Suggestions for 3.3

[Kurt (OP)]

Steve-  

I was transferring fuel around in one of my expploration squadrons when I encountered this annoying little feature.  One the "Individual Units Details" screen, on the "miscellaneous" tab, while transferring fuel, I noticed that every time I hit the "transfer to" or "transfer from" button the target of the transfer reset to the first ship on the list.  As a result of this I kept transferring fuel from the wrong ship every time I forgot that this reset.  It would be nice if the target of the transfer remained the same until I rest it.  

Kurt

[Steve Walmsley]

Steve-  

I was transferring fuel around in one of my expploration squadrons when I encountered this annoying little feature.  One the "Individual Units Details" screen, on the "miscellaneous" tab, while transferring fuel, I noticed that every time I hit the "transfer to" or "transfer from" button the target of the transfer reset to the first ship on the list.  As a result of this I kept transferring fuel from the wrong ship every time I forgot that this reset.  It would be nice if the target of the transfer remained the same until I rest it.  

Fixed for v3.3

Steve

[Kurt (OP)]

Steve -

Recent events in my campaign have had me considering the repair situation in Aurora.  Now, I admit that maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it seems to me that repairs are problematic.  After all, damaged ships have to sit at the planet with the shipyards, waiting for a slipway at a shipyard of the proper size to clear before it can be repaired.  This may take years if it is a larger ship, as pausing construction on a new ship just stops construction, it doesn't make that slipway available for use for repairs or anything else.  That means that your only choice is to cancel construction or wait for the new ship to be launched.  

That got me to thinking about possible alternatives, and several come to mind.  First off, how about specialized slipways just for repair.  They would have the same capacity limitations as regular slipways, but wouldn't be specialized for a single class, and would only be able to do repairs (or maybe refits as well).  They would be much cheaper than regular slipways, because they are less useful.  A government might not have any of these during peace, but during war they would be very useful to have, as damaged ships wouldn't be clogging up the yards.  

Another possibility is a repair module, that would use maintenance supplies to repair battle damage.  

Or, you could change things so that pausing a new construction order would free up that slipway to do something else, so that repairs could be initiated immediately without having to cancel the new construction or wait for the ship to be launched.  

I'm sure there are other possibilities, I am just looking for a way around the bottleneck.  

Kurt

[waresky]

Steve,ur "game" are far from "simplicistic" right?...so..
whynot setup an "hard realistic" option: FOG real map..

i mean: when u enter in another system u dont know anything,u not know every planet position..and final u NOT know HOW many planet are in a system.
In a "fog" situation u MUST setup a real survey mission,visual distance for "spotting" a planet or have a right "sensor for "ping" on a map,with a "?" dot on map..

hope u have understand whatever am mean..
Are more "thrilling" enter in a system REAL unknow.
Do u remember Megatraveller yeah? an Squadroon need to Gas Giant or H2O for refuel..BUT..r sure u found in a system?and EXIST a planet or gas giant?
For me this "fog" are more exiting than enemy encounter...

Hope have an "options" same in a 3.3

[kdstubbs]

Essentially the concept of a repair dock works.  The US Navy for example has a mobile dry dock, which is capable of handling up to an 80,000 ton ship.  We used it to move the USS Stark from the Middle East back to the ship yard for repairs.  The idea of a dry dock would allow you to have any ship come into the way, conduct repairs and then refloat or relaunch the ship back into space.  It does not build ship, it simply allows you to make fast repairs to damaged ships.  

In Starfire, I usually build a fast mobile shipyard or machine shop into a large hull, so I can conduct repairs forward.  Under Aurora I would image a space dock would allow you to place the equivalent of a dry dock in space.  The facility would only allow for a ship to dock inside, provide shirtsleeve environment for repair, and then pump out all the air, and relaunch the ship.  This would allow you to repair armor damage or do major overhauls that do not require a full shipyard.  

Just a follow up on Kurt's idea

[backstab]

Steve-

Will it be possable to split your ground foces into groups and have them attack different empires/nations on the same planet and maybe hold some back as reserves ?

[schroeam]

Since we've determined that the ship's don't actually stay in orbit unless you put them there, maybe just allow the maintenance facilities to take care of all repairs and overhauls unless damage is too great.  Say, for example, the majority of the ship is gone, yet somehow it didn't blow up, it would require an actual shipyard to repair, or rebuild as it would be, but if it came home under it's own power then the maintenance facility could handle it.  The U.S. Navy tries to do as much repairs outside of drydocks as possible... too much $$$ involved.  It may come down to allowing the MF to handle the repairs, and allowing the shipyard to do the repairs, and letting the player decide what level of damage a shipyard is required.

Adam.

[Kurt (OP)]

Steve-

Will it be possable to split your ground foces into groups and have them attack different empires/nations on the same planet and maybe hold some back as reserves ?

Okay, this is my third attempt to post this message.  This morning I think I took too long and it timed out when I tried to post it, and just now I started writing this, then decided I needed to do some research, so I copied what I had written, did my research, then came back and the texted that I had copied was gone.  The third time is either going to be a charm, or I give up.  

Backstab's post above got me thinking about ground combat, something I have been pondering on and off for some time, especially given the likely importance that it may have in my campaign.  The suggestion above crystalized some ideas that have been bouncing around in my head for a while.  The changes I'm thinking of are taken from some of the strategic level games I've played in the past, and I think that they will give ground combat in Aurora more of an interesting dimension.  

Working from Backstab's suggestion and the strategic games I mentioned, I suggest the creation of "assignment areas".  A nation would have a "Strategic Reserve", and a "Border Area" for each nation on the planet.  If there are no other nations, then there is only the Strategic Reserve.  If there are five other nations, then there is the reserve and five border areas, one for each other nation.  Ground troops have to be assigned either to the reserve, a PDC (like the reserve but sheltered from orbital bombardment), or a border area.  A ground unit has to be given an order to move from one area to another, and ground units cannot move from one border area to another.  They have to go to the reserve first, then to which ever border area they are needed.  This setup simulates actual physical locations, but at a strategic level without having to worry about maps and actual locations.  A system like this also gives the player a lot of options for strategy, as real decisions need to be made between forward deployment and reserves.  Also, instead of having one large mass of troops available for defense against any enemy, a nation with multiple opponents will have to decide how to allocate its troops depending on the threat level of each nation.  Of course, units can only attack the nation "adjacent" to the border area they are assigned.  

A nation attacking another nation would only have to face the ground units actually assigned to its "border area".  Of course, both nations will be able to move units from the reserve to their threatened border, but if one surprises the other it could possibly destroy most of the defending units in the border area and do some damage to the defending nation before it can move units into the threatened area.  

Along these same lines I'd like to suggest adding the ability to give units different orders.  Implicit in the suggestion above are movement orders, but I'd like to see different combat orders as well.   The type of orders a unit can use would be dependent on the type of unit.  The following are the ones I can come up with off of the top of my head:

1.  Entrenched defense (Infantry only, adds to defense strength)
2.  Anti-partisan (garrison and infantry, adds to police value, reduces attack value)
3.  All out assault (all except garrison, requires morale of +80, adds to offensive strength, reduces defense strength)
4.  Penetration Assault (Armor only, requires morale of +80, reduces morale rendering a unit incapable of attacking)

All units with no orders are considered to be "Defending" with no stat adjustments.  There more commands, I know, but that is all I can think of for now.  

An ambitious change, I know, but something along these lines would add a lot.  

Kurt

[welchbloke]

I like this suggestion but I guess the coding changes would be significant.  If this change did go through, can I suggest that there should be some kind of intelligence to suggest if additional units move into an adjacent border area?  I would have thought that the movement of large bodies of troops would attract some attention and might concern the nation that suddenly has several corps of troops arrive on its border  

Welchbloke

[Shinanygnz]

What about installations?  Are they going in the strategic reserve area, randomly to different areas or assumed equally spread?  Just one area for an wholly owned planet is going to make an assault very hard.  Why should these areas go away when there's noone to occupy them then reappear if someone invades?

However, I do like the concept a lot and I think Steve should expand on it and go ahead and add ground locations to planets based on size.  Start with 1 on a comet/asteroid then more based on surface area.  Pick the number carefully (or make it user configurable) so you can have the multi-race to a planet start, with each owning x bits of y total.  Ground units are then in a set place, with a movement speed.  Installations could even be randomly set in a location and you might be able to pick off an enemy's shipyard or main mining site.
No need to mess around with terrain types IMO though.

You could add "drop infantry" (or armour, we're talking TNE after all) to allow you to attack an area from troop ships in orbit, i.e. without having to land them with ships and those then being put at risk.

Would certainly make ground assaults more interesting and fun, e.g. you hit an area and the defenders move their reserve over to attack it, then you drop your real attack the other side of the planet, only to find a hidden PDC or two full of more defenders you were previously unaware of.
Seeing as we have individual ship armour block records, I don't see a sensibly sized planetary "map" as a massive administrative or record keeping burden and it's not something we'll need to use all the time.

Btw Steve, can we have an upgrade or scrap task for Low Tech units please?

Stephen

[James Patten]

Btw Steve, can we have an upgrade or scrap task for Low Tech units please?

I agree to the upgrade (we can already scrap them).  I hate that I cannot upgrade the 101st Airborne or 10th Mountain Divisions.

[IanD]

adradjool wrote

The U.S. Navy tries to do as much repairs outside of drydocks as possible... too much $$$ involved. It may come down to allowing the MF to handle the repairs, and allowing the shipyard to do the repairs, and letting the player decide what level of damage a shipyard is required

Should there be a Fleet base installation?

A Fleet Base could produce some maintenance supplies, perhaps equivalent to 5-10 maintenance facilities, but could also allow overhauls and minor refits (e.g. those for which a shipyard does not have to retool for, but perhaps take a little longer than a shipyard). A Fleet Base could repair some damage, say up to a third of the ship, or only internal systems and up to half the engines, and again possibly take longer than a shipyard. It would only be transportable as prefabricated modules and once constructed would not be moveable. It would require an indigenous population. But it would allow the creation of a network of distant fleet bases, without having to construct shipyards in those distant systems, which some political systems might like. It would also emulate the naval bases the British Empire scattered across the globe and it would look good to see your network of bases on the Galactic display.

Regards
IanD

[Steve Walmsley]

Steve -

Recent events in my campaign have had me considering the repair situation in Aurora.  Now, I admit that maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it seems to me that repairs are problematic.  After all, damaged ships have to sit at the planet with the shipyards, waiting for a slipway at a shipyard of the proper size to clear before it can be repaired.  This may take years if it is a larger ship, as pausing construction on a new ship just stops construction, it doesn't make that slipway available for use for repairs or anything else.  That means that your only choice is to cancel construction or wait for the new ship to be launched.  

Don't forget that ships can repair themselves with access to sufficient maintenance supplies. Set up your damage control queue and when you (frequently) run out of supplies, load some more from the planet below. This is obviously a lot easier at a planet with maintenance supplies or else you wil run out very quickly.

That got me to thinking about possible alternatives, and several come to mind.  First off, how about specialized slipways just for repair.  They would have the same capacity limitations as regular slipways, but wouldn't be specialized for a single class, and would only be able to do repairs (or maybe refits as well).  They would be much cheaper than regular slipways, because they are less useful.  A government might not have any of these during peace, but during war they would be very useful to have, as damaged ships wouldn't be clogging up the yards.  Another possibility is a repair module, that would use maintenance supplies to repair battle damage.  

I do intend to create a repair module at some point, or maybe just allow one ship to use its damage control to repair another ship. A ship with a high damage control rating and a lot of maintenance supplies will do the job very quickly (probably too quickly )

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

Steve,ur "game" are far from "simplicistic" right?...so..
whynot setup an "hard realistic" option: FOG real map..

i mean: when u enter in another system u dont know anything,u not know every planet position..and final u NOT know HOW many planet are in a system.
In a "fog" situation u MUST setup a real survey mission,visual distance for "spotting" a planet or have a right "sensor for "ping" on a map,with a "?" dot on map..

hope u have understand whatever am mean..
Are more "thrilling" enter in a system REAL unknow.
Do u remember Megatraveller yeah? an Squadroon need to Gas Giant or H2O for refuel..BUT..r sure u found in a system?and EXIST a planet or gas giant?
For me this "fog" are more exiting than enemy encounter...

Hope have an "options" same in a 3.3

I have considered this in the past. The main problem is performance, because I would have to create a list of all systems bodies known by each race and check that every time a list of system bodies was accessed (such as system map, galactic map, fleet window, system view window, etc). This would even add some performance lag if you were using it because for each system body I would have to check whether I needed to check or duplicate the code with the checks in. Duplicate code always leads to errors later. A secondary issue is that the events log would be filled with "planet discovered" events and my final concern is that while this would be fun at first it would eventually get tedious, especially if you have to keep sending geosurvey ships back to check out new planets. However, that doesn't mean I won't add it at some point as an optional rule. I think it would add an extra dimension for those players who wanted that level of detail.

Steve

[Brian Neumann]

I do intend to create a repair module at some point, or maybe just allow one ship to use its damage control to repair another ship. A ship with a high damage control rating and a lot of maintenance supplies will do the job very quickly (probably too quickly )

Steve

How about averaging the damage control of the repair ship with the damaged ship.  This would keep it from reparing things to fast.  Also have it use twice the maintenance (one for each ship) to simulate the expense involved.

Brian