An Aurora Community Game

[Detjen (OP)]

It goes by many names,  Dwarf Fortress calls them bloodline or succession games,  Lets play its also another name for these games, but call it what you will they share a common idea.    Get a group of people together around their favorite game,  and see how bad you can screw everything up when you have multiple agendas pulling every which way.  results are often Fun both in entertainment scene and the Dwarf Fortress sense.  (For those who dont know Dwarf Fortress Fun in that game means horrible death at the hands of spoilers)

I thinks Aurora would make a great community game.    the idea would be to run a turn every week,  a turn obviously in this game needs to be varied, you might have months with nothing going as you often do early on, so a turn at first may be several months,  but then you get into a war, turns become days or even hours to give our strategists time to think, plan, or hide in bunkers as the overwhelming fleet of doom bears down on earth.    Each week I process a turn, write up a little info on what happened, probably provide a save file once in a while so those who want can see the data first hand,  and then we plan for the next week,  ship designs, research, and other things a proposed and voted on by the group, a winning ship design could go into production,  the group would have to decide how to allocate our research to which projects and which scientists.

All we need are a few test subjects dwarves players crazy enough to give this a shot

[Panopticon]

I'm running a variant of this with my friends, it is a multi-empire campaign like Steves Nato Vs Soviet thing, but instead of me playing all the factions my friends are each taking the role of one and giving me general ideas for strategy and development.  I do all the actual button pressing and throw challenges their way, almost like GMing a regular RPG.
We communicate every day or so with updates and their nations reactions to events, it works pretty well and you don't have to worry about figuring out turns, which is what kept me from running a more traditional style of succession game.

[Detjen (OP)]

   That sounds pretty cool and actually the method is the same idea I had.    I would basically be a GM ill run the turns and report what happened, post saves once in a while for those who want to see the data first hand,  but otherwise avoiding the handoffs like you do in the succession games.     also everyone would be working together in one faction,  having to compromise and deal to get things worked out rather than trying to blow each other up.     

  How is yours working out,  because that also sounds kinda neat, letting people play against one another, what kind of difficulties pop up with things like combat?  I imagine you cant let two sides going at it take five second turns or it would take forever.

[Hawkeye]

There is a community play running over at spacebattles. Take a look (or two)

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?s=0f18aac00e27a6e7342cecc5f5706943&t=181780

[ardem]

I been thinking the same thing actually, I be happy to participate, question is multiple empire or multiple positions within the one empire, which could be very interesting.

[Panopticon]

Detjen

It's working out fine, as they don't take turns and give only general strategies like research and construction directions and colonization efforts.  I only really have to pause the game and await feedback when an event occurs that might lead to combat.

For instance in my current game the nations have been building up relatively peacefully, bickering and making deals with each other, but now someone is picking off their transports and escorts when they are outside of Earth sensor range (They are all still stuck in Sol)

They don't know who is doing it (I do, it is a new, pirate faction based in the moons of Saturn controlled by me) but since the attacks are being done by captured or obsolete ships from the various factions, they are all assuming one of the others is doing it.  They have managed to avoid outright starting a firefight with the others yet but now many have sent exploratory fleets out with the stated purpose of finding and destroying whoever is responsible.

The players all know that once the fleets leave then I will be handling the fight from beginning to end without their further input and will RP their reactions in combat to things like communication or surrender offers based on their standing orders to me.  They will get an AAR based on what their ships are in a position to see and be able to react to the political fallout afterwards.

The political stuff is pretty easy to RP, they handle that between themselves in email discussions on a gmail group I set up.  Since RL political stuff takes a long time anyway I RP it as happening over the course of in game years and don't sweat responses to things like treaty or trade offers.

Things have been going pretty well, except now my increments keep getting cut short as freighters come and go out of sensor range, it's only gotten worse now that the civilian industry is starting up.

[Sheb]

Panopticon's game sound cool. I think Aurora is much more suited to such a game than to a normal, DF-style succession game. I'd play it.

[ardem]

Alternate

Is a single nation with different positions, Mining/Survey/Gatebuilder, Military, Scientist, Class Design/Production and President, you could expand this with a few colonies.

Of course you need a GM to control the game.

[Detjen (OP)]

  Thanks for the link looks like its been going for a while lots to catch up on.   

   I want to run a single empire,  with everyone running positions within.   for positions I have thought of  two types,  primary and secondary.   Primary position would basically be the senate of the nation,  everyone gets to be a senator and the senate will handle things such as RD allocation (what to research who gets the labs) and construction on the planets, voting on military designs and on military requests to build ships or units.

Secondary Positions would fall to the military commanders and the like,  companies who design components or design ships and so on.   at first I was thinking about what ardem suggested with groups being mining and survey, military, science, and so forth,  but I worry some people would have nothing to do.   for example military at the beginning dont have alot to fight,  or hitting delays in surveying and so on.   

 BUT then I want the game to really be conforming to the desires of the players,  if everyone thinks its better to do it that way then we can of course.   I intend to run the GM portion and will participate a little bit in the festivities and have no issues with making sure it works out for everyones fun

[ardem]

Detjen not to jump in on your action just to offer a perspective how I could see it working.

From the point of view of a one empire environment. First you would need to know how many people would like to sign up, before you really can see if a game type would work.

I can't see people running certain military commands working, as it would be very slow in progressing the game.

I suggest you can running different functions like ministries.

President - Assigns Research, Alien Diplomacy and assign ministries to players overall tasks but not directly (e.g. We need more sorium, we will attack this race) The role is voted on by all players ever 5 years the President also then assigns ministries. A person declares themselves running for president.

Ministries
Production/Ship Building Minister - The role decides the priority of the various colony and shipyard productions
Design Minister - Designs all Ship classes and Components ready for research
Defence Minister - The allocation of military assets into the various systems as well as military goals (Actual fleet and ship function role played by the Computer Operator,GM, whatever you like to call it)
Survey Minister - Allocation of Survey Vessels and Survey Teams
Support Minister - Allocation of Commerical Vessels and civilian fleet tasks, for transport duties
Optional HR Minister - Allocation of Medals and Personnel to the various assigned tasks
Optional Planetary Defence Minister - Allocation of ground Troops and PDC and ODP units, space mines.
Optional Mining Minister - Allocation of mining assets and sorium harvesters
Optional Sector Production/Ship Building Minister - If there are a lot of people wanting to be involed then you can add sectors or colony ministers each colony

Ministers will need to work with other ministers, in getting the relevant resources and probably need to make decisions that will put one other ministers over another's which will create politics, which ultimately then will decide on who would be president.

The president, can not directly interfere with the ministries duties, but can assign strategic goals and allocate research goals.

I think with this system you will have politics, friction of people working together and a great story line of information, also it allows people to be mixed up occasionally with the introductions of a new president and new cabinet.

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From a Gm point of view, you roleplay all the minor players, star captains, fleet commanders, planetary governors and provide detail around the events

Optional Provide detail direct to each of the ministries and on a quarterly basis the ministries give there report to the rest of the players. This creates a litte bit of fog for the game.

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For some extra spice you can create events, which can affect the race (by using play race you can modify some attributes), these could be in the way of forming the rules of a government and laws, you could start of with a small amount of laws about the ministry and president and using a sandbox to vote on responsibilities, Such like to laws are you go along like a real government.

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I think you would need to request a forum from Erik and then a subfolder for each ministry, this will allow easy of management of the data. Perhaps on the main folder you can add posts about different events that affect all ministries.

[LtWarhound]

Another alternative to the rotating player game is a game where a GM sets up the initial game, then posts the stevefire. mdb for anyone to play.   Those that want to can then download it, play it out and post a report on how it went.   That lets you see how different options worked out (turtle vs bold early exploration, missile heavy vs beam heavy, aggressive vs diplomatic, hordes of smaller ships vs a few big ones, etc).

[Detjen (OP)]

Not at all I love the input your giving,  I really only had the vague idea I posted,  I did think of a minister like thing that you listed but I was afraid of gaps where someone wouldnt see any action and get bored and so on.   but it may work better than anything I have,  and above all I want a system that works and that everyone helps build like a real government,  I would even leave it open for the possibility of turning it into an empire if its what the players chose to do.   your system also puts a place in for president, I really had no idea what special function a president could hold in my idea, other than maybe the title, but yours gives them something to shoot for.   

I think I would actually like to use your proposal with one change, the design ministry.   I feel as though the actual design of ships should be open for everyone,  let the people suggest designs and the various other ministries could pick and choose the ones they want to use, though maybe they could stay on and design the components that get built in ships then people would have to petition the minister to design components they want to use, and it would be up to them to decide if its worth it or not

[Thiosk]

The design ministry is a great idea.  Would involve public interactions.

But do it by the lowest bidder for a particular design!  That way, various forum members can make up their own corporations.  Government orders a line of vessels, say a 14000 ton beam warship, and the the cheapest bid is constructed.  Within reason, of course.  With enough interest, you could even port out all the component design; instant all racial techs for simplicity.

You could even do a fun little meta game.  Having a bid rejected grants lobby points, and every ship of your design that gets actually constructed grants more lobby points.  Lobby points can be expended to reduce the cost of your design.  So say if one person had a lot of chosen designs, the community could band together and pool lobby points to force the construction of their vessels, at least to break the monopoly.  

Could get ugly in the fighter and missile markets!  And forcing the actual players to deal with sub-optimal missiles and fighters, produced only to make money and lobby points, would be hilarious for the community to watch!  Spam up some cheap ass fighter that dies by the thousand, but the government already ordered their bid.  Ha!  Uh oh, the alien ships are the perfect, ideal counter for our fleet.  PANIC!  BUY MORE SAME FLEET!  Its like Super Halliburton, but they actually want your military to die so they can amass more power.  The construction player would track which designs were ordered and built, and grant points at the time of ordering.  At the end of the construction order, the choice to order another batch or open new bids can be made.

[ardem]

The one thing where I thought, why a person should not control there design for there area is because it create friction, you do not get exactly what you want. And friction creates interesting stories.

The Survey minister put a proposal forward to the design committee, but is allow no input other then the base specifications -
I want a Grav Survey Vessel that is capable of Jump, Range of 50 million kms and ability complete a grav survey of a system within a month.

The design ministry could pick a design from the design committee, and from there it is determined from the charter, initially the charter may say that the minister is sole responsible for the choice of design. The charter may change later with a vote that the production minister must approve the design, or the president. But there must be a vote to changes to the charter.

If you add all ministries forums open to the public but yet still have a minister involved in the decision making you have a system of government. Every 5 years you have elections and all registered players (citizens get to vote or run for office) With the president picking his /her cabinet for 5 years.

You could also use subcommittee on investigation whenever there is an issue in that ministry, for additional flavour if you want. Ministers may hire staff do help in various sectors and give them responsibilities.

You can really open it up dependant on the number of players you want to play. But initial I think you should get enough to play the ministries atleast then after that, you can change the game from there with changes to the charter.

Again these are all thoughts how you could make a invested game from players and public alike.

The importance on people not getting bored is in the rotation of a new president and new cabinet and new positions. It is important to note that the president could get revoted, I believe if it is not in the charter anything is possible then you rule against it.

For instance the charter is very light, we see an issue where the president keep getting revoted, so there is a charter change put forward that a president can only have 2 consecutive terms in office. I think every time some puts forward a charter change, there is debate on the charter, the orignal proposer can alter it or not and then get voted. This basicly create your ruleset throughout the game.

Again this is just a small portion to the game, the politics is only a component then you have the game itself.

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I do like the corporation design thoughts, public members instead of being civilians could be corps, with the design minister not designing but picking, again the design minister will have to have his own thoughts and pick what is best with the production and military/commercial/survey minister breathing down his neck.

[Detjen (OP)]

  Yes, your right, I think the basic idea is there, and probly solid, the minute details of how many ministers is dependant on number of players at this point, and can always be adjusted as necessary which is a great story event idea to go with it, the expanding government or whatnot.    I have to admit im getting more excited by the idea thank you everyone for your ideas, i hope this really works out, it sounds like fun.