Reduced size launchers as standard armament?

[Icecoon (OP)]

Hi.
I wanted to ask, what do you think about using reduced size launchers as a standard armament on missile armed ships. I have two designs, and I'm curious how would they fare against ships with full size launchers. Obviously you can stuff more smaller launchers on a ship, thus increasing the number of missiles in a single salvo.

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Nelson class Missile Destroyer    7 850 tons     172 Crew     1274.68 BP      TCS 157  TH 160  EM 0
2038 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 24.84
Maint Life 2.35 Years     MSP 406    AFR 123%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 100    5YR 1501    Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 281   

Wade PN-160 Naval Pulse Engine (2)    Power 160    Fuel Use 56%    Signature 80    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres    Range 30.7 billion km   (174 days at full power)

Armstrong Industries SM-19 Torpedo Tube (8)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 1800
Armstrong Industries SM-1D Missile Launcher (9)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
Astrotech MCS-56 (3)     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1
Astrotech MCS-80 (1)     Range 64.4m km    Resolution 20
SRD-11 Dagger (101)  Speed: 13 200 km/s   End: 9.2m    Range: 7.3m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 70/42/21
MRS-62 Martell (30)  Speed: 13 000 km/s   End: 84m    Range: 65.6m km   WH: 6    Size: 6    TH: 69/41/20

Alliance Systems C-96/66 Search Sensor (1)     GPS 11520     Range 63.1m km    Resolution 120
Alliance Systems C-96/16 Low Resolution Sensor (1)     GPS 160     Range 9.6m km    MCR 1.0m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Novara class Cruiser    13,800 tons     247 Crew     1656.96 BP      TCS 276  TH 280  EM 0
2028 km/s     Armour 5-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 62.2
Maint Life 2.42 Years     MSP 600    AFR 190%    IFR 2.6%    1YR 141    5YR 2109    Max Repair 210 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 588   

Wade PN-280 Naval Pulse Engine (2)    Power 280    Fuel Use 45.5%    Signature 140    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,100,000 Litres    Range 31.5 billion km   (179 days at full power)

Armstrong Industries SO-65 155mm Laser Cannon (4)    Range 120,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 6-2     RM 2    ROF 15        6 6 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Armstrong Industries MPD-120 CIWS (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
KVK CW-160 Main Cannon Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-2 (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Armstrong Industries SM-33 Torpedo Tube (14)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 3000
Astrotech MCS-80 (1)     Range 64.4m km    Resolution 20
MRS-111 Sunwell (58)  Speed: 13,200 km/s   End: 83.1m    Range: 65.8m km   WH: 12    Size: 10    TH: 61/37/18

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[Erik L]

How many standard size launchers can you fit on the Nelson? If you are only getting 1-2 more reduced launchers, then I'd opt for the full sized and the increased RoF.

It all comes down to big alpha strike, or long engagement.

[Icecoon (OP)]

How many standard size launchers can you fit on the Nelson? If you are only getting 1-2 more reduced launchers, then I'd opt for the full sized and the increased RoF.

It all comes down to big alpha strike, or long engagement.

With 3 full size launchers the Nelson is now 8,100 tons and it slowed down to 1975km/h. I did not changed anything except the launchers. Interresting.

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Nelson - Copy class Missile Destroyer    8,100 tons     218 Crew     1307.88 BP      TCS 162  TH 160  EM 0
1975 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 27
Maint Life 2.26 Years     MSP 404    AFR 131%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 107    5YR 1607    Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 251   

Wade PN-160 Naval Pulse Engine (2)    Power 160    Fuel Use 56%    Signature 80    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 29.8 billion km   (174 days at full power)

Armstrong Industries SM-1D Missile Launcher (9)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
Size 6 Missile Launcher (3)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 90
Astrotech MCS-80 (1)     Range 64.4m km    Resolution 20
Astrotech MCS-56 (3)     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1
SRD-11 Dagger (101)  Speed: 13,200 km/s   End: 9.2m    Range: 7.3m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 70/42/21
MRS-62 Martell (30)  Speed: 13,000 km/s   End: 84m    Range: 65.6m km   WH: 6    Size: 6    TH: 69/41/20

Alliance Systems C-96/16 Low Resolution Sensor (1)     GPS 160     Range 9.6m km    MCR 1.0m km    Resolution 1
Alliance Systems C-96/66 Search Sensor (1)     GPS 11520     Range 63.1m km    Resolution 120

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[bean]

I often use reduced-size launchers, albeit with better launcher tech.  I think you need to look at something between the two.  3 missiles isn't enough to be able to make it through most point defenses I've seen, while a reload time of half an hour might be a shade too long.  I'd also see what I could do to make my missiles faster.  There's a thread in Advanced Tactical Command Academy that might help.

[Icecoon (OP)]

I use 3x Novara, 3x Nelson and 4x beam ships in a task group now. That means the initial strike will have 66 missiles. I agree, the reloading tech is only level 2 and I use .33 size reduction launchers, the reloading is pretty long. I think those 66 missiles are enough to severely cripple or destroy a ship or two though. The rest should be destroyed by beam armed ships.

[alex_brunius]

I've had some pretty bad experiences with reduced size launchers with very long reload times trying to jump into a guarded system...   

[Erik L]

The rest should be destroyed by beam armed ships.

Should work right up to the first 5-sec interrupt.

[SteelChicken]

I use reduced rate of fire for larger alpha strikes.  For my AMM's launchers, I do not.

[Iranon]

I'm fond of Box Launchers, and skimping on magazine and reloading techs.... and throwing a few full-size launchers on my "colliers".

I don't care much for the moderate size reductions, except maybe as light support for a primarily-beam fleet.
0.15 or 0.25 launchers (with no and relatively small magazines respectively) give us impressive salvo sizes, full-size launchers give us the ability to empty spacious magazines in a decent time . The in-betweens simply don't perform  when we need overwhelming firepower.

[SteelChicken]

The only time reduced rates have bit me in the butt is wormhole defense/knifefighting.  Much of the time, I am launching single, massive salvoes and waiting for results before firing again.   I tend to combine my offensive missiles and defensive in the same ship, so even in knife fighting, im spamming AMM's.   My offensive missile count might be low compared to a dedicated offensive ship, but I just make up for it with more ships.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

It depends whether or not the standard launchers can overwhelm a targets point defenses. If they can't, you're pretty much always better off with reduced size launchers.

Since reload speed (and therefore ability to overwhelm) scales with missile speed, the smaller a missile is the more viable standard launchers are.

I typically run standard launchers with size 3-4 missiles and reduced size/box for anything over that (like your size 6s )

[MarcAFK]

I prefer .75 reduced launchers because they allow 25% more weight of fire and enough reload speed to empty magazines quickly and GTFO, which is valuable for smaller less armoured ships.

[Icecoon (OP)]

Now I have to find some spoilers/NPRs to test those designs. Also I'm researching reloading speed lvl3 and Ion tech.

[Icecoon (OP)]

Here are the same ships with better reloading, better missiles and on Ion tech level. Plus one bigger ship on the same tech level.

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Nelson - refit I. class Missile Destroyer    7 750 tons     168 Crew     1354.12 BP      TCS 155  TH 360  EM 0
3096 km/s     Armour 4-34     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 24.84
Maint Life 2.36 Years     MSP 437    AFR 120%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 107    5YR 1605    Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 295    

Wade PI-240 Naval Ion Engine (2)    Power 240    Fuel Use 56%    Signature 180    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres    Range 31.1 billion km   (116 days at full power)

Armstrong SM-22 Torpedo Tube (8)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 1200
Armstrong SM-2 Missile Launcher (9)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Astrotech MCS-56B (3)     Range 13.4m km    Resolution 1
Astrotech MCS-64 (1)     Range 68.7m km    Resolution 20
MRS-68 Onyx (32)  Speed: 19 500 km/s   End: 56m    Range: 65.6m km   WH: 8    Size: 6    TH: 110/66/33
SRD-18 ASRIM (103)  Speed: 18 000 km/s   End: 6.3m    Range: 6.8m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 144/86/43

Alliance Systems C-160 Low Resolution Sensor (1)     GPS 160     Range 12.8m km    MCR 1.4m km    Resolution 1
Alliance Systems C76/66 Search Sensor (1)     GPS 9120     Range 66.6m km    Resolution 120

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Novara - refit I. class Cruiser    13 750 tons     257 Crew     1932.56 BP      TCS 275  TH 630  EM 0
3054 km/s     Armour 5-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 68.8
Maint Life 2.34 Years     MSP 703    AFR 189%    IFR 2.6%    1YR 174    5YR 2617    Max Repair 262.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 636    

Wade PI-420 Naval Ion Engine (2)    Power 420    Fuel Use 45.5%    Signature 315    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1 100 000 Litres    Range 31.6 billion km   (119 days at full power)

Armstrong SO-65/2 155mm NUV Laser Cannon (4)    Range 180 000km     TS: 3054 km/s     Power 6-2     RM 3    ROF 15        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Armstrong Industries MPD-120 CIWS (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
KVK CW-160 Main Cannon Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 192 000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Gas-Cooled Reactor R-1 (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Armstrong SM-35 Torpedo Tube (16)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 2000
Astrotech MCS-64 (1)     Range 68.7m km    Resolution 20
MRS-120 Amethyst (63)  Speed: 19 800 km/s   End: 55.4m    Range: 65.8m km   WH: 16    Size: 10    TH: 99/59/29

Alliance Systems C76/66 Search Sensor (1)     GPS 9120     Range 66.6m km    Resolution 120

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Saturn class Battlecruiser    19 500 tons     458 Crew     2771.3 BP      TCS 390  TH 945  EM 0
3230 km/s     Armour 6-64     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 12     PPV 104.3
Maint Life 2.36 Years     MSP 1066    AFR 253%    IFR 3.5%    1YR 261    5YR 3911    Max Repair 262.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 584   

Wade PI-420 Naval Ion Engine (3)    Power 420    Fuel Use 45.5%    Signature 315    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1 600 000 Litres    Range 32.5 billion km   (116 days at full power)

Triple Armstrong Industries SO-31 105mm Laser Cannon Turret (2x3)    Range 60 000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 9-6     RM 2    ROF 10        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Armstrong SO-146 250mm NUV Spinal Laser (1)    Range 256 000km     TS: 3230 km/s     Power 16-2     RM 3    ROF 40        16 16 16 12 9 8 6 5 5 4
Armstrong SO-125 205mm NUV Laser Cannon (6)    Range 256 000km     TS: 3230 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 3    ROF 25        10 10 10 7 5 5 4 3 3 3
KVK CW-266 Main Cannon Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
KVK CW-55 PD Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 72 000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     86 72 58 44 31 17 3 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Reactor R-2 (3)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Armstrong SM-22 Torpedo Tube (18)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 1200
Astrotech MCS-64 (1)     Range 68.7m km    Resolution 20
MRS-68 Onyx (97)  Speed: 19 500 km/s   End: 56m    Range: 65.6m km   WH: 8    Size: 6    TH: 110/66/33

Alliance Systems C76/66 Search Sensor (1)     GPS 9120     Range 66.6m km    Resolution 120
Alliance Systems C-64/55 Defensive Sensor (1)     GPS 64     Range 5.1m km    MCR 558k km    Resolution 1
Spacetech PS-6/EM (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Decent, hefty ships. A little slow for ion age though. Expect to be outrun by everything.