Author Topic: Exploring with Efficiency  (Read 2196 times)

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Offline Theodidactus (OP)

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Exploring with Efficiency
« on: July 02, 2014, 02:29:07 PM »
sounds like a management seminar

Anyway, I'm about to build a fleet of science vessels to gain some better understanding of the far-flung regions of known space. My explorers will need to be long ranged and fuel efficient. The intent is for them to do comprehensive gravity and geological surveys of entire systems very quickly, in a year or less.

This raises an interesting question: is it more fuel-and-resource efficient to survey an entire system using a few large ships or a fleet of tiny survey craft?

My initial design plans were for a mighty "survey carrier" with sorium scoops that would disgorge fleets of 750 ton geosurvey vessels, the carrier and its two escort ships would be loaded with gravity sensors and survey the system for jump points at the same time...but I realized this would actually burn a lot of fuel, because those geosurvey vessels would have extremely inefficient fast-burning engines, and they'd probably eat up a lot more fuel than they'd save, esp since deployment time can't realistically exceed a few years, and sorium scoops are slooow.

What combination of ships (and on ships, scoops, sensors, and engines), in your expert opinion, will yield the most time and fuel efficient survey of an entire system AND allow a fleet to survey many systems?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 02:47:52 PM by Theodidactus »
My Theodidactus, now I see that you are excessively simple of mind and more gullible than most. The Crystal Sphere you seek cannot be found in nature, look about you...wander the whole cosmos, and you will find nothing but the clear sweet breezes of the great ethereal ocean enclosed not by any bound
 

Offline NihilRex

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Re: Exploring with Efficiency
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 04:42:59 PM »
Build Survey Fighters (500ton or less) of both kinds, geo and grav.  Make a small engine with low power, for the fuel efficiency.  5\6\10 Grav survey fighters + however many GEVfighters will fit in the hangar bay.  Give the carrier a huge fuel load and supply capacity.

5\6\10 will survey in 6\5\3 waves.  The lower top speed won't be such an issue since there will be fewer spots each fighter has to reach.

Personally, I design ships around 6-8ktons, with geo and grav onboard, as well as a JD and thermal sensors.  If tech allows, I include a Missile Alert sensor, and some firepower, ranging from boxed Missiles to interceptor suites, depending on tech level.

They enter the system, scan the planets and asteroids, then move on to the grav survey.  Speed is low, but with 4 entering each system, the jobs gets done relatively quick, and in case of spoilers or NPR, I can usually detect them and get most of the group out of the system.

Overall, it comes down to personal preference and level of tolerable risk.

Code: [Select]
Astronomer class Gravitational Survey Vessel    7 200 tons     168 Crew     2087.6 BP      TCS 10.08  TH 20.48  EM 1200
1777 km/s    JR 6-100     Armour 4-33     Shields 40-300     Sensors 24/1/10/5     Damage Control Rating 34     PPV 9.9
Maint Life 3.57 Years     MSP 670    AFR 112%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 81    5YR 1217    Max Repair 300 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 126   

Apollo Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 7200 tons    Distance 100k km     Squadron Size 6
Scout Drive m1 (4)    Power 64    Fuel Use 0.4%    Signature 5.12    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 95 000 Litres    Range 593.5 billion km   (3865 days at full power)
Xi R300/300 Shields (8)   Total Fuel Cost  100 Litres per hour  (2 400 per day)

Small Assault Launcher m1 (10)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 260
Sprint Missile Control m1 (1)     Range 109.3m km    Resolution 10
Sparrow (42)  Speed: 99 200 km/s   End: 20.6m    Range: 122.5m km   WH: 4    Size: 3    TH: 496/297/148

Std Sensor Pkg m1 (1)     GPS 2400     Range 57.6m km    Resolution 100
Missile Alert (1)     GPS 24     Range 5.8m km    MCR 627k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km
Phased Gravitational Sensors (2)   10 Survey Points Per Hour
Phased Geological Sensors (1)   5 Survey Points Per Hour
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 7% of normal

ECM 50
 

Offline sublight

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Re: Exploring with Efficiency
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 08:43:32 PM »
Hanger carried geo/grav fighters/FAC is one method. Another would be to use several medium sized ships powered by commercial engines.

Not only will that save fuel, but splitting the geosurvey sensors and jump drives out onto designated commercial ship designs will eliminates maintenance costs on half the scout fleet.
 

Offline Brian Neumann

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Re: Exploring with Efficiency
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2014, 03:52:16 AM »
I generally like smallish commercial vessels for survey work.  The Geo survey ships are commercial and around 3-5,000 tons.  They are actually fairly quick for commercial ships because they are so small, but they are also very fuel efficient.  The Grav survey ships are identical except for the survey instruments.  They are Military, but have good endurance as nothing costs a lot on board so their maintenance requirements are low.  Late game I will include a carrier with a hanger bay able to take 1 survey ship in for repair work.  That will usually be stocked with fighters for fleet defense.  Except for the fighters there are no weapons.  Active and passive sensors are size 1, ships have a few 3-5 layers of armor and maybe a ciws system.

Brian
 

Offline Vandermeer

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Re: Exploring with Efficiency
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2014, 06:45:37 AM »
Though I use survey drone carriers too, they mostly become really fast methods of survey on later game stages when speed and fuel efficiency find to the point where they can do it on a single tank fill.(speed because the power grade can be dropped to save much more than fuel efficiency can actually do)

My favorite one for long range survey is however something in the range of a 15k stealth scout. That size allows it to strap on not only the largest (most efficient) commercial engines, but also a full size thermal sensor, so it actively snoops out every new system for presence of enemies, while being pretty silent and undetectable itself. The engines here must use maximum available thermal dampening of course, and maybe you'd want a stealth cloak on it too, just in case.
Downside is that the sensors and stealth makes it a military design, so it will need overhaul after around 4 systems or so. It proved to be ok for me though. ..And it eliminates micromanagement as all I have to do is point it to a new site and then wait. In one game I separated the design in grav and geo vessels; then combined both in the last game... . Up to taste.
Ctrl+F Search in this thread after "Optolith" to find the design I used at that time (SPOILER, so I don't repost it here):http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,6738.0.html
This is a bit oversize, because I didn't really care in the game anymore. I would keep it to two engines to keep the thermal in boundaries.
playing Aurora as swarm fleet: Zen Nomadic Hive Fantasy
 

Offline Prince of Space

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Re: Exploring with Efficiency
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2014, 09:28:32 AM »
Ironically, in my experience this is a management issue.

In my games I use task groups with four gravsurveyors and one support/jump ship. I prefer jumping into the system, splitting up the TG into individual ships, and setting the surveyors to automatically survey. The problem is they don't always pick the most efficient path around the system.

Sometimes a pair will work their way around one of the rings of survey locations in opposite directions. When they meet on the other side they'll move out to the next ring, but they pick points that aren't adjacent. For instance, one goes to 21, then moves counterclockwise, and another goes to 23, then moves clockwise, leaving 22 to be mopped up later, typically by a ship that's on the far side of the system. Or the first ship to finish its laps will try to snag the last available survey point (again, Murphy's Law makes it the furthest distance possible) despite the fact that there's another ship at an adjacent point that is five minutes away from finishing up and scooting over to grab that last one.

I can micromanage the fleet, either assigning the surveys manually or watching them like a neurotic helicopter parent so I can correct their mistakes as they occur. But there's so much else to manage, like research and construction and mining and ship allocations. Personally I just accept that they're going to do it their way, and count the costs in time and fuel as the price of not concerning myself.

It would be nice if the AI were sophisticated enough for the ships to coordinate and say to each other "It's cool. I'll get this one. Don't hoof it all the way across the star system just for this straggler," or "Woops, we missed one. I'll knock that one out next so we don't have to come back this way later," but that's probably too much to ask. The AI would need to know my plans for where the TG will move to once the survey is over and factor that into some form of the Travelling Salesman Problem.

This kind of inefficiency is most easily avoided by having just one survey ship. Or embracing the micromanagement, but that's troublesome with multiple TGs in multiple far-flung systems. If you're planning on multi-year missions with minimal tanker support, a one-surveyor-per-system policy should reduce the fuel burden. If you want it done fast, you want more survey sensors in the system, and putting them on one hull ups the per-ship tonnage, which has its own costs.
 

Offline Cocyte

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Re: Exploring with Efficiency
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 11:32:11 AM »
I am a big fan of the "survey carrier" method.
The micromanagement is not that bad - the worst issue is probably checking the fuel level of the various survey fighters. (the warning at 10% fuel is not really useful when the little bird is on the other side of Altair system...).
It can be solved by using the conditionnal refill orders, but those might act stupid sometime as they are based on the % of remaining fuel

For geosurvey ships, you can reduce the amount of "poorly chosen survey locations" by selecting the "survey next 5 body" order - the selection will includes planets/moons close from each others when possible.