Author Topic: How does Armour work? concerning thickness  (Read 3362 times)

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Offline Journier (OP)

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How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« on: February 25, 2010, 03:25:55 AM »
I just searched for any topic that may cover this and apparently noone has asked it or answered it directly..

Tech Description:
Armour is used for the hull of all ships. The amount of armour required is based on the size of the ship and the thickness of the armour. The thickness of the armour reduces incoming damage by that amount and is never damaged


The thickness of the armour is never damaged and reduces incoming damage by that amount???.....

Is that correct?

how does it reduce damage then as well?

does it reduce the damage to the actual armor? or just internal components after the armor is breached?

Thanks guys


edit- Also, the system for defenses goes , shields-armour-internal armour- components right? and if a component has no internal armour it goes directly to component...
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 06:03:19 AM »
Armour is explained in detail in the tutorial for basic ship design. it is a good idea to go through the tutorials as they will answer a lot of questions.

viewtopic.php?f=101&t=1955

Steve
 

Offline Brian Neumann

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 06:10:40 AM »
What you found was the way that armour worked originally.  It has since been changed to an ablative system.  Each level provides one layer of armour.  An armour value of 5 means that there is 5 rows of armour.  The larger the ship the more colums of armour there will be.  This forms a block of armour that might be 5 wide by 10 deep, or 30 deep.  The depth does depend on the size of ship.  Each weapon does damage, with larger damage going deeper.  The general pattern is 1-3 damage is only hitting the 1st level of armour.  4-8 does damage to the next level, 9-15 a third level.  If any of this gets through the last level of armour then it does internal damage.  The pattern is a wedge, 1:3:5:7, ect. Some weapons do vary this. See the previous answer for the thread to a more complete explanation.

Damage that is greater than a components hits to kill automatically destroys it.  If the system is less than 1 hull space in size then it does not reduce the damage at all.  otherwise the damage is reduced by the hits to kill number.  If their is any remaining damage then the cycle continues.  If a system has internal armour then the armour value is subtracted before figuring if the system is destroyed.  If at least one point of damage gets through but does not equal the hits to kill then their is a chance of destroying it.  The chance is (Damage dealt/hits to kill)  An example if a weapon does 1 point of damage and the system takes 3 points then there is a 33% (1/3)

Hope that helps you understand both how armour works and damage works.

Brian
 

Offline Journier (OP)

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 07:18:15 AM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Armour is explained in detail in the tutorial for basic ship design. it is a good idea to go through the tutorials as they will answer a lot of questions.

viewtopic.php?f=101&t=1955

Steve

except your tech description is old and needs to be updated...  pretty confusing when theres multiple different points of information laying around.
Quote
Tech Description:
Armour is used for the hull of all ships. The amount of armour required is based on the size of the ship and the thickness of the armour. The thickness of the armour reduces incoming damage by that amount and is never damaged

i have read all your tutorials   8)

Quote
Hope that helps you understand both how armour works and damage works.

Brian

yes that did help a bit in some general understanding, thank you.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 07:27:48 AM »
Quote from: "Journier"
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Armour is explained in detail in the tutorial for basic ship design. it is a good idea to go through the tutorials as they will answer a lot of questions.

viewtopic.php?f=101&t=1955

Steve

except your tech description is old and needs to be updated...  pretty confusing when theres multiple different points of information laying around.
The armour detail is up to date, as are 95% of the tutorials in the Tutorial forum. The tutorial covering armour was posted on January 16th 2010. You have an interesting interpretation of 'old'. The only changes are since v4.8 and most of those are not in areas covered by the tutorial anyway. I am not sure what other sources of information you are looking at. The most up to date information is in the FAQ and the Tutorial sub-forums.

Quote
i have read all your tutorials   8)
If you have read them, why were you asking about armour when tutorial 4, posted just over a month ago, goes into great detail on armour?

Steve
 

Offline Journier (OP)

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 07:32:39 AM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Journier"
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Armour is explained in detail in the tutorial for basic ship design. it is a good idea to go through the tutorials as they will answer a lot of questions.

viewtopic.php?f=101&t=1955

Steve

except your tech description is old and needs to be updated...  pretty confusing when theres multiple different points of information laying around.
The armour detail is up to date, as are 95% of the tutorials in the Tutorial forum. The tutorial covering armour was posted on January 16th 2010. You have an interesting interpretation of 'old'. The only changes are since v4.8 and most of those are not in areas covered by the tutorial anyway. I am not sure what other sources of information you are looking at. The most up to date information is in the FAQ and the Tutorial sub-forums.

Quote
i have read all your tutorials   8)
If you have read them, why were you asking about armour when tutorial 4, posted just over a month ago, goes into great detail on armour?

Steve


You armor tech description in game is wrong.... i have quoted the actual text multiple times.

This part is completely wrong.

The thickness of the armour reduces incoming damage by that amount and is never damaged

If this isnt wrong its worded badly.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 07:43:55 AM »
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant the tech description in the tutorial. I have checked and the armour text in-game is out of date so I'll change it for the next DB release. However, as I keep saying, the most up to date information is in the Tutorial and FAQ forums. If you had read the tutorial you would have seen the following information on armour (shown below):

"Armour Rating is the thickness of the armour and can be increased or decreased by clicking the small arrows to the right of this box.

Armour Area is the surface area of the ship based on the assumption it is spherical in shape

The Armour Strength Required is equal to (Surface Area / 4) rounded up. Armour sufficient to meet this requirement is automatically added to the design as it gets larger. If you increase the thickness of the armour then each extra 'layer' is added to the previous one. As the total size of the ship and therefore the total surface area increases with each layer of armour, each additional layer will be cover a greater area and therefore require greater strength than the previous one. Each type of armour in Aurora has a different strength rating per hull space (HS) so as tech increases you will need less hull space dedicated to armour to meet the Armour Strength Required. As less armour also means a smaller ship, extra layers of armour will also be smaller.

For example, at the moment you have the technology for Duranium Armour, which has a strength per HS of 5. The armour area is 14.1. Dividing by 4 gives us a Required Armour Strength of 3.525. As Duranium has a strength per HS of 5, we need 3.525/5 HS of armour, which is 0.705, rounded to 0.7. As you can see on the design, 0.7 HS of Duranium Armour has automatically been allocated. If you had High Density Duranium Armour, which has a strength of 6 per HS, you would only need 3.525/6 = 0.6 HS of armour. Obviously this make little difference at the moment but as ships get larger and armour gets stronger, it can make a significant difference. Try increasing the Armour Rating to 2. The ship is now slightly larger and there are two layers of armour so the surface area has increased to 16 and the armour strength to 8. Duranium Armour is armour strength 5 so we need 8/5 = 1.6 HS of armour. Put the Armour Rating back to 1 for now. You don't really need to remember any of the details. Just remember that increasing the armour thickness or increasing the size of the ship will increase the amount of armour required and researching new armour tech will reduce the amount of armour required for future designs.

Armour Columns is the 'width' of the armour. The armour system in Aurora combat is similar to that of an old FASA game called Interceptor. The armour is represented by a block of 'boxes' with the width based on the size of the ship and the depth based on the thickness of the armour. Each weapon type has a damage template which determines which armour 'boxes' are damaged. Missiles tend to crater the armour while lasers cause narrower but deeper damage. Some weapons, such as railguns, have a high rate of fire and cause more overall damage than lasers but because that damage is split among many small hits, they tend to sandpaper armour rather than penetrating as a laser does. Any damage hitting in a location where all the armour has been destroyed will penetrate and cause internal damage. It is possible even for a well armoured ship to get unlucky and receive several hits in the same location, which will result in armour penetration and internal damage. That internal damage could even set off a string of secondary explosions, so a Hood style catastrophe is possible. Equally, if a ship has hits distributed all over the armour and doesn't lose any key system or suffer secondary explosion, it can withstand quite a lot of punishment"

Steve
 

Offline Journier (OP)

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 07:49:59 AM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant the tech description in the tutorial. I have checked and the armour text in-game is out of date so I'll change it for the next DB release. However, as I keep saying, the most up to date information is in the Tutorial and FAQ forums. If you had read the tutorial you would have seen the following information on armour (shown below):

Steve

I understand Steve, but I read your tutorial a while ago, and I was trying to help someone else who is now playing the game and suddenly looked at the tech description for armour and suddenly... I was completely confused on what was correct or if there was another hidden aspect to armour I hadnt known.

Hence I came here to get clarification :)
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 07:55:22 AM »
Quote from: "Journier"
I understand Steve, but I read your tutorial a while ago, and I was trying to help someone else who is now playing the game and suddenly looked at the tech description for armour and suddenly... I was completely confused on what was correct or if there was another hidden aspect to armour I hadnt known.

Hence I came here to get clarification :)
No problem. I should have read your original post more carefully.

Steve
 

Offline WCG

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 07:57:59 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
"Armour Rating is the thickness of the armour and can be increased or decreased by clicking the small arrows to the right of this box.

...

The armour is represented by a block of 'boxes' with the width based on the size of the ship and the depth based on the thickness of the armour.

I thought I understood this until I actually started designing ships and weapons. But... I guess I don't.

Looking at the Class Design page, I've got a PDC with an "Armour Rating" of 1 and an "Armour" of 5-16. Is the "thickness" of the armor 1 or 5?

From what I've seen elsewhere, a missile warhead of strength 1, 2, or 3 will only destroy the top layer of armor, right? So in that PDC, do I have just one layer of armor or five layers?

You say that armor is represented by a block of boxes, so I thought this meant, in my example above, armor that was 5 "boxes" thick and 16 boxes in "width." But then, the "Armour Rating" is just 1, and that's also supposed to be the thickness. In the tutorial, your examples had the same first number in those "boxes" as "Armour Rating," so it seemed simple enough. Once I got into the game, though, I discovered this wasn't the case. So I really don't understand.

Any help here?

Thanks,

Bill
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 08:21:14 PM »
PDCs are an exception. Their armor is thicker per layer.

Offline WCG

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 09:18:40 PM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
PDCs are an exception. Their armor is thicker per layer.

OK, so which number tells me the number of layers? A level 1 warhead will destroy 1 layer, right?

Note that when I change the "Armour Rating" from 1 to 2, it doesn't double the other numbers, which I'd expect if the layers were just thicker in a PDC.

Instead, if adds 1 to the first number, which would seem to mean that it was only adding a layer to multiple layers that were already there (the second number increases a bit, presumably due to the increased size of the PDC).

Thanks,

Bill
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 10:08:53 PM »
Quote from: "WCG"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
PDCs are an exception. Their armor is thicker per layer.

OK, so which number tells me the number of layers? A level 1 warhead will destroy 1 layer, right?

Note that when I change the "Armour Rating" from 1 to 2, it doesn't double the other numbers, which I'd expect if the layers were just thicker in a PDC.

Instead, if adds 1 to the first number, which would seem to mean that it was only adding a layer to multiple layers that were already there (the second number increases a bit, presumably due to the increased size of the PDC).

Thanks,

Bill

Go to the F6 (ship) screen, select a ship, then click on the "Armor Status" tab.  You'll see an NxM rectangle of little squares.  N is the armor level, it's the 1st number in the N-M on the class display.  M is the surface area of the ship - it will be bigger for bigger ships, and is the 2nd number in the N-M.  So when you go from 1 to 2 (e.g. 1-15 to 2-15), you're doubling the amount of armor because the rectangle is now twice as big (30 squares vs. 15).

When a strength-4 warhead hits the ship, it will do damage to the squares and possible to the interior of the ship if it breaks through the armor.  For the 1-15 ship, you'd see 3 adjacent squares change color (indicating destroyed armor) and get 1 point of interior damage.  For the 2-15 ship, you'd see 3 adjacent squares change color in the top layer, and the square in the middle of the 3 in the next layer down would also change color (be destroyed).  Your ships armor would now be breached in that middle spot, but no interior damage would have been done because the 1 point was used to destroy the second layer square of armor.  If you took another hit in the same area (so that damage hit that middle square) it would penetrate, since there's no longer armor on that middle square.

John
 

Offline WCG

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2010, 01:33:18 PM »
Thanks, John. That's very clear.

Bill
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: How does Armour work? concerning thickness
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2010, 05:54:36 PM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
PDCs are an exception. Their armor is thicker per layer.


PDCs get a bonus 4 layers, due to the rock/mountain/whatever they're built into/under.  Think of NORAAD headquarters at Cheyenne Mountain, Wyoming.