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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Last post by skoormit on Today at 08:51:46 AM »
I wish we could separate the Research Speed game setting into two settings: one for technology research, and the other for component design.

I play with research speed 20%, because I like stretching out the time between tech eras.
But I don't like that it also takes five times as long to design each new component.
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I've been playing with my galaxy layout, since I just found a connection that joined the far western side of my map with the far eastern side.

Does anyone with a better sense for these things have any idea how to make this constellation of jumps not be a total rat's nest?

I always aim to minimize the number of intersecting JP paths, but there's only so much you can do.

See the attached for some suggestions. After you do those, you might notice some further easy adjustments.

Don't worry: the longer your game goes, the more fun it gets. See the other attached for an example.
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I've been playing with my galaxy layout, since I just found a connection that joined the far western side of my map with the far eastern side.

Does anyone with a better sense for these things have any idea how to make this constellation of jumps not be a total rat's nest?

You just need to move them around a few at a time and try to figure it out. It's usually a fun problem to solve, trying to get the best layout. This is my current campaign, which has quite a few loops.

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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Last post by KriegsMeister on Today at 02:43:19 AM »
words

This is quite an effortful post and deserves far more credit than I can give it. As it happens, I shall have to suffice with a simple reply.

I'll not wade too deeply into the mechanics here, and keep my comments to a relatively high level. In short: I like the ideas, but I think it is rather too complex for the fidelity and mechanics of Aurora's ground combat as it currently stands, and I'd prefer to keep that simplicity where possible. Furthermore, I think we can accomplish a lot of this by simply repurposing the existing ground support fighter (GSF) mechanics in terms of targeting, combat, etc. so that we are adding a minimum of new mechanics and rules to the system.

A couple of mechanics notes:
Thank you, probably could merit its own individual suggestion thread, but I already had open as just a reply when I first started about ~60 hours ago. And don't worry I got pretty thick skin and after my last effort post forever ago try to reel back on my own abrasiveness. You do bring up some good and valid points, and I think we are both trying to think of the best and most simple ways to do this. I'd say my suggestion is focused more on using existing ground vehicle mechanics with some minor/major tweaks to replicate GSF mechanics, whereas you are trying to mesh GSF mechanics into ground combat. Ultimately its up to Steve to decide which way he wants to go
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my words
Note that GSFs currently have access to LAC, LB, and LAA-like components as fighter pod loadouts, so there's not really a reason to preclude aircraft from using bombardment components.
Yep, I had a lot of the Changelog mechanics posts open for reference while typing everything out. The problem with the bombardment pod is that it is treated as always long range/heavy bombardment, ignoring the mechanics of the short range bombardment weapons, which if we give aircraft access to those will it require extra tuning and coding? ALso GSF also don't have a direct AV equivalent so do you not allow aircraft to equip them and will the range properties of them need to get changed up? Its why I'm partial to creating a new AG component thats a blend of both, but I don't know the code well enough to say which would be easier to adapt and why I listed both options.
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my words
Note that FFD only works in a frontline formation, AFAIK, so recon aircraft are limited to organic assets in frontline formations unless we change that mechanic - which we could, but I'd prefer to keep things simple and keep the impact on existing ground unit mechanics minimal.
I shoulda/coulda/woulda clarified, though this was assumed. It is Forward Fire Direction after all, not Backward Fire Direction.
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This functionality already exists in the game if you use LVH logistics. However, this conflicts with INF logistics managed through the replacements/unit series mechanic, which is population-based and does not depend on the order of battle. I don't think it is worth reworking this mechanic and making it much less convenient in the general case to support this specific case - destruction of headquarters already has enough benefits to be worthwhile, I think.

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Good catch, the replacements strategy was only half way in my mind thinking. Again, in my post in the bonus suggestions, I do have a slight disagreement with how resupply works with units being "consumed". It may be a future effort post topic for a revamp of the system to actually track its supply usage which is already done in some form with combat units tracking their 10 combat cycles before needing resupply.
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As far as my more general thoughts:
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my words

I think this is too complicated. We currently have a grand total of seven ground unit types, adding several more just for aircraft seems rather awkward. I would also suggest that it is unnecessary, and an easier approach would be to simply model air units as a capability which can be applied to any vehicle type, conferring (say) 2x size, 2x GSP, 0.5x HP, and 0.5x armor multipliers in exchange for using the air combat mechanics instead of normal ground combat mechanics. I would prefer this approach as it keeps the ground units UI simple while allowing for a lot of roleplay freedom - for example, having an armor multiplier means I could use a VEH base type and choose between light armor for 'normal' warplanes and medium armor for my A-10 Warthog equivalents. On the other hand, designing a UHV with flight capability to model a massive hovering skybase sort of aircraft is very fitting for some settings.

Using the existing unit types as the basis also means the question of weaponry is cleared up as well, and personally I see no reason to add weapon restrictions and restrict roleplay - heavier weapons are generally more specialized anyways, so I doubt we're opening up some silly exploit involving UHV aircraft with 4x SHAV or something.
I'm not opposed to the idea of flight being a capability, I think what you suggest would be far more convoluted to implement as currently all capabilities only affect the To-Hit and Hit Chances when fighting in different terrain/environment (and boarding allowing a new "environment" which is kinda iffy as it only works for offense since all ground units work defensively on board). Adding new mechanics for size/GSP/HP multipliers I would think would be significantly more code intensive rather than adding new Base Unit Types. There's plenty of space in the Ground Unit Design window for 4 more.

-edit, forgot about HP modifier of infantry genetic enhancement. But Size/GSP/Armor constraints still might be an issue
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my words

Partially agreed on fortification, disagreed on terrain. I think aircraft should be able to benefit from terrain, it may not be the most "realistic" but I think a lot of headcanons imagine, say, aircraft sweeping around mountain peaks or skimming forests to fly beneath enemy radar before popping up to fire a torpedo down the exhaust port... or something more realistic.  :P  Again, no need to restrict it here.

As far as fortification goes, I would say it can still apply when aircraft are the target of normal ground unit fire - representing them being caught at base in a hangar, surely an airbase can be fortified to some degree? Of course, fortification should not apply when facing AA fire during the AA fire phase.
Valid points, I could concede on my suggestion for the permanent hidden aircraft capability reducing the terrain factor rather than negating it outright. And while I understand the want to have aircraft protected in hangars able to be fortified, again in headcannons, you may also have to worry about your actual runways being damaged and not all your aircraft being stowed away at the same time. I think its a good trade off with aircraft essentially being glass cannons for all intents and purposes
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my words

As mentioned, I would simply take the ground support fighter rules (including the following ground-based AA fire rules) and paste them onto the new Flight capability. Since those rules are already written out in sufficient detail for discussion purposes, I won't rehash them here.

One simplification here is that, since we can't set orders for ground units in the UI, I would probably use existing mechanics for bombardment and AA targeting to make this work. In short, aircraft formations can be assigned to support frontline formations or left unassigned. In most cases, regardless of assignment they have the same targeting options as HB units (aside from eliminating the target size reduction for support/rear formations, as you stated). The exception would be AA components which fire as AA weapons following the targeting rules for HAA.

This does mean the bombardment components are a tad lackluster since they won't have any special ability making up for their inflated sizes, but I think that's fine as not every component needs to be equally useful in every situation.

Like I said above, I had those open for referencing. I do feel like you are kinda repeating what I was proposing though. I probably should have added some more examples in my post. Currently as stands for GSF, they can be assigned to Provide Ground Support to units with fire support as bombardment does, Search and Destroy which just gives them open range on all ground units (though I'm not clear in the wording of the rule saying they can target any formation regardless of position if it factors in positional weighting), or Flak Suppression to directly target ground AA. All of these can be replicated just with the current positional, support, and FFD functions already in place for ground forces. Search and Destroy is the easiest, its just aircraft set to Frontline Attack. Ground support is also simple with setting an air formation to support. Flak suppression is a little tricky, while there are no current mechanics for GU to target specific elements, it can be pretty simply be represented by air units supporting another air unit. If the front-line aircraft are targeted (preferably those equipped with FFD) by surface to Air ordnance, then the supporting unit can engage the attacking units in the same manner as Counter Battery fire mechanics. We also have another function that GSF's lack to simulate Escort Fighters, aircraft with AA weapons supporting air units with AV/B/AG weapons and "counter battering" enemy aircraft targeted your bombers.

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I would actually prefer to keep the same rules, as this makes it easier to control the flow of supplies. I suppose an alternative would be to have airborne supply distributed last in the resupply order, which would ensure it ends up where it is needed while maintaining the special flavor, but I'm not sure if that mechanic would see a lot of use in practice. Resupply is already a big enough cost that I don't see airborne supply being very cost-effective - and Aurora doesn't really model the kinds of tactical situations where airborne supply is most useful (e.g., formations aren't getting surrounded and cut off tactically, Aurora simply does not model this).

I did state that Air logistics should be resolved last vs internal and parent supply draw. Though like you had mentioned above, the replacement unit tactic does kinda negate the benefit of aircraft logistics being able to resupply any formation regardless of hierarchy. Once again, the consumption of whole units as supplies is a bit of a bore.
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#1 What the hell should the 3/4 letter acronym be!?!?

I'd settle for an '(A)' following the unit base class abbreviation, e.g., "LVH(A)" or "VEH(A)". Should be easy enough to pick out of a lineup.
That would be acceptable if flight was a capability trait, though not a fan of it for base unit types.
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The other big thing being in order to make aircraft somewhat viable and interesting in my eyes is that we have to give them very specific rule exceptions which kinda breaks Steve's design philosphy for Aurora C#,

This is another major reason why I prefer to work within the existing mechanics as much as possible by treating flight as another capability and repurposing the existing GSF rules. We could keep GSFs as they are but I personally see no reason to, space-to-ground fighters can use regular weapons and rules like everybody else IMHO.

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Again, great post, and I hope this doesn't come across as being overly critical, my goal is really more to look at how we can best mesh new air units with the existing mechanics without upsetting the bucket too much and still get a satisfying flight mechanic that promotes strategic decisions and roleplay openness in equal measure.
I do feel like we are both are trying to reach the same goal just from different starting points. We both want to make a dagger, one of us is elongating a knife while the other is shortening a sword. And agreed, GSF's are just a bit too clunky for my taste (which is almost universally agreed on), and while the concept of trans-atmospheric fighters is appealing, I don't think there is a really good way to bridge the very different gameplay mechanics of Naval Combat and Ground Combat. Its best to just let fighters operate under the already existing orbital bombardment mechanics.

The only exception that I think would be pretty fantastic but would actually be a newish, utilize the GSF's ability to not be targeted by STO's with a new order similar to Flak Suppression that specifically targets STO units. That would be fantastic for setting up invasions trying to run fighters in from a carrier to destroy some of the batteries preventing the full scale invasion without the excessive collateral damage and atmospheric dust build up of general orbital bombardment
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Does anyone with a better sense for these things have any idea how to make this constellation of jumps not be a total rat's nest?
Move the systems into an arrangement with the least number of offensive links. And then SM-delete those offending links.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Last post by nuclearslurpee on Yesterday at 11:59:26 PM »
words

This is quite an effortful post and deserves far more credit than I can give it. As it happens, I shall have to suffice with a simple reply.

I'll not wade too deeply into the mechanics here, and keep my comments to a relatively high level. In short: I like the ideas, but I think it is rather too complex for the fidelity and mechanics of Aurora's ground combat as it currently stands, and I'd prefer to keep that simplicity where possible. Furthermore, I think we can accomplish a lot of this by simply repurposing the existing ground support fighter (GSF) mechanics in terms of targeting, combat, etc. so that we are adding a minimum of new mechanics and rules to the system.

A couple of mechanics notes:
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I believe aircraft should be able to equip CAP, Auto Cannon, and Anti-Air weapons as they are now (might need tweaking to AA weapon parameters), AA components obviously being for use against hostile air units, while CAP and AC would be a sort of dual purpose weapon targeting both air and ground units. For attacking ground targets I am split between giving aircraft access to Anti-Vehicle and Bombardment weapons, or giving them a new Air-to-Ground component that blends the 2 together, again I'll detail out the +/- further in the Air Combat Phase.
Note that GSFs currently have access to LAC, LB, and LAA-like components as fighter pod loadouts, so there's not really a reason to preclude aircraft from using bombardment components.

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Moving on though, non-combat equipment, FFD is a must. It is only the the first and foremost job of aircraft to be a scout/reconnaissance force and to direct friendly fires, from the first scout aircraft of the 1910s, to modern unmanned drones.
Note that FFD only works in a frontline formation, AFAIK, so recon aircraft are limited to organic assets in frontline formations unless we change that mechanic - which we could, but I'd prefer to keep things simple and keep the impact on existing ground unit mechanics minimal.

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we could also implement a new feature where if an intermediate formation is destroyed, it would cut off the supply chain from higher units to lower ones,
This functionality already exists in the game if you use LVH logistics. However, this conflicts with INF logistics managed through the replacements/unit series mechanic, which is population-based and does not depend on the order of battle. I don't think it is worth reworking this mechanic and making it much less convenient in the general case to support this specific case - destruction of headquarters already has enough benefits to be worthwhile, I think.

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As far as my more general thoughts:
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Air Unit Base Types
Base Unit   
Ultra-Light Air Vehicle
Light Air Vehicle
Medium Air Vehicle
Heavy Air Vehicle

I think this is too complicated. We currently have a grand total of seven ground unit types, adding several more just for aircraft seems rather awkward. I would also suggest that it is unnecessary, and an easier approach would be to simply model air units as a capability which can be applied to any vehicle type, conferring (say) 2x size, 2x GSP, 0.5x HP, and 0.5x armor multipliers in exchange for using the air combat mechanics instead of normal ground combat mechanics. I would prefer this approach as it keeps the ground units UI simple while allowing for a lot of roleplay freedom - for example, having an armor multiplier means I could use a VEH base type and choose between light armor for 'normal' warplanes and medium armor for my A-10 Warthog equivalents. On the other hand, designing a UHV with flight capability to model a massive hovering skybase sort of aircraft is very fitting for some settings.

Using the existing unit types as the basis also means the question of weaponry is cleared up as well, and personally I see no reason to add weapon restrictions and restrict roleplay - heavier weapons are generally more specialized anyways, so I doubt we're opening up some silly exploit involving UHV aircraft with 4x SHAV or something.

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Lastly, the first true special rules for aircraft is how they truly do not benefit from the terrain and can not physically dig in fortify their position, because well, there is no dirt in the sky.

Partially agreed on fortification, disagreed on terrain. I think aircraft should be able to benefit from terrain, it may not be the most "realistic" but I think a lot of headcanons imagine, say, aircraft sweeping around mountain peaks or skimming forests to fly beneath enemy radar before popping up to fire a torpedo down the exhaust port... or something more realistic.  :P  Again, no need to restrict it here.

As far as fortification goes, I would say it can still apply when aircraft are the target of normal ground unit fire - representing them being caught at base in a hangar, surely an airbase can be fortified to some degree? Of course, fortification should not apply when facing AA fire during the AA fire phase.

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Now for the nitty gritty of how Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground, and Ground-to-Air combat works. I think it best to implement semi-separate Air Combat phases that precede the Direct combat, Support Fire, Ground AA, and Resupply phases already in place.

As mentioned, I would simply take the ground support fighter rules (including the following ground-based AA fire rules) and paste them onto the new Flight capability. Since those rules are already written out in sufficient detail for discussion purposes, I won't rehash them here.

One simplification here is that, since we can't set orders for ground units in the UI, I would probably use existing mechanics for bombardment and AA targeting to make this work. In short, aircraft formations can be assigned to support frontline formations or left unassigned. In most cases, regardless of assignment they have the same targeting options as HB units (aside from eliminating the target size reduction for support/rear formations, as you stated). The exception would be AA components which fire as AA weapons following the targeting rules for HAA.

This does mean the bombardment components are a tad lackluster since they won't have any special ability making up for their inflated sizes, but I think that's fine as not every component needs to be equally useful in every situation.

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Second, they can resupply any unit globally, rather than just internal of a specific unit and its parent formations.

I would actually prefer to keep the same rules, as this makes it easier to control the flow of supplies. I suppose an alternative would be to have airborne supply distributed last in the resupply order, which would ensure it ends up where it is needed while maintaining the special flavor, but I'm not sure if that mechanic would see a lot of use in practice. Resupply is already a big enough cost that I don't see airborne supply being very cost-effective - and Aurora doesn't really model the kinds of tactical situations where airborne supply is most useful (e.g., formations aren't getting surrounded and cut off tactically, Aurora simply does not model this).

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#1 What the hell should the 3/4 letter acronym be!?!?

I'd settle for an '(A)' following the unit base class abbreviation, e.g., "LVH(A)" or "VEH(A)". Should be easy enough to pick out of a lineup.

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The other big thing being in order to make aircraft somewhat viable and interesting in my eyes is that we have to give them very specific rule exceptions which kinda breaks Steve's design philosphy for Aurora C#,

This is another major reason why I prefer to work within the existing mechanics as much as possible by treating flight as another capability and repurposing the existing GSF rules. We could keep GSFs as they are but I personally see no reason to, space-to-ground fighters can use regular weapons and rules like everybody else IMHO.

----

Again, great post, and I hope this doesn't come across as being overly critical, my goal is really more to look at how we can best mesh new air units with the existing mechanics without upsetting the bucket too much and still get a satisfying flight mechanic that promotes strategic decisions and roleplay openness in equal measure.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Last post by KriegsMeister on Yesterday at 09:50:27 PM »
Yes, I will redo the 'air' component of ground combat at some point, probably by introducing a new ground unit type to represent helicopters / attack aircraft / fighter etc.
A bit late to the party but since you've recently started back up posting AAR's after starting your nomadic life I figured now may be a good time to start throwing ideas at you. While there have been many many suggestions for an aircraft unit type, not many actually go in depth on how to actually implement them besides broad strokes "GSF but less micro and mo' better", which is an alright start but we could definitely go deeper. The main topics to discuss is what separates an Air vehicle from a ground vehicle in terms of design and how they interact with ground units, Anti-Air, and each other in regards to the ground combat phase.



First we need to discuss the actual physical characteristics. In game the size of unit base types and components is supposed to roughly correspond to not just the physical weight of an individual unit but the overall logistical support equipment needed to operate and transport it. With that in mind, aircraft should be very very large in comparison to ground units with the same weapon capabilities. Just simply speaking from personal experience as a RQ-7 shadow pilot, in order for my platoon to operate our 4x drones (which together weigh less than a ton) we need close to 20 tons of equipment, fuel, and spare parts, not including our dozen vehicles and the ~30 personnel with all of their individual needs. The helicopter squadrons I work with are even larger and have an incredibly large logistical train. The upkeep is even more strenuous; fuel, ammunition, and spare parts chewed through at incredible rates and should be represented by significant GSP costs.

Secondly in regards to physical attributes, aircraft are incredibly difficult to hit when flying around, just from the combination of speed, distance , and altitude that they operate at. Even slow moving and low flying aircraft like helicopters are notoriously difficult to shoot down with unguided weaponry. This should be represented by a very low To Hit modifier. Conversely, they are very fragile. If you can hit an aircraft it doesn't take much to bring it down. It is also extremely difficult to armor anything on aircraft based on simple power-to-weight ratios, bigger aircraft do sometimes have the spare weight to armor only the most vital of areas like the engines and cockpit, but this is pretty minimal to the ability to armor up ground vehicles.

Thirdly, what components shall aircraft utilize. For now I'm only going to talk about what they should have, but further down I intend to detail how these will be used in the actual combat phase as I believe aircraft need some special rules, similar to bombardment. I believe aircraft should be able to equip CAP, Auto Cannon, and Anti-Air weapons as they are now (might need tweaking to AA weapon parameters), AA components obviously being for use against hostile air units, while CAP and AC would be a sort of dual purpose weapon targeting both air and ground units. For attacking ground targets I am split between giving aircraft access to Anti-Vehicle and Bombardment weapons, or giving them a new Air-to-Ground component that blends the 2 together, again I'll detail out the +/- further in the Air Combat Phase. Moving on though, non-combat equipment, FFD is a must. It is only the the first and foremost job of aircraft to be a scout/reconnaissance force and to direct friendly fires, from the first scout aircraft of the 1910s, to modern unmanned drones. Logistics equipment should also be available with new rules detailed down below.

Lastly, the first true special rules for aircraft is how they truly do not benefit from the terrain and can not physically dig in fortify their position, because well, there is no dirt in the sky. Sure they land on runways and can be stored in protected hangars, but in its hangar it is all but useless for actual combat. Their domain is above the surface with all of its helpful concealment and cover, thus they should have no ability to fortify whatsoever, to include terrain fortification bonuses. Aircraft don't care if they are flying over a desert, ocean, jungle, or mountain, and are practically speaking equally vulnerable to ground fire from all terrains. However, they absolutely should still be affected by environmental factors. High Gravity worlds need stronger engines, propellers and jet engines don't work if their is no atmosphere, cant fly if your fuel would boil in the extremely high temperatures. I believe the easiest way to implement would be to give all aircraft a permanent but hidden capability trait (boarding, jungle, etc) that gives the inverse bonus/malus of all terrain types from desert all the way to jungle mountains.

Lets take these notes and layout our base unit types with some sample parameters.  - Disclaimer, all values should be subject to change for balance and playtesting, I tutored calculus a decade ago but I am by no means a mathematician

Air Unit Base Types
Base UnitSizeHPSlotsTo Hit ModMax FortArmorAvailable Components
Ultra-Light Air Vehicle721.0-1.510.051.0Unarmored (1.5x)CAP, HCAP, LAC, MBL, LAV, LAA, LAG, FFD, LOG
Light Air Vehicle1201.5-2.520.11.0Unarmored (1.5x)CAP, HCAP, LAC, MAC, MBL, LAV, MAV, LAA, MAA, LAG, MAG, FFD, LOG?
Medium Air Vehicle2402-430.151.0Unarmored (1.5x), Armored (2.0-2.5x)CAP, HCAP, LAC, MAC, HAC, MBL, HB, LAV, MAV, HAV, LAA, MAA, HAA, LAG, MAG, HAG, FFD, LOG?
Heavy Air Vehicle3603-540.21.0Unarmored (1.5x), Armored (2.0-2.5x)CAP, HCAP, LAC, MAC, HAC, MBL, HB, SHB, LAV, MAV, HAV, SHAV, LAA, MAA, HAA, LAG, MAG, HAG, SHAG, FFD, LOG?

Possible Air-to-Ground component attributes
Component NameAbbreviationSizePenetrationDamageShots
Light Air-to-GroundLAG202-32-33-4
Medium Air-to-GroundMAG404-64-62
Heavy Air-to-GroundHAG80881-2
Super-Heavy Air-to-GroundSHAG12010101



So, what does that leave us with. Aircraft would be oversized equivalents to ground units that while they are more difficult to hit, (though with no ability to fortify) they are otherwise very squishy and easy to kill. Honestly, they don't sound too appealing as is with a lot of downsides with only 1 minor upside. We need something more to actually make them interesting and competitive. I think the 2 key features of aircraft should be based on their freedom of movement. First, they ignore the target weighting of elements and formations in Support and Rear Echelon positions and non-combat status. This creates a dynamic of cutting down enemy logistics and HQ, crippling the frontline units ability to fight. While this is already somewhat possible with current breakthrough mechanics, this should be the core feature of aircraft. Second, they can resupply any unit globally, rather than just internal of a specific unit and its parent formations. Not only would this be a huge boon allowing resupply laterally and independently of the normal supply chain, we could also implement a new feature where if an intermediate formation is destroyed, it would cut off the supply chain from higher units to lower ones, which would be more likely with aircraft attacking the backlines. Air logistics would therefore be the only way to resupply the frontlines until reorganization happens. Also opens up an important function of one of my bonus suggestion.

Now for the nitty gritty of how Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground, and Ground-to-Air combat works. I think it best to implement semi-separate Air Combat phases that precede the Direct combat, Support Fire, Ground AA, and Resupply phases already in place. I don't think we need any additional field positions, the current ones 4 will suffice to more than adequately replicate all IRL combat.

How I propose the Air Combat phase to resolve is as follows:

Direct Air combat
1.) Aircraft in Frontline Attack with AA weapons select an Air element to engage, LAA can target Frontline Attack and Frontline Defense, MAA can target Support, and HAA can target Rear Echelon.
2.) Aircraft in Frontline Attack with AV, B, or AG weapons select a ground element to engage. No position range limitations like AA.
3.) Aircraft in Frontline Defense with AA, CAP or AC weapons select an air element or with AV, B, AG, CAP, or AC select a ground element to engage. Like ground vehicles, frontline defense can still only target other frontline units.
4.) In the regular direct combat phase, Ground based AA in frontline positions can target aircraft with the same range restrictions listed above
5.) All other ground elements can potentially target aircraft with any weapon to simulate attacking grounded aircraft at an airfield.

Air Support
1.) Aircraft in Support of another formation with FFD engage the same target if able with the appropriate weapons. i.e. supporting a ground element in the form of CAS, or if supporting an "Air Scout" with FFD engages the air or ground targets in the form of Fighter Direction or SEAD like missions.
2.) Aircraft in Support of another formation without FFD engage elements targeting the supported formation, range does not matter so can be used as counterbattery fire as well. CAS again or if supporting an air element this could be your fighter escort.
3.) Regular ground and orbital Bombardment support follows

Anti-Air (pretty much just duplicating current AA rules, but adding CAP and AC)
1.) Units with AA, CAP, or AC can engage air-targets which targeted them.
2.) Units with MAA or HAA not directly attacked can engage if they are the parent formation
3.) Units with HAA can engage any air target regardless of parent/daughter formation

Air Resupply (the only Air phase which resolves after the ground part)
1.) Like normal, unit checks parent formation(s) for LVH-LOG or pulls from integral INF-LOGS
2.) If a unit has no more internal LOG or can not pull from higher echelons, it picks a random air unit to draw on.
[Note, I did opt to have all aircraft sizes able to equip LOG components, though easiest implementation of course would just to let ULAV but I have another bonus suggestion below]



In summary
In real life, the defining characteristic of aircraft is their freedom of maneuverability. Their ability to fly over complex terrain that would otherwise halt ground movement, their ability to fly beyond the frontlines to spot and engage the enemy, and using their flight to keep safe distances from the ground making them difficult to hit. However, once they are hit, gravity's everlasting pull will take advantage of even the slightest bit of damage, and all of it comes at a very high logistical cost. We represent these factors in-game by giving them the ignorance of fortification and terrain bonuses, allowing them to engage support and rear echelon units without weighted hinderance, but all at a significant size cost and very low defensive capabilities making them easier to destroy.

I know this suggestion isn't above criticism, I do have concerns myself. #1 What the hell should the 3/4 letter acronym be!?!? I used ULAV above but LAV/MAV/HAV could be confused with Anti-Vehicle, as well another common shorthand for Aircraft being AC which would be confused with Auto-Cannon. Do we just accept another scenario like MSP and MSP (Missile Size Points and Maintenance Supply Points) or try to shoehorn another less-intuitive letter combination? I'm partial to just do AIR or AR for UAIR/LAIR/MAIR/HAIR or ULAR/LAR/MAR/HAR, but my brain just doesn't want to accept it. Could also go along the lines of what I actually fly, the US Army calls its drones UAS, Unmanned Aircraft System, so we could have ULAS/LAS/MAS/HAS.

But more seriously, I can't decide whether Aircraft should utilize Anti-Vehicle and Bombardment weapons separately to engage ground targets or to combine the 2 into a new Air-to-Ground weapon which kinda blends them together. I see merit to both, AG (I think) simplifies coding to not have to worry about the special rules of B in combat when AV lack them. On the other hand separating makes it easier of not needing to make a new weapon type to have to try and balance as well as giving more design and roleplay choices to have AV represent large bore cannons or guided anti-tank weaponry versus general purpose bombs.

With current GSP cost being based solely on components rather than base unit types, we can't really replicate the heightened logistical cost of aircraft besides making them very big tonnage wise. We kinda get it with AA weapons being able to fire a second time in the Anti-air combat phase, but its really just shooting again rather than costing twice as much. Ideally, base unit type should be a partial factor in GSP cost, maybe along the lines of INF-1x, LVH-1.5x, VEH-2x, HVH-2.5x, SHV-4x, UHV-6x, ULAR-2x, LAR-4x, MAR-6x, HAR-8x. I dunno, just spitballing as a precursor bonus suggestion.

The other big thing being in order to make aircraft somewhat viable and interesting in my eyes is that we have to give them very specific rule exceptions which kinda breaks Steve's design philosphy for Aurora C#, as well may be a P.I.T.A. to code. I do think that what I've suggested is minor enough bend in the rules to keep things interesting and in the same vein as bombardment and counter-battery fire, and GSF mechanics.



But that's pretty much all I got for the main suggestion of ground unit aircraft and how they'd fit. So on to the Bonus Suggestions that semi-correlate to the above new mechanics.

1.) Special Forces Infantry - Being able to directly target Support and Rear Echelon troops without the weighting is a big deal for aircraft, but I don't think it should be completely exclusive to them. I think giving Infantry (and maybe Light vehicles) a capability trait called "Unconventional Warfare" or "Special Operations" or something else along those lines would be pretty neat. Thematically I imagine sneaking in a company or battalion onto a heavily guarded planet with drop pods to try and take out STO units (which tend to be very large and set to Rear Echelon and non-combat) before bringing in your main invasion force. The problem though is even if you made the capability absurdly expensive, whats to stop you from just adding it to all infantry which would be absolutely broken. Realistically, Infantry fighting behind enemy lines are pretty much cut off from the friendly supply chain unless they get an air drop, so I think the best way to dial them back is to give them an exception to the normal resupply mechanics. Infantry with the UW/SO tag would be unable to resupply from LVH-LOG of its parent formations, I'm iffy about INF-LOGS but as they could be given the tag I think it would be fine, but when the formation burns through its INF-LOGS it should only be able to resupply from air logistics. However, this also leaves open the question of how to defend against Special Forces Infantry which leads me into suggestion #...

2.) In addition to the Anti-Air phase, there should be a "Self-Defense" phase that enables ground units with offensive elements in Support or Rear Echelon to retaliate against breakthrough attacks and (if added) Special Forces attacks. This is something that has been brought up before, in that currently in-game it is completely and utterly wasteful to put weapons other than Bombardment or AA in the back line as they will never ever actually shoot. It's not that big a deal mechanically now since the backlines will only ever get attacked when the front is mostly broken and victory is all but inevitable. But if we make the rear vulnerable from aircraft and (possibly) Infantry, we should give them a chance to pucker up and defend themselves. The simple rule would just be ff a unit is attacked while in Support or Rear Echelon, any offensive elements within the unit may target the attackers. I don't think we need to get to crazy with parent formations and supporting units engaging as well, besides the current Anti-Air rules. This opens up massive design considerations of how much weaponry to you allocate to defend your units, or do you forgo it all together to concentrate firepower on the frontlines and much more.

3.) In regards to letting larger vehicles with multiple slots also carry Logistics components. Overall, I'm not a huge fan of LOG units simply disappearing when used up, but changing that up would require its own separate suggestion to rewrite the baseline mechanics. But working with current mechanics I think multiple LOG components as well as mixing LOG and offensive components could be viable and interesting. Similar to bonus suggestion #2, having your rear line units able to defend themselves would be necessary with my mechanics changes, and simply putting a HCAP on a VEH an addition to a LOG component would make that supply factor be more survivable when attacked. However, if we were going to have a Heavy Cargo Aircraft (HAS-4x LOG) it would be incredibly tonnage inefficient for a negligible increase in survivability in comparson to 4x LVH-LOG (560t vs 248t), and if it gets consumed, thats a not insignificant vendarite and wealth cost that disappears with it. In order to make larger vehicle logistics more viable, it give them a scaling effect that decreases their chance to be consumed. Using the example in the original ground combat supply post. We have a combat element which requires 1200 GSP and we have 4 groups of logistics vehicles 3x LVH with 500 GSP Each, 2x VEH with 1000GSP Each, 1x SHV with 1500 GSP and a UHV with 2000 GSP. As per the original mechanics, the first group would consume 2x LVH and a 40% chance of consuming the third. For the 2nd group lets give 2x LOG modules a 10% reduced chance to being consumed, so the First vehicle would have a 10% chance to survive even if all its GSP is "used" (1000/1000x1.1) and the second would have a 22% chance to survive (200/1000x1.1). 3x Log modules could give a 25% bonus so the 1x SHV would have a 100% chance to survive (1200/1500x1.25) and the UHV a 50% bonus for a 90%? chance to survive (1200/2000x1.5) [numbers need tweaking, like I said before, I'm no mathematician]. I think it's a pretty decent trade off if we are considering our supply lines to be more actively be engaged, sacrificing raw total logistical tonnage for better protection and an increased chance to get some "free" supplies as well.

4.) Last Bonus Suggestion, Low Orbit AIrcraft Insertion - This would be the most complex thing to add, but giving air units a capability trait like boarding combat but rather able to launch from troop transports to the surface without drop transport bays. This could be expanded with air units with LOG components increasing the (un)loading rate assisting the ships cargo shuttles. Though this is probably too much coding effort for something thats practically already down with just Drop bays but limiting it to only specific units.



To wrap everything up, we should also consider what we are doing with Ground Support Fighters with their Fighter Pods. In my opinion, I think we could forgo and elliminate the GSF concept all together if we were to add ground air units. Just have fighters follow the same orbital bombardment support mechanics already in place, which are already simplified to apply to fleets as a whole rather than individual GSF's. Orbital Bombardment also becomes more effective when using Airborne FFD units (and possibly Special Forces FFD) to be able to better target Anti-Air or STO units which would have higher chances of being selected for engagement.
8
General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by AlStar on Yesterday at 06:50:35 PM »
I've been playing with my galaxy layout, since I just found a connection that joined the far western side of my map with the far eastern side.

Does anyone with a better sense for these things have any idea how to make this constellation of jumps not be a total rat's nest?
9
General Discussion / Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Last post by AlStar on Yesterday at 12:10:17 PM »
We just participated in the largest battle in our empire's history to date - roughly 300,000 tons of Precursor ships, plus STOs on the planet below against a roughly equal tonnage of my own ships.

Something I don't think I ever appreciated before was just how devastatingly quick beam combats can be. The design philosophy I've been following in this game is massed laser weapons - 10cm turrets for primarily anti-missile operations, then 12cm or 15cm for higher damage and more range. Everything with the capacitor technology needed to fire every 5 seconds.

Once our fleet got within beam range of the planet - close enough that everything I had could fire, but far enough away that the (50!) STOs were only hitting for 1 point of damage; missing often - the entire combat took less than three minutes. I know this, because about halfway through the fight, some of the damaged Precursors came after us - either because they had run out of missiles and were going to ram, or because they wanted to get within range of their mass drivers; I'm not sure. In any case, I knocked the engines out on one of them, and deployed assault troops mid-fight. That combat - which ticks every minute - only got a single round off before the shooting stopped.

Roughly 400,000 tons of combat ships (100% of their force, ~30% of mine) vaporized in minutes.
10
An easy one for you veterans!

Is Fuel Production not in fact Fuel Productivity? This would change my priorities ...

Not sure what you mean.

The Fuel Production technology determines the base number of liters per year your race produces with a single Fuel Refinery installation or Sorium Harvester ship module.
Actual production of a given Fuel Refinery is modified by the Production bonus of Planet and Sector governors, as well as the Manufacturing Efficiency Modifier of the population.
Actual production of a given Sorium Harvester ship module is modified by the Mining bonus of the Ship commander and of the appertaining Naval Admin commanders.

Regardless of tech or bonuses, production requires one ton of sorium for every 2000 liters produced.

Uh oh... there goes my mind again.

So fuel creation on a PLANET is modified by personnel production bonuses and NOT personnel mining bonuses, but fuel on a SHIP is modified by personnel mining bonuses, but not personnel production bonuses?

I've been sabotaging my own fuel for so many playthroughs... :(

Yes, on a planet, the refineries are producing fuel from already mined Sorium, so its a production bonus. Orbital harvesters are mining the Sorium to turn into fuel, so its mining bonuses (strictly speaking they are also refining it, but the mining is the primary task).
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