How do I set up minefields?

[RikerPicard (OP)]

Am I right in assuming mines are multi stage missiles with little to no fuel and an active sensor, fired at a waypoint? Any other particulars to keep in mind?

[Thanatos]

That's pretty much all there is to it. The second stage should however have fuel.

[83athom]

To lay the mines, you in order;
1) Set a waypoint as a target.
2) Click fire on the fire control that controls the mines.
3) Delete the waypoint.
4) Increment time.

The mines themselves shouldn't have any fuel. Also, you can use passive sensors on the mines instead of active sensors, if you have active sensors on the missiles themselves.

[TMaekler]

Are there any designs out there showing a functioning mine?

[RikerPicard (OP)]

I'd love to see one too. I designed a buoy with thermals, and a second stage with engines and actives, but wasn't sure how specifically to design them. The second stage warhead with active sensors does 4 damage, and has 5 minutes of fuel, but my questions involve how defenseless a jumped fleet really is;

-I know sensors and shields will be offline, so point defense isn't an issue

-How much range and hit chance do I need? How far away from the JP would the targets be, can they start moving top speed immediately, etc.

[83athom]

Jump blindness is a serious threat to a fleet, and mines is one way to knock them out before they can reactivate.

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 44.9999 MSP  (2.249995 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 6.0367    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6 036 700 km
Cost Per Missile: 58.7183
Second Stage: Size 15 Anti-ship Missile x2
Second Stage Separation Range: 6 000 000 km
Overall Endurance: 11 minutes   Overall Range: 14.0m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    24.5x Tritanium   9.3816x Boronide   15.6367x Uridium   9.2x Gallicite   Fuel x2000

Development Cost for Project: 5872RP
And the sub munition;

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 15 MSP  (0.75 HS)     Warhead: 49    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 21300 km/s    Engine Endurance: 11 minutes   Range: 14.2m km
Active Sensor Strength: 4.8   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 200    Maximum Range vs 10000 ton object (or larger): 7 460 000 km
Cost Per Missile: 24.53
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 255.6%   3k km/s 84%   5k km/s 51.1%   10k km/s 25.6%
Materials Required:    12.25x Tritanium   2.88x Boronide   4.8x Uridium   4.6x Gallicite   Fuel x1000

Development Cost for Project: 2453RP

In this game, my main enemies seemed to use 10k ton ships and 20k ton ships, focusing on missiles, with a thermal signature of 1500 - 2500. These were able to intercept enemy groups before they flipped active sensors on, meaning they probably didn't have any thermal or EM sensors.
In other games I've used smaller missiles (size 3 - size 6) in mines and they did pretty well. Note that this mine is a general purpose mine that I also seed into asteroid belts (for RP) and you should make dedicated JP guard mines that have a range of detection/flight of about 1-5 million km.

Checklist when designing mines/sub-munitions
Enemy sensor profile; Design the mine base to detect the enemies most predominant signature. The base should be able to detect the signature from under the range of the sub-munition (so it doesn't fire from beyond range). The sub-munition should be able to then detect the enemy while its on its way to the fire point (so it doesn't need to see the target immediately), so you can save a bit of space on the missiles there.
Enemy tonnage; For larger targets, you would want larger missiles. For smaller targets it is vise-versa.
Tech level; Do you have enough tech that you can design a sub-munition that doesn't sacrifice too much effectiveness against targets?

[Paul M]

Sensors will be off-line but shields will be online.  Only an idiot jumps through a hostile JP with shields down.  The existance of passive sensors on the ships is not relevant as they can't engage the mines even if they pick them up on their passives.  Sensors will remain offline for a random period of time...from 30 to 90 seconds if my memory is correct.  So you want to have your mines hit them in 10-15 seconds.  I am also not sure if CIWS are blocked or if they will fire regardless.

As for the range of deployment, you need to know the maximum jump range of the target.  If it is 50K then you have to set up your mine field to cover a diamter of 100K centered on the jump point.  I usually use groups of mines spread out over that area to cover it, but my mines have a fairly short engagement range.   If you have millions of km you can just put them in one place if you want.  I'm also not sure how it works for splitting up between targets, so I'd make sure that your sub munitions have their own sensors so that hopefully they will retarget.

Missile impact calculations use the ships current maximum possible speed.  If a ship could move a 3000 km/s but the ship is set so it is moving at 1 km/s the missiles chance to hit is calculated based on the value 3000 km/s.  Also right after a jump ships can move any velocity they wish (up to their maximum) and usually they execute a "get out of dodge" manuever or a "move to the jump point" manuever.

I have to admit the one time a wolver got close to a minefield the mines didn't trigger but I'm not sure if the ship never got close enough or if the wolver ECM also plays a role here.  I have to admit I have some worry my Mk2 mines may not fire...but so far as I can tell they are designed right.  Which makes me wonder if ECM plays a role in mine field engagement range.

[83athom]

I am also not sure if CIWS are blocked or if they will fire regardless.

CIWS does engage during jump blindness.

Which makes me wonder if ECM plays a role in mine field engagement range.

It does play a roll in the actual detection by the mine, which in turn affects launch distance in many cases.

[Paul M]

CIWS does engage during jump blindness.It does play a roll in the actual detection by the mine, which in turn affects launch distance in many cases.

ah hah well that answers that...blasted wolver tech advantages!  I think the Mk2 mine will get them though as it has a longer sensor range...so they can't sneak out of the mine triggering any more.  I solved partially the issue with the short sensor range by just seeding the mines all over the place so that they have to be close to one or another mine groups.

Does the ECM effect the sensor range or the seperation range?

[83athom]

Does the ECM effect the sensor range or the seperation range?

Sensor range, but if the mine doesn't see the enemy until within separation range, it reduces the launch by association. I think.

[RikerPicard (OP)]

Sensors will be off-line but shields will be online.

Missile impact calculations use the ships current maximum possible speed.  If a ship could move a 3000 km/s but the ship is set so it is moving at 1 km/s the missiles chance to hit is calculated based on the value 3000 km/s.

Thanks, I definitely needed to know these 2 things. Another question relating to mine defense, is there a quick way to get the distance between 2 points, say JP and waypoint, or 2 waypoints?

[83athom]

Thanks, I definitely needed to know these 2 things. Another question relating to mine defense, is there a quick way to get the distance between 2 points, say JP and waypoint, or 2 waypoints?

Press Shift, then click and drag.