v4.1 'Big' changes in a relatively friendly looking list

[Beersatron (OP)]

I started this thread as a question on installation tonnages and cargo hold sizes but I have changed it to hold some of the 'big' changes implemented for v4.1.

Hopefully myself or somebody else will get this added into the wiki at some point, but for now I hope somebody finds this helpful.

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Installation sizes (and other things related to cargo holds)

You no longer need jump gate components in v4.1. Construction Ships can build jump gates by themselves.

For the rest:
Regular factories, Mines etc. require 5 cargo holds
PDC components require 1 cargo hold
Trade goods require half a cargo hold, as does infrastructure
A research lab requires 100 cargo holds but you can transport sections of it
Terraforming installations require 25 cargo holds and you can transport those in sections too
2500 tons of minerals will fit in one cargo hold

Steve

Commercial versus Naval Shipyards

Commercial ships build slowly compared to a naval vessel of the same size. That isn't usually a problem because commercial ships are usually much larger and larger ships build faster so it evens itself out. Large but relatively cheap ships are best in commercial shipyards. Small, expensive commercial vessels are very slow to build. Commercial shipyards can be increased in size really quickly compared to naval shipyards and far more cheaply in both money and minerals so very large commercial shipyards are easy to get. The downside is that commercial vessels are are treated as one quarter their actual size in terms of build speed and you can only build 'commercial vessels' in commercial shipyards. That is fine for a 40,000 ton freighter that only costs 400 BP but for a 10,000 ton commercial geosurvey ship that costs 1200 BP, it will be incredibly slow. A naval shipyard can build a military version of the geosurvey ship more quickly but couldn't build the freighter because it is far too big.

The actual formula for build rate is:

Class Size is tons/50
If Commercial Vessel = True Then Class Size = Class Size / 4

BRMultiple = ClassSize / 100
BRMultiple = 1 + ((BRMultiple - 1) / 2)
Actual Build Rate = BRMultiple * Racial SY Build Rate

I guess the bottom line is, if you want a commercial geosurvey ship that uses little fuel and doesn't require maintenance, you can get one but it will be slow to build and probably slow in tactical terms. A military version will be smaller and faster and will be built much quicker but it will require maintenance and it will use more fuel.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

Steve,

Could you give a run down on the size in tons for each installation, how big jump gate components are and the size of one unit of ore (are all ore types the same tonnage at 1 unit?) and anything that can be transported by a freighter or similar? Would be handy for designing transports, asteroid miners, jump gate construction ships and sorium miners.

You no longer need jump gate components in v4.1. Construction Ships can build jump gates by themselves.

For the rest:
Regular factories, Mines etc. require 5 cargo holds
PDC components require 1 cargo hold
Trade goods require half a cargo hold, as does infrastructure
A research lab requires 100 cargo holds but you can transport sections of it
Terraforming installations require 25 cargo holds and you can transport those in sections too
2500 tons of minerals will fit in one cargo hold

Steve

[Thorgarth]

Steve,

Thank you.  The cargo requirements are useful.  Started up 4.1beta last night.  I've been trying to find what would make a  "good" large and small freighter design since.

Can't wait to try out the updates/upgrades.

Thank you,
Thorgarth

[Steve Walmsley]

Steve,

Thank you.  The cargo requirements are useful.  Started up 4.1beta last night.  I've been trying to find what would make a  "good" large and small freighter design since.

Can't wait to try out the updates/upgrades.

Thank you,
Thorgarth

I have been playing about with designs in my test game. With the improvement in build rates for larger ships, I think in the case of freighters bigger is probably better. The larger of these first two is about double the cost of the smaller one but it is faster and because of the improved build rate for larger ships, it will only take about 20% longer to build. So once you expand your commercial shipyards, the bigger freighter is probably the best way to go, although I guess smaller = more flexible. Colony ships is a little more difficult as you have far more flexibility in terms of size.

Code: [Select]

Ocean class Freighter    33550 tons     221 Crew     445.8 BP      TCS 671  TH 900  EM 0
1341 km/s     Armour 1-92     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maintenance Capacity 8 MSP    Max Repair 38 MSP
Cargo 25000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 10    

Commercial Ion Engine (6)    Power 150    Efficiency 0.08    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 67.1 billion km   (578 days at full power)

Code: [Select]

Pacific class Freighter    69150 tons     469 Crew     887.4 BP      TCS 1383  TH 2100  EM 0
1518 km/s     Armour 1-150     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maintenance Capacity 8 MSP    Max Repair 38 MSP
Cargo 50000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 20    

Commercial Ion Engine (14)    Power 150    Efficiency 0.08    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 48.8 billion km   (372 days at full power)This is a 25 hold design, capable of carrying five factories or an entire terraforming installation. It only takes slightly longer to build than the 10 hold version and is cheaper on a per-hold basis.

Code: [Select]

Atlantis class Freighter    172200 tons     1161 Crew     2121 BP      TCS 3444  TH 5250  EM 0
1524 km/s     Armour 1-275     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maintenance Capacity 8 MSP    Max Repair 38 MSP
Cargo 125000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 50    

Commercial Ion Engine (35)    Power 150    Efficiency 0.08    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 45.7 billion km   (347 days at full power)Steve

[sloanjh]

Commercial ships build slowly compared to a naval vessel of the same size. That isn't usually a problem because commercial ships are usually much larger and larger ships build faster so it evens itself out. Large but relatively cheap ships are best in commercial shipyards. Small, expensive commercial vessels are very slow to build. Commercial shipyards can be increased in size really quickly compared to naval shipyards and far more cheaply in both money and minerals so very large commercial shipyards are easy to get. The downside is that commercial vessels are are treated as one quarter their actual size in terms of build speed and you can only build 'commercial vessels' in commercial shipyards. That is fine for a 40,000 ton freighter that only costs 400 BP but for a 10,000 ton commercial geosurvey ship that costs 1200 BP, it will be incredibly slow. A naval shipyard can build a military version of the geosurvey ship more quickly but couldn't build the freighter because it is far too big.

The actual formula for build rate is:

Class Size is tons/50
If Commercial Vessel = True Then Class Size = Class Size / 4

BRMultiple = ClassSize / 100
BRMultiple = 1 + ((BRMultiple - 1) / 2)
Actual Build Rate = BRMultiple * Racial SY Build Rate

I guess the bottom line is, if you want a commercial geosurvey ship that uses little fuel and doesn't require maintenance, you can get one but it will be slow to build and probably slow in tactical terms. A military version will be smaller and faster and will be built much quicker but it will require maintenance and it will use more fuel.

Steve

I just realized that for huge (i.e. >20Kton Military or >80Kton Commercial) ships, the build time saturates to being proportional to the cost/HS, rather than to the total cost.  I don't think this is a bad thing - I can see such a huge ship being built in parallel sections, with the time depending on the cost/section.  It's messing me up, however, on trying to decide the relative pros and cons of freighter designs - if I'm more concerned with build rate of capacity than total cost of capacity, it's hard to get a feel for whether I should add that extra engine.

Could you put the build time (given the race's current build rate) on the class design page somewhere, e.g. next to the build cost?

Thanks,
John

[Steve Walmsley]

Could you put the build time (given the race's current build rate) on the class design page somewhere, e.g. next to the build cost?

Build Time is the last field in the Primary Information section on the left hand side of the Class window.

Steve

[sloanjh]

Could you put the build time (given the race's current build rate) on the class design page somewhere, e.g. next to the build cost?

Build Time is the last field in the Primary Information section on the left hand side of the Class window.

Steve

Never mind

John