Monarch class battleship of the Space Habsburg Empire

[Hungaricus (OP)]

Hi there fellow aurora fans!

   After the first few incident with the Empire of Valamateriel and the Battle of the Scharnhorst system the KuK Kriegmarine started the design process of new ship classes. The small force of 27 12kT DD was fine for system defense but inadequate for offensive operations. (Since it would leave said systems exposed and as sys defense ships they wouldn't have the range anyway.)
   The first of the new ones is the Monarch class battleship with an impressive 72kT traveler tons of displacement. (Its 1.008.000 metric ton) The class primary purpose is to be the flagships of their respected fleet(s) and have the capacity to destroy any hostile ship and weather the incoming fire even after a jump into hostile territory.  The ship itself is not jump capable to safe space.

Code: [Select]

   Monarch class Battleship      72,000 tons       1,967 Crew       18,814.3 BP       TCS 1,440    TH 8,294    EM 10,320
5760 km/s      Armour 12-154       Shields 344-537       HTK 558      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 117      PPV 1302.12
Maint Life 2.38 Years     MSP 17,309    AFR 728%    IFR 10.1%    1YR 4,176    5YR 62,639    Max Repair 1382.4 MSP
Magazine 1,160    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Kommodore    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP2764.80 (3)    Power 8294.4    Fuel Use 16.63%    Signature 2764.8    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 2,324,000 Litres    Range 34.9 billion km (70 days at full power)
Epsilon S172 / R537 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 537 seconds (0.6 per second)

45.0cm C6 Soft X-ray Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 6,250 km/s     Power 53-6     RM 60,000 km    ROF 45       
Triple 30cm C6 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (2x3)    Range 384,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 72-18     RM 60,000 km    ROF 20       
Particle Lance-18 (4)    Range 384,000km     TS: 6,250 km/s     Power 55-6     RM 400,000 km    ROF 50       
Quad 15.0cm  Laser Turret "Xiphos" (3x4)    Range 360,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 24-24     RM 60,000 km    ROF 5       
Twin Gauss Turret "Telamon" (8x10)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R384-TS10000 (30%) (2)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 10,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Beam Fire Control R144-TS25000 (30%) (4)     Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 25,000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 38 31
Stellarator Fusion Reactor R26-PB30 (7)     Total Power Output 183.4    Exp 15%

Size 8.00 Box Launcher (120)     Missile Size: 8    Hangar Reload 141 minutes    MF Reload 23 hours
Size 1 Missile Launcher (20)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC20-R1 (30%) (5)     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC94-R100 (30%) (12)     Range 94.3m km    Resolution 100
ASM-8B " Granit" (120)    Speed: 39,000 km/s    End: 16.4m     Range: 38.3m km    WH: 16    Size: 8    TH: 234/140/70
AMM-1A "Sarissa" (200)    Speed: 57,600 km/s    End: 0.8m     Range: 2.8m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 614/368/184

Active Search Sensor AS210-R100 (30%) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 210.8m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS55-R1 (30%) (1)     GPS 540     Range 55.6m km    MCR 6.1m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-3 (6)         ECM 30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
  The layered Phalanx defensive system is responsible to protect the ship against incoming missiles and the new cruisers will feature it too. The first line of defense is the "Sarissa" AMM-s the second is the "Xiphos" quad 15cm laser turrets which job also include anti FAC and fighter duty. The last line is the "Telamon" turreted dual gauss system. Together they should be able to intercept roughly 100-200 incoming missiles. The ship can theoretically intercept around 400 missiles but that's highly unlikely but the pessimistic estimate is around a 100. 
The "Sarissa" :

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 1.000 MSP  (2.5000 Tons)     Warhead: 1    Radiation Damage: 1    Manoeuvre Rating: 32
Speed: 57,600 km/s     Fuel: 125     Flight Time: 48.5 seconds     Range: 2,793,600 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.140     Development Cost: 214
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1843.2%   3k km/s 614.4%   5k km/s 368.6%   10k km/s 184.3%

Materials Required
Tritanium  0.250
Gallicite  1.890
Fuel:  125 The ship sensor and fire control suit is the very best of the fleet as well. The oversized anti-missile fire controls and sensors are doubling as anti-fighter sensors and back-up ASM controls as well. (With the added benefit of extra interception chance against incoming missiles.)
 The ship has very strong passive defenses as well compared to other ships in the fleet. 12 layer of our very best armor for such a huge ship is ought to soak up damage and the strength 344 shield can withstand 21,5 "Granit" missile.
 The "Granit" missile:

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 8.00 MSP  (20.000 Tons)     Warhead: 16    Radiation Damage: 16    Manoeuvre Rating: 18
Speed: 39,000 km/s     Fuel: 2,500     Flight Time: 16 minutes     Range: 38.32m km
ECM Modifier: 30%     ECCM Modifier: 30%
Cost Per Missile: 16.00     Development Cost: 1,600
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 702%   3k km/s 234%   5k km/s 140.4%   10k km/s 70.2%

Materials Required
Corbomite  3
Tritanium  4
Gallicite  9.00
Fuel:  2500
The "Granit" has a strong warhead almost twice as big as it's predecessors str. 9 one. It's faster, more maneuverable and has a trice as strong ECM and ECCM capacity and with almost twice as long range.

 The ship also has a strong energy armament which includes a huge 45cm spinal mounted laser two triple 30cm laser turrets and 4 big particle lance for long range engagements plus the Phalanx system's energy weapon can engage enemy vessels as well.
 The particles lances should be devastating to a shieldless ship. The empire never encountered a ship with 18 layers of armor so internal damage is guaranteed.

Planned Monarch class vessels:
SMS Monarch
SMS Wien
The Monarch class will be supported by cruisers but those are not ready yet. After the completion of the first new fleet I will refit my existing DD-s as well but currently the aliens can attack at any moment.
I have 2 huge support vessels as well with 72kT of commercial hanger space to reload refuel and resupply these ships or 6  DD-s or 3 of my planned cruisers.


What do you think about the Monarch class? Also I am trying to name a few components but I want to identify them easily as well. How do you name your stuff?

[Ri0Rdian]

It is really late and I just ran through the post (plus I am no expert at missiles, trying to avoid them if possible) but that AMM seems to have poor hit chance against actual missile (used your own ASM as example). Always bad at math, but that is not horribly bad, just low (I think below 50% AMM hit is wasteful).

But most importantly, I love that you build those big ships, more people should play like that. I always feel like half-insane scientist by building my 2m ton fuel harvesters or terraformers (though those are bases). Compared to common 8-15k ships that is a behemoth, against 72k, not as much. Keep at it! 

Edit:

To keep with the theme, Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser! (or whoever is yours!) 

[Jorgen_CAB]

You don't design AMMs to intercept your own missiles so if they are good enough really depends. It is generally better to loose resources on missiles rather than ships for example.

But if the case here is shooting down your own missiles the AMM have a 47% chance to intercept, but that is without ECM, the ECM reduce that chance to only 17%. A 47% is a really good value, 17% are starting to look bad though. From a resource perspective you use about 2.14/0.17 or 12.5 BP for every enemy missile you shoot down that have a cost of 16 BP. From a space perspective you use about 6 MSP worth of AMM for 8 MSP worth of enemy ASM.

The trade off is not as bad as you would think...

An AMM with a 50% chance to hit is generally an extremely effective AMM from a resource perspective.

In terms of total cost this ship could waste about 9000 AMM before loosing the ship itself is better from a resource perspective.   

In regards to design the only thing I never do is using box launchers on capital ships as some form of main armament... I don't think it is worth the hassle to be honest and stick with the smallest possible launcher that can reload from internal magazines (x0.3HS). This gives better options for use of different types of missiles. In general that is a long, medium and close ranged torpedo type missile. I feel like I'm putting too many eggs in one basket if I pre select one kind of missile and go off on a long mission somewhere.

AS I also often play multiple-faction games and face other stuff that is not NPRs then having only one solution or volley to do damage can be problematic because you don't know if it is enough or if you are wasting ammunition. If you target too many missiles on one target the enemy can just focus on the other missiles and give up on one or two ships and scuttle them as the fleet split up to identify which missiles are targeted at which ship. These are things an NPR would never do... 
Most of these fights in those games end up with one side retreating with a few losses as no one wants to commit to beam range but the weaker side move away...

I also would massively favour fighters to have box launchers over capital ships, so I would fit hangars instead of the box launches and use carriers at that point... which I usually do. Missiles on ships are basically backup or meant for patrolling ships at that point and play more of a secondary strike role.

I'm not saying that it is bad by any stretch to use box launchers kike this... I simply don't like that doctrine in that way. Especially as I would never allow ships that large to rearm in a carrier in my campaigns, but that is a RP thing.

The ship itself are pretty darn impressive in terms of defences, even against their own 120 ASM salvo... it would have a small chance to survive... especially if the AMM also had an ECCM module. And that is with no escorts which I believe this ship probably would have in most cases.

One other thing that sort of worries me though about the doctrine is the range of the missiles... if they are so short I would just go right ahead an make them very short range to make them even harder to intercept... or really long range to lob missiles from a range the enemy can't' retaliate. 40m kilometre is sort of a strange range at this technology level for a large capital ship.

[Father Tim]

It's a fine big battleship that violates dreadnought principles by having a mixed main battery, a powerful secondary battery, and someone seems to have strapped an absurd number of torpedo tubes to the deck.  Definitely drop the spinal mount weapon.

The tertiary battery 6" DP guns are good, but there should be twice as many of them.  The AA suite looks good, but only time will tell.

The armour is too weak to be 'balanced' -- meaning it's own guns will penetrate it at battle ranges.

- - - - -

I, of course, completely disagree with my learned colleague above.  It is better (more fun) to spend resources on ships than missiles (AM, AS, or otherwise).

[Nori]

Fun ship. Inspired by yours I put a 80kt one together for fun. You can fit a lot on these things.

A few suggestions:
Box launchers are rather odd for such a large ship like this. If the reload time isn't a big deal, I would suggest one of the other reduced size so that you at least don't have to leave the field to reload. 12 fire controls for 120 missiles sounds good, but unless your target is unarmed, I doubt 10 missiles will be enough to get through defenses and destroy it. I'd suggest 2-4 controls. You can always change your target in the next increment after all.

Of similar note, too many beam fire controls. 2 and 2 is probably plenty. I'm curious on why both 15cm and 30cm lasers? 15cm isn't the best for PD and if you want damage the 30cm would be much better. I'd drop the 15cm personally..

Anyway, them be my thoughts.

[Hungaricus (OP)]

It is really late and I just ran through the post (plus I am no expert at missiles, trying to avoid them if possible) but that AMM seems to have poor hit chance against actual missile (used your own ASM as example). Always bad at math, but that is not horribly bad, just low (I think below 50% AMM hit is wasteful).

But most importantly, I love that you build those big ships, more people should play like that. I always feel like half-insane scientist by building my 2m ton fuel harvesters or terraformers (though those are bases). Compared to common 8-15k ships that is a behemoth, against 72k, not as much. Keep at it! 

Edit:

To keep with the theme, Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser! (or whoever is yours!) 

Thanks for the feedback! I was surprised when I saw that noone did the Habsburg Empire theme before and as I quite like the era it just felt natural. Accoridng my RP backstory the Habsburgs married themselfs to the top of the world and united most. (The divergence point is the Spanish Succesion War in my timeline.)

I like to build big ships for 2 reason mostly. (Aside from the rule of cool.)
1.) Bigger components and more layers of armor are considerably more efficient.
2.) I don't like speciliast ships. “A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.” is my motto.

My bases are much smaller though in this playtrough so I can tow them faster. I forced myself to a maximum of 500kT.

[Hungaricus (OP)]

You don't design AMMs to intercept your own missiles so if they are good enough really depends. It is generally better to loose resources on missiles rather than ships for example.

But if the case here is shooting down your own missiles the AMM have a 47% chance to intercept, but that is without ECM, the ECM reduce that chance to only 17%. A 47% is a really good value, 17% are starting to look bad though. From a resource perspective you use about 2.14/0.17 or 12.5 BP for every enemy missile you shoot down that have a cost of 16 BP. From a space perspective you use about 6 MSP worth of AMM for 8 MSP worth of enemy ASM.

The trade off is not as bad as you would think...

An AMM with a 50% chance to hit is generally an extremely effective AMM from a resource perspective.

In terms of total cost this ship could waste about 9000 AMM before loosing the ship itself is better from a resource perspective.   

In regards to design the only thing I never do is using box launchers on capital ships as some form of main armament... I don't think it is worth the hassle to be honest and stick with the smallest possible launcher that can reload from internal magazines (x0.3HS). This gives better options for use of different types of missiles. In general that is a long, medium and close ranged torpedo type missile. I feel like I'm putting too many eggs in one basket if I pre select one kind of missile and go off on a long mission somewhere.

AS I also often play multiple-faction games and face other stuff that is not NPRs then having only one solution or volley to do damage can be problematic because you don't know if it is enough or if you are wasting ammunition. If you target too many missiles on one target the enemy can just focus on the other missiles and give up on one or two ships and scuttle them as the fleet split up to identify which missiles are targeted at which ship. These are things an NPR would never do... 
Most of these fights in those games end up with one side retreating with a few losses as no one wants to commit to beam range but the weaker side move away...

I also would massively favour fighters to have box launchers over capital ships, so I would fit hangars instead of the box launches and use carriers at that point... which I usually do. Missiles on ships are basically backup or meant for patrolling ships at that point and play more of a secondary strike role.

I'm not saying that it is bad by any stretch to use box launchers kike this... I simply don't like that doctrine in that way. Especially as I would never allow ships that large to rearm in a carrier in my campaigns, but that is a RP thing.

The ship itself are pretty darn impressive in terms of defences, even against their own 120 ASM salvo... it would have a small chance to survive... especially if the AMM also had an ECCM module. And that is with no escorts which I believe this ship probably would have in most cases.

One other thing that sort of worries me though about the doctrine is the range of the missiles... if they are so short I would just go right ahead an make them very short range to make them even harder to intercept... or really long range to lob missiles from a range the enemy can't' retaliate. 40m kilometre is sort of a strange range at this technology level for a large capital ship.

Thanks for the feedback!
Well my AMM-s are the first generation of their kind because I struggled to make them useful. My main problem is I don't see how can I cram so many things in a such a small body. I am investigating currently if I would be better of with 1,2-1,5 size AMM-s. I can fit an ECCM into that while the speed of the missile should be the same(ish).

The range of the ASM is a compromise really. in VB6 I preferred 100-150mkm range but with the new system those would mean a huge sacrifice. 40mkm is comfortably midrange with 1MSP of fuel with this kind of range there is still hope if the original missile salvo fails to run for it before the enemy catches up. But I have to admit I am currently designing a short range torpedo variant with as much speed as its possible.

If I were to increase my launcher size to 0,3 it would mean I have only a 60ASM salvo. ( 80 with size 6 ASM-s) That's simply not enough in my opinion. Even if I can fire multiple times 60 missiles it's still much easier to destroy 60. This ship have 8x2x5 shots for only the gauss cannons. Which translates to ~34 shot down missile if they came at the same speed as the Granit and no other bonuses apply. But there are other defenses on the ship. I don't thing there would be more than a leak missile or two. So the salvo would be wasted. I would rather punch hard very hard when I have the opportunity.

[Hungaricus (OP)]

It's a fine big battleship that violates dreadnought principles by having a mixed main battery, a powerful secondary battery, and someone seems to have strapped an absurd number of torpedo tubes to the deck.  Definitely drop the spinal mount weapon.

The tertiary battery 6" DP guns are good, but there should be twice as many of them.  The AA suite looks good, but only time will tell.

The armour is too weak to be 'balanced' -- meaning it's own guns will penetrate it at battle ranges.

- - - - -

I, of course, completely disagree with my learned colleague above.  It is better (more fun) to spend resources on ships than missiles (AM, AS, or otherwise).

Well I think what works for a navy is not necessarily works for a space-navy but this ships is more a battleship (Pre-Dreadnought). The armor was a sacrifice to save space for the shields. The two combined should provide ample passive defense.

I like to spend on both. And the anticipation and excitement is terrific when you watch your ASM-s.

Edit: Why should I drop the spinal laser?

[Hungaricus (OP)]

Fun ship. Inspired by yours I put a 80kt one together for fun. You can fit a lot on these things.

A few suggestions:
Box launchers are rather odd for such a large ship like this. If the reload time isn't a big deal, I would suggest one of the other reduced size so that you at least don't have to leave the field to reload. 12 fire controls for 120 missiles sounds good, but unless your target is unarmed, I doubt 10 missiles will be enough to get through defenses and destroy it. I'd suggest 2-4 controls. You can always change your target in the next increment after all.

Of similar note, too many beam fire controls. 2 and 2 is probably plenty. I'm curious on why both 15cm and 30cm lasers? 15cm isn't the best for PD and if you want damage the 30cm would be much better. I'd drop the 15cm personally..

Anyway, them be my thoughts.

 I am glad you find it fun! I hope your BB will have glorious moments in battle.
I chose the box launchers because only with those can I have the biggest possible alpha strike. The 12 fire controls is there in case the enemy would try to swarm me with FAC-s and fighters. 10 missile ought kill a FAC even if half of it is wasted against PD-fire or misses. That's why I have more BFC-s than I really need but admittedly 2-2 should be enough. I just really don't want to loose efficient PD fire thanks to some freak hits.
 The 30cm is for mid/longer range and for bigger targets mostly. When you need the penetration but you want more ROF than 50 or 45sec. This way you have more chance to actually hit them. And ofc if there are numerous small enemy ships these can deal with those too albeit at a reduced rate. I assume small ships would be faster thus harder to hit especially if those small ships are fighters or FAC-s so ROF is essential and that's why I have the 15cm lasers too. Every 5 sec there is a chance to hit them. Against something small the 15cm laser is deadly and with the 5 sec ROF it has the best chance to hit them. Also they can grind the bigger ships down with enough hits.
 

[Father Tim]

Edit: Why should I drop the spinal laser?

It has terrible tracking speed compared to your turrets, terrible rate of fire compared to your turrets, and lousy weight (and space) efficiency compared to your particle lances.  And it doesn't match your particle lances for rate of fire.  The major benefit of a spinal weapon (longer range) is negated by your fire control.

It is the classic pre-dreadnought problem of every weapon on the ship wants to fight at different ranges, so unless your enemy divides & positions themselves at those ranges, portions of your armament are going to be at severe disadvantage.

Swapping the spinal laser for more laser turrets (large or small) or particle lances would give the ship a much more rational damage-range profile.  Having all your non-AA (point defense) weapons with a RoF of 20 or 50 makes salvo-matching far easier.  With the spinal at 45 seconds you may very well be 'wasting' its damage on shield recharging in a long-range fight.

[macks]

I mean, sure the spinal beam is not efficient or super useful, but imagining a 450mm spinal beam tearing through a cruiser is worth it imo. Every 45 seconds, something will meet its maker in a fantastic explosion.

[Father Tim]

Hey, it's your ship, do what you like.

But that is why I would drop the spinal laser.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Spinal lasers of really large size is brutal and can cause massive damage through sheer chock if it does not outright tear through the armour. Combination of heavy hitters and fast firing high rate of fire lasers are very effective.

In this case though... since you also have particle lances I would agree that Spinal lasers don't make that much sense other than for the fun factor... if you have them then why not use them I say.

In terms of the launcher and smaller salvo size it really does not matter... instead of arriving to the battlefield with one Cruiser and a handful of escorts you arrive with two battle cruisers with no escorts as they bring their own defences anyway that way. Now you also have the option of choosing how many offensive and defensive missiles they carry and what types and you can change them in the field from long, medium or short range missiles and in which proportion of AMM versus ASM they carry at any time. It also is very easy to use excessive force with box launchers and then leave you open for a surprise counterattack from a hidden force.

In my opinion versatility is more important... you still would have the same throw weight... it is just a measure of how much do you value defence or offence. If you bring 4 cruisers with 120 missiles you have half the defensive capacity as if you bring 8 cruisers to do the same job. If you don't care about the defence and you find that it is good enough then all is well, that is the doctrine you set out to have, there are many example in our world where both have been successfully used.

My doctrine usually go by the metric that any battle-group must be able to handle an enemy at least three times it size in terms of missile defences using a layered defence strategy. If I ever intend to assault something the minimum battle doctrine dictate at least a 5:1 strength in my favour or the assault are deemed too risky as you can't ever know all the details.

[Vastrat]

Good looking ship design. Thanks for sharing.

[misanthropope]

everybody loves a battleship, even the guys who would never build one.

lemme start with the controversial suggestion.  too much armor.  if you just gotta have passive defenses (hiss), plow half the tonnage back into shields.  lean into the big ship advantages, i say.

i have no problem with box launchers on big ships, insufficient throw weight will kill you just as dead as running out of ammo, right?  but his majesty here is kind of rocking the swiss army knife, and some specialized ammo (and the ability to load it...) fits the theme.

speaking of specialized, one of the real big ship advantages is specialized fire controls.  idk how much use you get out of a dozen MFCs for the offensive missiles, i think maybe a pair each in res4, 18 and 150, or thereabouts would do you more good, supposing you elect to go with more versatile missiles.  im kind of repetitive on this point, but specialized fighter-killing apparatus is more valuable (IMO) than specialized ship-killing apparatus.  it may take some persistence to kill an ogre with a rolled up newspaper, but nothing like having to kill a fly with a battleaxe.

back to controversial.   i think your offensive missile caliber is too large.  a half-granit seems to me to be an excellent munition; you're right at that RP endowment where cost-effectiveness against AMMs becomes a real consideration.

having one of everything, or hell, two, is part of the charm, but i feel the 15s are the best of your lasers.  they make nice secondary weapons for the lances at longer ranges, and one notes you shelled out for range on your gauss guns, so THEY back up your 15s in a knife fight.