Nagumo class Escort Carrier is designed to carry a task group consisting of a pair of the scouts wherever they are needed, independently or as a part of a battle task force.

Quote
Nagumo class Escort Carrier    14,000 tons     906 Crew     4165.4 BP      TCS 280  TH 6000  EM 0
21428 km/s     Armour 1-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.35 Years     MSP 2045    AFR 142%    IFR 2%    1YR 174    5YR 2605    Max Repair 150 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 6500 tons     

Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 (20)    Power 300    Fuel Use 25%    Signature 300    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,200,000 Litres    Range 617.1 billion km   (333 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline bobterrius

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2013, 04:35:58 PM »
No jump drive for your escort carrier?
 

Offline Stardust (OP)

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2013, 10:32:02 PM »
As a group, the scouts themselves are jump capable and not reliant on the carrier.  After redesigning my scout ships to be smaller, stealthier, and slower, I wanted a way to get them to the front as fast as possible.

As an independent survey or advance surveillance group, the carrier will take the scouts as far as possible and desired before launching.  My battle task forces are accompanied by at least one 70,000 ton jump ship.
 

Offline bobterrius

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 04:45:04 AM »
Ok.

And do you have any stealth and jump capable  carrier to make "lone wolf sneaking mission style" without the support of the main battle fleet?
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 06:08:43 AM »
I would not make this ship smaller than the one you originally had, I might actually make it bigger. With that cloak it will be very hard to spot anyway. I would also consider much cheaper engines, perhaps even commercial (or close to) engines and/or use less engines. Everything to reduce the cost, this ship does not have to be fast and really don't want to move fast in enemy space anyway. I would be satisfied with a speed of 5-8000 km/s, any more than that is just overkill.

I would also include a 1-2000 spaces of hangars so I can bring a few 500ton scout vessels with active/passive scanning equipment, these can be much faster. No reason to ever expose or endanger your scout ship. One additional benefit is that you now also can use it as a survey cruiser by station 500ton geological survey shuttles. Add a graviton sensor on the ship and it also become your primary survey cruiser AND scout/recon cruiser.

In general it is also more efficient to build your ships bigger, especially at those tech levels. Because they become cheaper, faster to upgrade. Small ships are more expensive resource wise in the long run when you consider upgrades and retooling of naval yards and stuff like that. This is especially true with ships that you build in limited number.

It would also be helpful to know what speed and tech level your enemy ships use and what their other capabilities are. That would most likely influence the type of scout ships you would build.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 06:31:40 AM by Jorgen_CAB »
 

Offline Stardust (OP)

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 11:14:48 AM »
And do you have any stealth and jump capable  carrier to make "lone wolf sneaking mission style" without the support of the main battle fleet?

No.  I expect that the two scouts will operate on their own most of the time, using the carriers as transports if necessary.  Being jump capable themselves, they can provide advance surveillance for any operation.

Since my empire is rather vast, with jump gates connecting all populated systems, I wanted a fast ship that can deliver a pair of slower, stealthier scouts to the outskirts.  The escort carrier itself will remain in protected space.  Before entering any unprotected system, the scouts will take a look before the carrier comes through.  If things go awry, the carrier's speed will give them an advantage.


I would not make this ship smaller than the one you originally had, I might actually make it bigger. With that cloak it will be very hard to spot anyway. I would also consider much cheaper engines, perhaps even commercial (or close to) engines and/or use less engines. Everything to reduce the cost, this ship does not have to be fast and really don't want to move fast in enemy space anyway. I would be satisfied with a speed of 5-8000 km/s, any more than that is just overkill.

The sole purpose of the escort carrier is to transport a pair of the new scouts to a far away assignment quickly while itself remaining in friendly territory.  The SEM and STH class scouts are the quiet, cloaked, jump capable ships with the scouting and surveying equipment.

I would also include a 1-2000 spaces of hangars so I can bring a few 500ton scout vessels with active/passive scanning equipment, these can be much faster. No reason to ever expose or endanger your scout ship. One additional benefit is that you now also can use it as a survey cruiser by station 500ton geological survey shuttles. Add a graviton sensor on the ship and it also become your primary survey cruiser AND scout/recon cruiser.

The escort carrier has hangar deck space for 6500 tons, enough for a pair of the 3200 ton scouts.  I also considered active sensors on the escort carrier but thought that the strong passive sensors on the scouts would be enough to evade most enemy fleets.  The carriers will typically remain in protected space and active sensors on the scouts defeat the purpose of their main mission; finding bad guys without them finding us.  Maybe my technology will reach a point where I can design a functional active sensor with minimal EM emissions and extremely sensitive EM detection.

Enough space was available on the SEM class for the latest gravitational and geological sensors, but couldn't fit the strong passive sensors on fighter sized ships.  As my technology increases, this may become a viable option.

In general it is also more efficient to build your ships bigger, especially at those tech levels. Because they become cheaper, faster to upgrade. Small ships are more expensive resource wise in the long run when you consider upgrades and retooling of naval yards and stuff like that. This is especially true with ships that you build in limited number.

Efficiency is not a big concern.  I have absurd amounts of cash, resources, shipyards, and industrial capacity.

It would also be helpful to know what speed and tech level your enemy ships use and what their other capabilities are. That would most likely influence the type of scout ships you would build.

My only enemies at this time are the precursors who seem to be around the same speed as these new scouts.  Unless they happen upon a very quiet enemy fleet, the scouts on their own (9375 km/s) should have no difficulty evading and escaping.  As for their other capabilities, nobody I've met so far can even hope to challenge us.  The scout's engines put out little heat and have a detectable cross section of a 150 ton ship.

My current battle fleets move at around 15,000 km/s, soon to be north of 17,000 km/s.


 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 12:21:28 PM »
My remark was more directed at the original design and not against the carrier design you currently use.

I understand if you have so many resources that optimising isn't of any concern to you then going for pure designs is perhaps the best thing to do. That way each ship do one thing only and do it very well. Personally I never find myself in those situations very often, perhaps that is because I always give the AI hefty bonuses and with conventional starts so I just assumed that this always is a problem... ;)

The escort carrier has hangar deck space for 6500 tons, enough for a pair of the 3200 ton scouts.  I also considered active sensors on the escort carrier but thought that the strong passive sensors on the scouts would be enough to evade most enemy fleets.  The carriers will typically remain in protected space and active sensors on the scouts defeat the purpose of their main mission; finding bad guys without them finding us.  Maybe my technology will reach a point where I can design a functional active sensor with minimal EM emissions and extremely sensitive EM detection.

The whole purpose of smaller platforms with active (and a small EM passive sensor) is that you can use them as spotters for your battle-fleets and scan them to see exactly what ships they have. Smaller platforms can generally be much faster as far as fuel is concerned and thus trail the enemy while they have no chance to engage them. You don't really care if these 500t scouts is detected because they are very hard to engage being so small and fast. Larger missile cruisers will not need to turn on their active sensors and reveal their position to fire their missiles.




Anyway, what I suggested was more a resource/time efficient design that also would be a multi-purpose platform.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 12:32:10 PM by Jorgen_CAB »
 

Offline Stardust (OP)

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Re: Advanced spy ship
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2013, 07:50:55 AM »
My remark was more directed at the original design and not against the carrier design you currently use.

I understand if you have so many resources that optimising isn't of any concern to you then going for pure designs is perhaps the best thing to do. That way each ship do one thing only and do it very well. Personally I never find myself in those situations very often, perhaps that is because I always give the AI hefty bonuses and with conventional starts so I just assumed that this always is a problem... ;)

The whole purpose of smaller platforms with active (and a small EM passive sensor) is that you can use them as spotters for your battle-fleets and scan them to see exactly what ships they have. Smaller platforms can generally be much faster as far as fuel is concerned and thus trail the enemy while they have no chance to engage them. You don't really care if these 500t scouts is detected because they are very hard to engage being so small and fast. Larger missile cruisers will not need to turn on their active sensors and reveal their position to fire their missiles.




Anyway, what I suggested was more a resource/time efficient design that also would be a multi-purpose platform.



I see what you are saying.  Modify the original single ship design with more efficient engines and to include hangar space for small survey craft.  The active sensor idea may work on a small survey craft.  It can briefly ping any ships found with passive sensors without the cloaked ship having to come out of hiding.

This is still my first game (version 5.60) after discovering Aurora and have been having so much fun managing my vast empire that I've avoided upgrading to 6.21 and starting a new game.  When I do, I'll probable go with a conventional start.

Thanks for your comments.