Aurora 4x

Other Games => Beyond the Stars! => Topic started by: Þórgrímr on March 07, 2008, 11:28:16 AM

Title: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on March 07, 2008, 11:28:16 AM
The two examples of the different types of powers that can be designed have been posted for commentary and questions. They represent just how customizible The Stars Beckon! is as a game system and are not all encompassing in their design. Much much more can be done with these rules. Hopefully some of you bright folks here will take on the task and help me polish this gem in the rough.  :D
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Post by: Erik Luken on March 07, 2008, 02:27:39 PM
Looks good. Though you might want to number the rules posts so a person has an idea on the order ;)
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 07, 2008, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Looks good. Though you might want to number the rules posts so a person has an idea on the order :evil:  Yeah that was the intention. As for now the index should suffice. Once the rules get into a more finalised form I will number them. I will get them into order though. The topmost should be the beginning when I get them arranged.  :D
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 08, 2008, 10:18:24 AM
I eagerly await any input from the fine folks here. Oh, also, if you folks know of anyone who may be interested in participating in this endeavor, please direct them to this forum and board.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Erik Luken on March 08, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Looks good. Though you might want to number the rules posts so a person has an idea on the order :evil:  Yeah that was the intention. As for now the index should suffice. Once the rules get into a more finalised form I will number them. I will get them into order though. The topmost should be the beginning when I get them arranged.  :D


According to the host, the email bounces should cease. Though to be honest, I've not seen any new ones since they said it was fixed.
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 08, 2008, 07:21:15 PM
Damn, did not get a notice for this post. Just noticed it. Bummin! :D
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 27, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
I have not done much with the rules lately due to my sudden illness, but have no fear, I have been writing down some ideas I have had while setting in bed. :wink:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Steve Walmsley on March 28, 2008, 08:19:18 AM
Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
I have not done much with the rules lately due to my sudden illness, but have no fear, I have been writing down some ideas I have had while setting in bed. :wink:

Perhaps the problem that you might be running into is the lack of a frame of reference for the rules. Aurora doesn't have the detailed rules you have laid out but you can see the program and work out most of what it is supposed to do. Games like Advanced Squad Leader or Star Fleet Battles have massive amounts of rules but they also have huge amounts of background material in the form of WWII and Star Trek. They also have maps, counters and, in the latter case, ship diagrams. With Starfire, there is a lot of David Weber and player fiction to get you interested.

Most people won't read a long ruleset with no frame of reference to see if the rules are interesting. You need to get them interested enough to read the rules in the first place.

Steve
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 28, 2008, 08:38:26 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Perhaps the problem that you might be running into is the lack of a frame of reference for the rules. Aurora doesn't have the detailed rules you have laid out but you can see the program and work out most of what it is supposed to do. Games like Advanced Squad Leader or Star Fleet Battles have massive amounts of rules but they also have huge amounts of background material in the form of WWII and Star Trek. They also have maps, counters and, in the latter case, ship diagrams. With Starfire, there is a lot of David Weber and player fiction to get you interested.

Most people won't read a long ruleset with no frame of reference to see if the rules are interesting. You need to get them interested enough to read the rules in the first place.

Steve


Steve, thanks for the feedback, it helps.  :D

I have been working on a background for the basic 'verse for The Stars Beckon! and if you want to see what I have just give a shout and I will post it here.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 28, 2008, 08:59:50 AM
I posted the map for basic The Stars Beckon!



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on March 28, 2008, 01:38:00 PM
I would be very interested in your background ideas and would even like to see a campaign fiction post with the background game mechanics posted thereafter.

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These rules are more for playing in whatever sci fi universe you wish without needing to have to change the ruleset everytime you wish to play a different 'verse.

The plan was to have a basic 'verse, and then through subsequent releases add new 'verses with specialized rules, ads, disads, a specific map and units pre-designed for the player to use, or they still would have the option to create their own units.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr[/quote]
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 28, 2008, 05:12:35 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I would be very interested in your background ideas and would even like to see a campaign fiction post with the background game mechanics posted thereafter.


I posted the basic TSB! background, or what I have so far.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on March 28, 2008, 09:46:55 PM
Could I have an example turn showing how  the rules play out? An example of resource management, research aloocation, and maybe a combat? This makes it easier for us slow of mind people to grasp how the rules interrelate.
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Post by: Haegan2005 on March 28, 2008, 10:05:33 PM
I am slowly figuring out how to make a nation. I came across your overpopulation rules. Aren't the carrots supposed to be facing the other way? Shouldn't it be "greater then"?


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The Population Limit of a Terrain region is the maximum number of population units that can be there without penalties in a given region. As the region goes past this it begins to suffer from Overcrowding. The calculation for this is below:
Population < Limit: Overcrowding 0
Population < Limit x 1.5: Overcrowding 1
Population < Limit x 2: Overcrowding 2
Population < Limit x 3: Overcrowding 3
Etc.
Having any sort of Overcrowding negatively affects such things as population upkeep, resistance to diseases, housing costs, etc.
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 28, 2008, 10:53:19 PM
Haegan2005, ok I see what you mean, and sure, let me draw one up for you.  :oops:  This is why I need folks to help, if nothing else than to catch mistakes like that.  :D

Good catch!

EDIT: Any questions you have do not hesitate to ask. Always glad to answer q's.

 

Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on March 29, 2008, 09:51:51 AM
Posted a trun progression outline along with some examples of play.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 20, 2008, 02:52:28 PM
I know there is not much interest in this project, but I thought I would mention, I have taken Steve's advice and begun a massive rewrite of the rules. Hopefully they will then be a bit easier to understand.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Erik Luken on April 21, 2008, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
I know there is not much interest in this project, but I thought I would mention, I have taken Steve's advice and begun a massive rewrite of the rules. Hopefully they will then be a bit easier to understand.  :)
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 21, 2008, 05:13:09 PM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
One thing I've always done with any rules I've written, is give them to a non-gaming friend. See what doesn't make sense to them. If a rule section makes sense to you, but no one else, it needs a re-write :D

So far so good. My friend likes the changes I have made so far.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 21, 2008, 09:26:14 PM
I apologize. I have had little down time recently and when I do, I want to play something I already have partially figured out. Yah Civ IV!  I do like the idea behind the game and have noted that your rules are very similar to a GURPS setup. You can play anything. Please keep up the good work and I will have time in several weeks to truly pay attention to what you have and then I shall be asking questions.
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 21, 2008, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I apologize. I have had little down time recently and when I do, I want to play something I already have partially figured out. Yah Civ IV!  I do like the idea behind the game and have noted that your rules are very similar to a GURPS setup. You can play anything. Please keep up the good work and I will have time in several weeks to truly pay attention to what you have and then I shall be asking questions.


No need for apologies my friend. The rules were very obtuse and hard to understand due to their poor organization and holes you could drive a starship through.  :wink:  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 22, 2008, 05:03:21 PM
Posted the new introduction and the game maps sections. Feedback on the new schema would be greatly appreciated.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 22, 2008, 07:43:36 PM
The new intro is cleaner and better organized. I will have to get back to you on the maps.
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 23, 2008, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
The new intro is cleaner and better organized. I will have to get back to you on the maps.


Thanks for the input my friend. I look forward to more.  :D

Added first half of the new Pre-Game Setup rules to replace the old Create a nation and Mega-Corps rules. Will post the Mega-Corps rules tomorrow.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 24, 2008, 12:49:57 PM
Added the new National Customization and Mega-Corps Rules.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 25, 2008, 05:53:35 PM
Added the new Movement rules.
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 25, 2008, 06:17:23 PM
I was looking at the map setup and didn't see a roll up for random maps. When I looked at the pregame setup(had to stop due to dinnet)  I saw that the terrain was purchased? Maybe I missed something.

also:
 Under pregame setup:


Quote
                 Biology/Organics 4 or lower 25 SPs
                  Biology/Organics 5 or higher 50 SPs
                  Bio-Tech species 75 SPs


or lower & or higher means bio/organic tech level? What is a bioorganic tech level? Is there a sample chart?
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 25, 2008, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I was looking at the map setup and didn't see a roll up for random maps. When I looked at the pregame setup(had to stop due to dinnet)  I saw that the terrain was purchased? Maybe I missed something.

also:
 Under pregame setup:


Quote
                 Biology/Organics 4 or lower 25 SPs
                  Biology/Organics 5 or higher 50 SPs
                  Bio-Tech species 75 SPs

or lower & or higher means tech level? Or is that meant to be a difficulty level?


In the basic BTS! 'verse the map is already created. There is a map generator I found on the net that I am going to make some random maps with. Then there will be some maps made for specific Sci Fi 'verses that supplements will be based on. Then when I get the funds I am going to have someone create a small program to create maps for BTS. That way I can give it out with the rules and not worry about someone getting angry over my distrubution of their map generator.  :D

In the Nation creation rules you decide your tech levels in the various technologies. Biology/Organics are one of those. So if you decide on a Bio/Org level of 4 or lower you get the 25 SPs to use. 5 or higher you get the 50 SPs. Then if you commit to a Bio-Tech using race (which is expensive) then you get the 75 SPs to spend.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 25, 2008, 07:52:23 PM
OK, I have a planet generated.

Homeworld 75555

Now I see the Albion planet in your example.

Quote
Earth - Ring 3 Segment 9 Planetary Data 557553P


There is an extra number and a P on it. I only found 5 stats, not six. I assume the P means planet?

I am still looking at Pregame setup.
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 25, 2008, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
OK, I have a planet generated.

Homeworld 75555

Now I see the Albion planet in your example.

Quote
Earth - Ring 3 Segment 9 Planetary Data 557553P

There is an extra number and a P on it. I only found 5 stats, not six. I assume the P means planet?

I am still looking at Pregame setup.

The last number is the following:

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The Planetary Surface Area refers to the percentage of the planets surface that is usable by the colonizing power and can range from 0 to 9 with a T meaning 100 percent is usable.


On a species Homeworld it is the difference between it and water coverage on the planet. for a colony it will be modified by the other stats as well. Usually the Colonization cost is a pretty good indicator of how much surface area is usable. the higher it is, the less the colonizing species can use.

For example, Earth has a 7 in its water coverage so the surface area is 3.

Your planet would have a surface area number of 5.

Yes, the P stands for Planetary Data.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 25, 2008, 09:07:25 PM
Now I haven't gone back and spent my remaining SP or NP, but that will happen tomarrow. Any ideas?

Race Creation (space going telepaths)

Homeworld 755555P

Large Homeworld(7) - 1sp
Normal Conditions for atmosphere(5) - 0sp
Normal water coverage(5) - 0sp
Normal temp (5) - 0sp
Living planet tectonics(5) - 0sp
Water 50% coverage(5)- 0sp

Biology/Physiology
Dextro amino acid biology, Standard earthlike DNA - 0sp
Psionic ability
   Reading (mind-reading) - 10sp
   Dancing (defense bonus through spatial awareness) - 10sp
Humanoid (human-like) - 0sp
Omnivore - 0sp

29sp left over



The Empire of Numeria 825 pts to spend

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts

35 pts spent

Technological          Mechanological
Biology   500       Organic      500
Chemistry   500       Explosive    500
Engineering   500       Metallic       500
Physics/Mathematics 500    ?thernautics  500
Psychology   500      Psykological   500

500 pts    spent         

population: 200 million ? 200pts


90 pts left
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 25, 2008, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Now I haven't gone back and spent my remaining SP or NP, but that will happen tomarrow. Any ideas?

Race Creation (space going telepaths)

Homeworld 755555P

Large Homeworld(7) - 1sp
Normal Conditions for atmosphere(5) - 0sp
Normal water coverage(5) - 0sp
Normal temp (5) - 0sp
Living planet tectonics(5) - 0sp
Water 50% coverage(5)- 0sp

Biology/Physiology
Dextro amino acid biology, Standard earthlike DNA - 0sp
Psionic ability
   Reading (mind-reading) - 10sp
   Dancing (defense bonus through spatial awareness) - 10sp
Humanoid (human-like) - 0sp
Omnivore - 0sp

29sp left over



The Empire of Numeria 825 pts to spend

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts

35 pts spent

Technological          Mechanological
Biology   500       Organic      500
Chemistry   500       Explosive    500
Engineering   500       Metallic       500
Physics/Mathematics 500    ?thernautics  500
Psychology   500      Psykological   500

500 pts    spent         

population: 200 million ? 200pts


90 pts left


First off I would suggest taking Extra Durability 2SP, Increased Strength 1SP, and Natural Armor to reflect your Hi-G Homeworld.

Then I would recommend you cut back on your tech spending and take a Disad or two. Otherwise you won't have squat for Infrastructure or military.  :wink:  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 25, 2008, 10:53:05 PM
I wanted spaceships so Aether seemed a good idea for hyper engines, and the others seemed to be needed for capable spaceships. Psych, I don't remember(need to look it up), but it may not be needed. I hadn't planned on any opponents at first, so would have time to build a fleet. Organics could be dropped since I don't plan on sending giant insects and ferrets after my enemies. About how many points should I have for a balanced infrastructure? Alos should I have untapped fuel reserves? It seems that that would be advantages for the future.

Quote
First off I would suggest taking Extra Durability 2SP, Increased Strength 1SP, and Natural Armor to reflect your Hi-G Homeworld.

Then I would recommend you cut back on your tech spending and take a Disad or two. Otherwise you won't have squat for Infrastructure or military.  :wink:  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr


I also noted that the mech requires tech five levels above it in order to have it. Or did I misunderstand your Albion example in pregame setup?
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 25, 2008, 11:56:59 PM
I rethought the design after your comments. I have not yet started the terrain purchase process. How many terrains on a size six planet? Or is it as many as you want? Maybe I should finish reading the Terrain section before asking questions?

Race Creation (space going telepaths)

Homeworld 655555P

Above average worlds(6) - 0sp
Normal Conditions for atmosphere(5) - 0sp
Normal water coverage(5) - 0sp
Normal temp (5) - 0sp
Living planet tectonics(5) - 0sp
50% water (5) - 0s[

Biology/Physiology
Dextro amino acid biology, Standard earthlike DNA - 0sp
Psionic ability
   Reading (mind-reading) - 10sp
   Dancing (defense bonus through spatial awareness) - 10sp
   Calling (interstellar psionic communication) - 5sp
Humanoid (human-like) - 0sp
Omnivore - 0sp
Natural scientists - 10sp +2 to graded scientist skill rolls
Extra Agility - 5sp grants a slot-free cost-free agility cap for infantry and fighters only.
Cultural optimism - 10sp  -10% to pop upkeep
Prime directive (+2 SP) cannot have relations with non-space-faring cultures

2sp left over so will spend them on a 10 region survey.



The Empire of Numaria - 825 pts to spend

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large Population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts

35 NP pts spent

Technological          Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry     600       Explosive      100
Engineering     600       Metallic       100
Physics/Math      700           ?thernautics   200
Psychology     600      Psykological   100

350 NP pts   spent         

Population: 150 million ? cost NP 150pts
Housing(infrastructure): 155 million - cost NP 155pts
Industry Production Bonus: 77.5 (infrastructure/2) paid through Infrastructe cost.
Draft pool: 15 million   (10% of pop.)


135 NP pts left

Terrain Points: 60 TP (2TP per 5pt of housed pop.)
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Post by: Haegan2005 on April 26, 2008, 01:00:22 AM
Did I miss the calc for the number of regions on a planet? I read down to space regions and didn't find it.
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 26, 2008, 01:08:42 AM
On a size 6 homeworld with 50% water there are 1009 potential regions. Now mind you a LOT of them will be desert, polar and such. This is just the raw amount allowed.

No, the calc is on a spreadsheet I use to calculate the regional total.

No, keep asking questions. It keeps me on my toes.  :D



Cheers,  ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 26, 2008, 09:28:40 AM
posted the new Unit Endurance & Maintenance rules.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 27, 2008, 10:06:09 AM
Added the new Resources & Economics rules.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 28, 2008, 09:25:27 AM
Added the Infrastructure Construction Rules.

Going over the infra rules I noticed I need to seriously update my Nation Creation example by including the New Infra, Food and Energy, and the new Facility rules. I will update that document when I have finished posting the re-written ruleset.  :shock:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 29, 2008, 12:27:39 PM
Added the naval Construction Rules. They look hefty but the majority is the added and reduceds caps that can be added to a design. I will reorder the different sections when I get all the new rules added.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on April 30, 2008, 12:10:15 PM
Added the Fortification & Facility Construction rules.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on May 01, 2008, 09:28:41 AM
Added the Construction of Ground Forces rules.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on May 03, 2008, 04:05:16 PM
Added the Construction of Air Forces rules.

All the construction rules have been posted. So if you folks would care to give them a try and give feedback I would appreciate it.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on May 18, 2008, 08:56:01 PM
Added the Colonization and Terraforming rules.  :D
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Post by: Þórgrímr on May 19, 2008, 05:56:14 PM
@Erik and Haegan 2005, you gents still interested in testing?



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on May 19, 2008, 10:01:50 PM
yes. The idea is fascinating. I was trying to make the race in order of the rules, but ran into a wall on making the terrain and planetary stuff. It has been a little busy...

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
@Erik and Haegan 2005, you gents still interested in testing?



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on May 19, 2008, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
yes. The idea is fascinating. I was trying to make the race in order of the rules, but ran into a wall on making the terrain and planetary stuff. It has been a little busy...


Lol, I completely understand about busy.  :D

I can write the rules, but without playtesters I cannot fix the holes and polish them up to a fine sheen.  :lol:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on May 19, 2008, 10:48:23 PM
Right. Assuming I remember correctly, the next step is terrain creation for my nation. The race and pop are created. What is next?


Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
yes. The idea is fascinating. I was trying to make the race in order of the rules, but ran into a wall on making the terrain and planetary stuff. It has been a little busy...

Lol, I completely understand about busy.  :D

I can write the rules, but without playtesters I cannot fix the holes and polish them up to a fine sheen.  :lol:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Þórgrímr on May 19, 2008, 10:55:43 PM
Do you have your ads and disads picked out? These are the way to define your power along with gving you some extra NPs - in the case of disads - to play with.

Then after that would be creating the terrain of your nation.

Oh BTW, I have decided to change the formula for determining the number of regions on a system body. I have come to the conclusion as it stands there are far too many potential regions on a planet. For example, in the current formula Earth can have over 1100 regions! And that is after a 72% reduction of the planetary surface due to water coverage.  :shock:

I am still going to use the formula for calculating the surface of a sphere, I just need to come up with a new divisor in the formula.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
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Post by: Haegan2005 on May 19, 2008, 11:02:02 PM
yes, that would be a speadsheet in and of itself and would easily become unmanagable for an empire that covers just one world, never mind several.

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Do you have your ads and disads picked out? These are the way to define your power along with gving you some extra NPs - in the case of disads - to play with.

Then after that would be creating the terrain of your nation.

Oh BTW, I have decided to change the formula for determining the number of regions on a system body. I have come to the conclusion as it stands there are far too many potential regions on a planet. For example, in the current formula Earth can have over 1100 regions! And that is after a 72% reduction of the planetary surface due to water coverage.  :shock:

I am still going to use the formula for calculating the surface of a sphere, I just need to come up with a new divisor in the formula.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 19, 2008, 11:05:17 PM
This is where I stopped. Ideas?

Quote
Race Creation (space going telepaths)

Homeworld 655555P

Above average worlds(6) - 0sp
Normal Conditions for atmosphere(5) - 0sp
Normal water coverage(5) - 0sp
Normal temp (5) - 0sp
Living planet tectonics(5) - 0sp
50% water (5) - 0sp

Biology/Physiology
Dextro amino acid biology, Standard earthlike DNA - 0sp
Psionic ability
   Reading (mind-reading) - 10sp
   Dancing (defense bonus through spatial awareness) - 10sp
   Calling (interstellar psionic communication) - 5sp
Humanoid (human-like) - 0sp
Omnivore - 0sp
Natural scientists - 10sp +2 to graded scientist skill rolls
Extra Agility - 5sp grants a slot-free cost-free agility cap for infantry and fighters only.
Cultural optimism - 10sp  -10% to pop upkeep
Prime directive (+2 SP) cannot have relations with non-space-faring cultures

2sp left over so will spend them on a 10 region survey.



The Empire of Numaria - 825 pts to spend

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large Population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts

35 NP pts spent

Technological       Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic          000
Chemistry             600       Explosive       100
Engineering         600       Metallic          100
Physics/Math       700                ?thernautics   200
Psychology          600      Psykological   100

350 NP pts   spent         

Population: 150 million ? cost NP 150pts
Housing(infrastructure): 155 million - cost NP 155pts
Industry Production Bonus: 77.5 (infrastructure/2) paid through Infrastructe cost.
Draft pool: 15 million   (10% of pop.)


135 NP pts left

Terrain Points: 60 TP (2TP per 5pt of housed pop.)

Namen Continent

Open Terrain
Industrial Development:    50 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       25 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        50 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    1

Ocean

Forested small continent
Industrial Development:    30 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       50 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        30 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    2

Ocean

Argyle Continent(2 terrains)

Open Terrain
Industrial Development:    50 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       25 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        50 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    1

Forested small continent
Industrial Development:    30 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       50 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        30 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    2

Ocean
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 19, 2008, 11:24:50 PM
For one, I would suggest finishing off the purchase of your inftastructure. You have no transport net, Wealth, Research, Resource Extraction, or Fuel Production.

Maybe take a couple of disads to give you more NPs to play with.

Possibly reduce the amount of population. Since with Large population your pop is 300 million, not 150. Large doubles your population points.

If you put the 100 points in metallics into Engineering and since you have Phys/Math at 700 already, you can have starships. They will be primitive chemical rocket types, but you can build them. So unless you wish to play a steampunk power you can save the points and remove them from the Mechanological categories and use them someplace else.  :D  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 19, 2008, 11:37:34 PM
I forgot to mention, at your tech level all your infrastructure will require energy. So you will need some points for energy production also.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 19, 2008, 11:40:25 PM
I thought that I needed terrain before I purchased infrastructure.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 20, 2008, 12:33:04 AM
I am reading through your pregame setup. Does each terrain type only cost one TP? Do I purchase roads and stuff for each terrain? Can I have multiple unpaved roads for each terrain? What is the advantage of having roads and railroads in a terrain?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 20, 2008, 07:49:49 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I am reading through your pregame setup. Does each terrain type only cost one TP? Do I purchase roads and stuff for each terrain? Can I have multiple unpaved roads for each terrain? What is the advantage of having roads and railroads in a terrain?


I thought you had purchased some terrain all ready, my bad, sorry about that.

Yup, each terrain type only costs 1 TP. Yes, you purchase the infrastructure for each region you wish to use. I would suggest at least one Super Region for one Open (plains) one for Difficult (Forest) and one for Very Difficult (Mountains). And then one Very Difficult (Desert). Since these will give a boost to the various vital production you will need, Plains = Food, Forest = Resource Extraction, Mountain = Resource Extraction, Desert = Solar Energy Production.

The advantage is that without the transport net, nothing gets moved except at a snails pace. Think every Cargo Point is being moved by hand cart and wheelbarrel. Then there is the Wealth bonus to.  :D

The Intro to the Transport Net Rules:

[6.4.8] Transportation Networks

One of the most important things you will need to understand is that without a transport network the raw materials will not get from the mines to the factories and the supplies to keep your war machine running will not move. So it is critical that you keep the idea of throughput in mind when planning your transport network. Throughput is simply the amount of cargo your transport network can carry over a given amount of time. For example of you have a road network with a throughput of 30,000 cargo a month, that is the absolute maximum it can handle. Any more than that and you begin to experience the bad side of a transport network, Logistics Jams. These are only a minor irritant in peacetime, but in times of war they can be downright deadly. So keep an eye on your transport network and you will be on your way to an efficient movement of goods and troops.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 20, 2008, 11:28:17 PM
I do not see energy production in the pregame setup. Did I miss it?

Also, this is an attempt to model an older society that has put much thought into the use of its land. So what are the effects of making a mountain range a super terrritory. this would include extensive terracing and even underground cities.
The same would be true of the desert. Extensive irrigation and water farming techniques may have been brought into play.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 21, 2008, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I do not see energy production in the pregame setup. Did I miss it?

Also, this is an attempt to model an older society that has put much thought into the use of its land. So what are the effects of making a mountain range a super terrritory. this would include extensive terracing and even underground cities.
The same would be true of the desert. Extensive irrigation and water farming techniques may have been brought into play.


Sorry, Energy production is in the Infrastructure Construction rules, specifically:

[7.0.6] Energy Production and Consumption

I like the idea behind that society. Making a mountain a Super terrain will cause its Resource Extraction, Population and Industry limits to triple what it normally is.

So a Super Mountain Terrain Region would give these stats:

Code: [Select]
Industrial Development:    60 Industry + Bonus
Resource Extraction:       225 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:              60 Population Units + Bonus
Defensive Value:    6


As for the desert you need Biology at tech level 8 or Organics at mech level 3 to cultivate a Desert Region. It will still remain a very difficult region but its food production modifier will increase for food production.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 09:14:02 PM
Alright, each region is one TP. A super cost 3 more or is a cost of three?

I do not see a NP cost for Energy Production?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 21, 2008, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Alright, each region is one TP. A super cost 3 more or is a cost of three?


The cost is three pus the base terrain cost. So the total would be four.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 10:13:42 PM
Darn Inflation!

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Alright, each region is one TP. A super cost 3 more or is a cost of three?

The cost is three pus the base terrain cost. So the total would be four.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 21, 2008, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Darn Inflation!


Lmao!, now thats funny.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 10:23:26 PM
I don't see a NP cost for Energy Production?
This is a rough draft for the regions setup. Let me know if I seem to have grasped the basic idea.

Terrain Points: 40 TP (2TP per 5pt of housed pop.)

14 TP left over.

Namen Continent

Open Terrain- plains 4 TP Super
Industrial Development:    150 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       75 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        150 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    3

Open Terrain - light forest and farming 4 TP Super
Industrial Development:    150 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       75 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        150 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    3

Desert 1 TP
Industrial Development:    20 Industry + Bonus
Resource Extraction:       75 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        20 Population Units + Bonus
Defensive Value:    3

Hills and rivers abutting the Sarhus mountain range to the east 4 TP Super
Industrial Development:    90 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       150 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        90 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    6

Mountains - Sarhus Mountain Range 4 TP Super
Industrial Development:    60 Industry + Bonus
Resource Extraction:       225 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        50 Population Units + Bonus
Defensive Value:    9

Forested coastal land 4 TP Super
Industrial Development:    90 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       150 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        90 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    6

Ocean

Argyle Continent(4 terrains)

Open Terrain 1 TP
Industrial Development:    50 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       25 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        50 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    1

Forested 1 TP
Industrial Development:    30 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       50 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        30 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    2

Forested 1 TP
Industrial Development:    30 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       50 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        30 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    2
Ocean

Open Terrain 1 TP
Industrial Development:    50 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Resource Extraction:       25 Mines + Bonus
Living Space:        50 Population Units + (Bonus x 2)
Defensive Value:    1

Orbital space ?

10 pts for basic lands.
16 pts to make all open lands Supers.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 10:32:35 PM
I left out the space territory.  This should model Orbital Space with one large and one small moon. I have 17 of the free space TP left over. can these be traded back into NP?

Orbital space (20 free TP from Space Dwelling)

Cost:                0 Terrain Points
Industrial Development:            0 + Bonus
Living Space:            0 + Bonus/2 (drop all fractions)
Defensive Value:        0

Cost:                1 Terrain Point  Small Moon
Industrial Development:            15 Industry + (Bonus x 2)
Living Space:            1 Population Unit + Bonus
Defensive Value:        1

Cost:                0 Terrain Points
Industrial Development:            0 + Bonus
Living Space:            0 + Bonus/2 (drop all fractions)
Defensive Value:        0

Cost:                0 Terrain Points
Industrial Development:            0 + Bonus
Living Space:            0 + Bonus/2 (drop all fractions)
Defensive Value:        0

Cost:                2 Terrain Points  Large Moon
Industrial Development:            20 Industry + (Bonus x2)
Living Space:            3 Population Unit + Bonus
Defensive Value:        2
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 10:38:43 PM
My notepad file has just hit three pages! I do have a few concerns about having enough PP for building neat spacy things and things that go vroom.
I was considering major colonies(several thousand people) on the moons. much more would be difficult to do with only chem rockets. The logistics would be enormous without something similar to a space elevator.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 21, 2008, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I don't see a NP cost for Energy Production?
This is a rough draft for the regions setup. Let me know if I seem to have grasped the basic idea.


Now this is why I need playterstes! I knew I was forgetting something! The NP cost for Energy Production items!  DOH! :oops:I will get that fixed ASAP.

Looks good, but the Intervening Ocean terrains also cost one NP each.

Yeah you can trade in the NPs at a rate of 2 TPs for 1 NP.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 11:14:38 PM
can I trade in the free space TP from Space Dwelling for NP?

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I don't see a NP cost for Energy Production?
This is a rough draft for the regions setup. Let me know if I seem to have grasped the basic idea.

Now this is why I need playterstes! I knew I was forgetting something! The NP cost for Energy Production items!  DOH! :oops:I will get that fixed ASAP.

Looks good, but the Intervening Ocean terrains also cost one NP each.

Yeah you can trade in the NPs at a rate of 2 TPs for 1 NP.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 21, 2008, 11:25:35 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
can I trade in the free space TP from Space Dwelling for NP?


No, those are coming as a result of your Space Dweller advantage. Sorry.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 21, 2008, 11:34:41 PM
Quote
The Empire of Numaria - 825 pts to spend

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large Population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts

35 NP pts spent

Technological          Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry     700       Explosive      100
Engineering     700       Metallic       000
Physics/Math      700           ?thernautics   200
Psychology     600      Psykological   100

360 NP pts   spent         

Population: 100 million ? cost NP 50pts (large pop davantage doublesit.)
Housing(infrastructure): 100 million - cost NP 100pts
Industry Production Bonus: 50% (infrastructure/2) paid through Infrastructure cost.
Draft pool: 10 million   (10% of pop.)

Industrial Production(IP): 50 (1 per NP spent) per month
Resource Extraction(RE): 50 (1 per NP spent) per month
Raw Materials(RM):250 (5x base RE stockpiled at start)
Wealth Production(WP): 50 Wealth Units (1 per NP spent)
Wealth Units: 300 WU (5x WP stockpiled at start)
Research Points(RP):35 RP per year (1 per NP spent)
Fuel Production(FP): 55 FU (1 per NP spent) per month
Fuel Units(FU): 265 FU (5x base FP stockpiled at start)

of concern is my transportation network. Do I need to spend more on it? Also, Is my energy consumed correct?
Quote
Transport Network:
    paved roads: 10 (5 NP) one for each terrain
    primitive rail: 10 (5NP) one for each terrain

Energy production: Each EP center produces 7 EN(Engineering lvl is 7)
Energy Consumed: 240
   Pop: 40 ($0% at Eng 7)
   rail roads: 10
   FP: 55
   WP: 50
   IP: 50
   RP: 35
   

25 NP pts left(12 TP left = 6 additional NP) 31 NP left
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 21, 2008, 11:52:22 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Quote
The Empire of Numaria - 825 pts to spend

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large Population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts

35 NP pts spent

Technological          Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry     700       Explosive      100
Engineering     700       Metallic       000
Physics/Math      700           ?thernautics   200
Psychology     600      Psykological   100

360 NP pts   spent         

Population: 100 million ? cost NP 50pts (large pop davantage doublesit.)
Housing(infrastructure): 100 million - cost NP 100pts
Industry Production Bonus: 50% (infrastructure/2) paid through Infrastructure cost.
Draft pool: 10 million   (10% of pop.)

Industrial Production(IP): 50 (1 per NP spent) per month
Resource Extraction(RE): 50 (1 per NP spent) per month
Raw Materials(RM):250 (5x base RE stockpiled at start)
Wealth Production(WP): 50 Wealth Units (1 per NP spent)
Wealth Units: 300 WU (5x WP stockpiled at start)
Research Points(RP):35 RP per year (1 per NP spent)
Fuel Production(FP): 55 FU (1 per NP spent) per month
Fuel Units(FU): 265 FU (5x base FP stockpiled at start)

of concern is my transportation network. Do I need to spend more on it? Also, Is my energy consumed correct?
Quote
Transport Network:
    paved roads: 10 (5 NP) one for each terrain
    primitive rail: 10 (5NP) one for each terrain

Energy production: Each EP center produces 7 EN(Engineering lvl is 7)
Energy Consumed: 240
   Pop: 40 ($0% at Eng 7)
   rail roads: 10
   FP: 55
   WP: 50
   IP: 50
   RP: 35
   

25 NP pts left(12 TP left = 6 additional NP) 31 NP left


I am still curious why you have points in mechanology?  And I would suggest a disad or two to give you more NPs to play with. Some of them aren't too bad and can give you an edge up on NPs.

Your infrastructure spending looks good. For now each Power Plant will cost 1 NP. That should get you what you need.

Your transport net is a bit thin, but is acceptable till you can build it up. During peacetime you won't have to worry so much, but if you went to war you would have problems with throughput. So stay out of any wars till you build up your transport net.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 22, 2008, 10:12:36 PM
Robotech. :D

I will look at the disadv again.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 22, 2008, 10:22:47 PM
Do you have a better description of the tech and mech then in the pregame setup? I may not need all these levels.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Robotech. :D

I will look at the disadv again.


Sorry about not replying last night, but I wasn't watching and my blood sugar got low and I went out like a light. I tell you what, this Diabetes thing suks bigtime.  :D

I am working on the re-write of the tech rules as we speak.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 09:09:14 PM
yes it bites big one. I've been a type one for ninteen years. It sounds like you are a "brittle" diabetic.

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Robotech. :D

I will look at the disadv again.

Sorry about not replying last night, but I wasn't watching and my blood sugar got low and I went out like a light. I tell you what, this Diabetes thing suks bigtime.  :D

I am working on the re-write of the tech rules as we speak.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
yes it bites big one. I've been a type one for ninteen years. It sounds like you are a "brittle" diabetic.


I don't like going off topic, but this is important to me, what is a 'Brittle' diabetic?
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 09:34:25 PM
you can always PM me. As I understand it, it is when yuor sugars drop and rise "too quickly". It makes it difficult to balnce the sugars in the 80 -150 range. I have also heard it applied to individuals who don't experience the warning signs of low or high blood sugars. The first they know of aa low blood sugar is when they pass out, but this seems to happen to people who have been diabetics for a long time. I always know when my blood sugar is low. My lips are either tingly or numb, hands shake, etc.

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
yes it bites big one. I've been a type one for ninteen years. It sounds like you are a "brittle" diabetic.

I don't like going off topic, but this is important to me, what is a 'Brittle' diabetic?
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 09:48:18 PM
http://nfb.org/legacy/vod/vsum9906.htm (http://nfb.org/legacy/vod/vsum9906.htm)

this is a good link. Talks about brittle diabetics
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 09:57:21 PM
Eng tech level? for 1 Staryard on homeworld.
Any hits or ideas for templates? Perhaps only 2 or three mil designs for ships, but a veritech fighter would be cool too.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 10:03:46 PM
on the pregame racial disadv I saw this repeated

Quote
Extra Intelligence (5 SP) Allows +20% to RPs spent on Tech Levels
Extra Intelligence (5 SP) allows +10% RP bonus to RPs spent on R&D, maximum of four levels.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 10:05:20 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Eng tech level? for 1 Staryard on homeworld.
Any hits or ideas for templates? Perhaps only 2 or three mil designs for ships, but a veritech fighter would be cool too.


Thanks for the info bud, it will definitely come in handy. And yeah my blood sugar goes up and down like a darned roller coaster.  :D

Here is an example of building a Veritech fighter.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
on the pregame raxial disadv I saw this repeated

Quote
Extra Intelligence (5 SP) Allows +20% to RPs spent on Tech Levels
Extra Intelligence (5 SP) allows +10% RP bonus to RPs spent on R&D, maximum of four levels.


Thanks for the spot, will correct it.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Extra Intelligence (5 SP) Allows +20% to RPs spent on Tech Levels
Extra Intelligence (5 SP) allows +10% RP bonus to RPs spent on R&D, maximum of four levels.


I just remembered, its not a repeat, one gives a bonus to overall tech level advancement, and one gives a boost to R&D technology projects. They affect different things.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 10:19:39 PM
About the Multi-Form. What tech do I need to develop it?Your post says Eng 8. can it be done at a lower level. Maybe be more expensive and clunky?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 10:28:27 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
About the Multi-Form. What tech do I need to develop it?Your post says Eng 8. can it be done at a lower level. Maybe be more expensive and clunky?


No, it requires a Engineering tech level 8. Can we make them now?  :wink:  Engineering level 7 is the current tech level.



Cheers,  ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 10:34:56 PM
pregame.

Quote
Example: Albion

Ken decides to purchase his terrain as follows;

LAND TERRAIN: - 10 NP (16 Free terrain from pop)
shouldn't NP be TP?

can I have a break down of the following terrain?

Quote
Super,Open | Albion | pop:8 | IU:15 | RM:5 | WU:20 | RP:25 | FU:5 | HU:8 | SRR:5, 1.5wu, -.5rm, PR:4, .8wu, UR:2, .2wu | 100 | na | hm | c | 0 | sul | (S) | Borders Frankland and Saxonia (1 NP)
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 10:40:25 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
pregame.

Quote
Example: Albion

Ken decides to purchase his terrain as follows;

LAND TERRAIN: - 10 NP (16 Free terrain from pop)
shouldn't NP be TP?

can I have a break down of the following terrain?

Quote
Super,Open | Albion | pop:8 | IU:15 | RM:5 | WU:20 | RP:25 | FU:5 | HU:8 | SRR:5, 1.5wu, -.5rm, PR:4, .8wu, UR:2, .2wu | 100 | na | hm | c | 0 | sul | (S) | Borders Frankland and Saxonia (1 NP)


No, I sepnt more than what I got for free, so it cost 10 extra NPs.

Sure, here they are:

[2.41] Regional Types

Below is a list of all of the regional statistics. The general format is as follows, reading from left to right:
Region Type
Region Name
The Region's Population Value (POP)
The Region's Industry Value (IU)
The Region's Resource Value (RM)
The Region's Wealth Value (WU)
The Region's Research Point Value (RP)
The Region's Fuel Value (FU)
Regional Housing (HU)
Regional Transportation Net levels and bonus
Region Resistance Value
Years Since Conquest and if the region is Pacified
The Control Status
The Terrain Type of the region
Construction in the region (Fortifications or Facilities)
Garrisoned troops
If there is a (star)port in the region



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 10:50:30 PM
In the pregame Albion example You show his infrastructure as such:

Quote
Unpaved Roads:   40    (10 NP)
Paved Roads:                 8     (4 NP)
Primitive Railroads:         6     (3 NP)
Standard Railroads:        8     (8 NP)
Housing:                        80    (80 NP)
Industry:                       50    (50 NP)      +27 from housed Human pop
Resource Extraction:       50    (50 NP)
Wealth:                         60    (60 NP)      300 in reserve
Research:                      40    (40 NP)
Fuel:                             50    (50 NP)      12 Crystals, 238 Fuel in reserve  +13 from housed Martians
1 Liftwood Grove: Meepsoor                 +10 in storage
Raw materials:                             +385 in storage

But your upkeep is thus. He will be running a negative real quick. did I miss something? Is the upkeep yearly and wealth and such monthly?

Quote
TOTAL UPKEEP:

INDUSTRY: 100.5 (60 made)
WEALTH: 81 ( 60 made)
FUEL: 52 ( 50 made)
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
In the pregame Albion example You show his infrastructure as such:

Quote
Unpaved Roads:   40    (10 NP)
Paved Roads:                 8     (4 NP)
Primitive Railroads:         6     (3 NP)
Standard Railroads:        8     (8 NP)
Housing:                        80    (80 NP)
Industry:                       50    (50 NP)      +27 from housed Human pop
Resource Extraction:       50    (50 NP)
Wealth:                         60    (60 NP)      300 in reserve
Research:                      40    (40 NP)
Fuel:                             50    (50 NP)      12 Crystals, 238 Fuel in reserve  +13 from housed Martians
1 Liftwood Grove: Meepsoor                 +10 in storage
Raw materials:                             +385 in storage

But your upkeep is thus. He will be running a negative real quick. did I miss something? Is the upkeep yearly and wealth and such monthly?

Quote
TOTAL UPKEEP:

INDUSTRY: 100.5 (60 made)
WEALTH: 81 ( 60 made)
FUEL: 52 ( 50 made)


Upkeep in peacetime is yearly. Paid only once.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 11:08:05 PM
thank god

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
In the pregame Albion example You show his infrastructure as such:

Quote
Unpaved Roads:   40    (10 NP)
Paved Roads:                 8     (4 NP)
Primitive Railroads:         6     (3 NP)
Standard Railroads:        8     (8 NP)
Housing:                        80    (80 NP)
Industry:                       50    (50 NP)      +27 from housed Human pop
Resource Extraction:       50    (50 NP)
Wealth:                         60    (60 NP)      300 in reserve
Research:                      40    (40 NP)
Fuel:                             50    (50 NP)      12 Crystals, 238 Fuel in reserve  +13 from housed Martians
1 Liftwood Grove: Meepsoor                 +10 in storage
Raw materials:                             +385 in storage

But your upkeep is thus. He will be running a negative real quick. did I miss something? Is the upkeep yearly and wealth and such monthly?

Quote
TOTAL UPKEEP:

INDUSTRY: 100.5 (60 made)
WEALTH: 81 ( 60 made)
FUEL: 52 ( 50 made)

Upkeep in peacetime is yearly. Paid only once.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 11:15:31 PM
I want to have at least one training depot, a staryard, mech construction facilities, etc. Do they cost 1 NP each? what does the 100 in explosives do for me? bigger booms? missiles?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 23, 2008, 11:22:48 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I want to have at least one training depot, a staryard, mech construction facilities, etc. Do they cost 1 NP each? what does the 100 in explosives do for me? bigger booms? missiles?


Yes, for now they will be one each, but you start out with one Training facility, and others depending on your tech levels. So keep that in mind when you purchase the facilities.

Yup, if you combine the mechanological material explosives allow with a unit design, yuppers, bigger booms.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 23, 2008, 11:33:24 PM
With the following techs, what facilities do I get? I will look at  templates tomorrow.

Technological       Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry             700       Explosive      100
Engineering         800                     Metallic       000
Physics/Math       700                ?thernautics   000
Psychology          600      Psykological   100

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I want to have at least one training depot, a staryard, mech construction facilities, etc. Do they cost 1 NP each? what does the 100 in explosives do for me? bigger booms? missiles?

Yes, for now they will be one each, but you start out with one Training facility, and others depending on your tech levels. So keep that in mind when you purchase the facilities.

Yup, if you combine the mechanological material explosives allow with a unit design, yuppers, bigger booms.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 09:24:34 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
With the following techs, what facilities do I get? I will look at  templates tomorrow.

Technological       Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry             700       Explosive      100
Engineering         800                     Metallic       000
Physics/Math       700                ?thernautics   000
Psychology          600      Psykological   100




1 Army Command Base, 1 Fleet Command Base, 1 Air Base, 1 Star Base, 1 Shipyard, 1 Staryard (You have Space Dwellers). These Yards begin with 2 slipways with a capacity of size 4 ships (Heavy Cruiser or smaller).

For Planetary Forces 1 Training Depot, 1 Tactical Aircraft Manufactory, 1 Starfighter Manufactory (you have Space Dwellers), 1 Vehicle Manufactory, and 1 Artillery manufactory.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 06:27:37 PM
Do you have this consolidated in chart form somewhere in an appendix?

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
With the following techs, what facilities do I get? I will look at  templates tomorrow.

Technological       Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry             700       Explosive      100
Engineering         800                     Metallic       000
Physics/Math       700                ?thernautics   000
Psychology          600      Psykological   100



1 Army Command Base, 1 Fleet Command Base, 1 Air Base, 1 Star Base, 1 Shipyard, 1 Staryard (You have Space Dwellers). These Yards begin with 2 slipways with a capacity of size 4 ships (Heavy Cruiser or smaller).

For Planetary Forces 1 Training Depot, 1 Tactical Aircraft Manufactory, 1 Starfighter Manufactory (you have Space Dwellers), 1 Vehicle Manufactory, and 1 Artillery manufactory.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 06:37:58 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Do you have this consolidated in chart form somewhere in an appendix?

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
With the following techs, what facilities do I get? I will look at  templates tomorrow.

Technological       Mechanological
Biology             500      Organic        000
Chemistry             700       Explosive      100
Engineering         800                     Metallic       000
Physics/Math       700                ?thernautics   000
Psychology          600      Psykological   100



1 Army Command Base, 1 Fleet Command Base, 1 Air Base, 1 Star Base, 1 Shipyard, 1 Staryard (You have Space Dwellers). These Yards begin with 2 slipways with a capacity of size 4 ships (Heavy Cruiser or smaller).

For Planetary Forces 1 Training Depot, 1 Tactical Aircraft Manufactory, 1 Starfighter Manufactory (you have Space Dwellers), 1 Vehicle Manufactory, and 1 Artillery manufactory.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr


Doing up the Technology list right now, below is an example.  :D

But the pre-game setup lists the basic rules for what you get.

Project Name Monoplane Heavy
Tech Level Requirement Engineering 6.5
R&D Requirement Monoplane Light, 10 Aircraft Factories
Successes Required 1
Resulting Unit Type Super Dogfight, Heavy & Super Heavy Bomber, Heavy & Super Heavy Cargo. Allows production of the Strategic Aircraft Manufactory.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 07:15:56 PM
may I have mag lev railroads and other types of railroads coexist?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 07:20:16 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
may I have mag lev railroads and other types of railroads coexist?


Sure, you can have any type of RR in a region as long as the sum total of RR layers do not exceed the regional limits.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 07:26:54 PM
I am looking at railroads and how they work. In essance you gain .1 WU in a populated region, but pay .4 WU per Adv railroad in a empty region? This does not count raw materials cost.
the payment cost would count in say nevada where large portions are uninhabited.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 07:35:59 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I am looking at railroads and how they work. In essance you gain .1 WU in a populated region, but pay .4 WU per Adv railroad in a empty region? This does not count raw materials cost.
the payment cost would count in say nevada where large portions are uninhabited.


That .1 WU is per layer up to the pop count. And higher levels of RR gain a larger WU bonus. Only the UR (Unpaved Road) has the .1 WU bonus. So it is cumulative and can add up to quite a bonus. And remember you get that bonus each month while maintenance is paid only once per year.  :wink:

EDIT: Read this section for the complete skinny on Transport net bennies.

[6.4.8] Transportation Networks
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 07:48:12 PM
How many aircraft factories would I need to have researched a veritech fighter(multiform)?
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 08:07:57 PM
How do I buy them in pregame setup?

Lab Rats , good description :)  
Prospectors , figured it out
Explorers, also got it.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
How many aircraft factories would I need to have researched a veritech fighter?


If you begin a game at a certain tech level you gain all the technologies that required that overall tech level. So for example, you have an Engineering tech level of 8 so you all ready have all the technologies that require Eng 8.0 and lower. But below id the tech required for Super fighters.

Project Name Trans-Atmospheric Fighter
Tech Level Requirement Engineering 8
R&D Requirement Spaceplane, Jet Fighter, Precision Weaponry, 15 Rocket Factories, 15 Aircraft Factories
Successes Required 5
On completing the Trans-Atmospheric Fighter project the nation can
build Super Fighter blocks.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 08:30:19 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
How do I buy them in pregame setup?

Lab Rats , good description :)  
Prospectors , figured it out
Explorers, also got it.


Lol, thanks. I am trying to keep the Mechanology stuff slightly tongue-in-cheek. As for production of the Lab Rats you can read the current Inventors and Mechanology: Inventors for that info. To the Mechanology sections only minor facelifts are required.

But the quick answer is thus: Lab Rat: 1 RP per 250. Inventors are built in the same manner as a normal Military unit, with Final Cost being determined by Block Cost, plus Added Capabilities, all multiplied by highest Mechanological Advancement Level ( FC = (BC+AC) x ML ).
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 08:41:14 PM
So I would need to start the game with 15 rocket factories and 15 aircraft facories? Are they 1 NP apiece?

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
How many aircraft factories would I need to have researched a veritech fighter?

If you begin a game at a certain tech level you gain all the technologies that required that overall tech level. So for example, you have an Engineering tech level of 8 so you all ready have all the technologies that require Eng 8.0 and lower. But below id the tech required for Super fighters.

Project Name Trans-Atmospheric Fighter
Tech Level Requirement Engineering 8
R&D Requirement Spaceplane, Jet Fighter, Precision Weaponry, 15 Rocket Factories, 15 Aircraft Factories
Successes Required 5
On completing the Trans-Atmospheric Fighter project the nation can
build Super Fighter blocks.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 08:43:02 PM
I am curious about combat. May we have some examples for both simple and complex units?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 08:52:33 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
So I would need to start the game with 15 rocket factories and 15 aircraft facories? Are they 1 NP apiece?

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
How many aircraft factories would I need to have researched a veritech fighter?

If you begin a game at a certain tech level you gain all the technologies that required that overall tech level. So for example, you have an Engineering tech level of 8 so you all ready have all the technologies that require Eng 8.0 and lower. But below id the tech required for Super fighters.

Project Name Trans-Atmospheric Fighter
Tech Level Requirement Engineering 8
R&D Requirement Spaceplane, Jet Fighter, Precision Weaponry, 15 Rocket Factories, 15 Aircraft Factories
Successes Required 5
On completing the Trans-Atmospheric Fighter project the nation can
build Super Fighter blocks.


No, you all ready know how to build Super Fighters at the beginning. So all you need is the Manufactories for production. And yes for game setup all production Facilities are 1 NP.

As for combat sure, let me draw up some examples.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 08:55:53 PM
I am thinking about a very high tech ground force with some specialized vehicles like APC's with serious gatling heavy machine guns(anti inf and small builidng :wink:

Given this thought line, what caps would you recommend? I think I have a limit of four caps plus at least one external.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility,

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon


Also, can a vehicle manufactory produce humanoid mechs? I am thinking about the excaliber in robotech or the gladiator for that matter. There are equiv. in battletech but i can't remember their name. The excaliber has two PBC for arms and a small rocket payload. The Gladiator is optimized for close melee and machine gun fire, It also carries a grenade launcher, flame thrower and probably other booms that I don't remember.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 09:03:43 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I am thinking about a very high tech ground force with some specialized vehicles like APC's with serious gatling heavy machine guns(anti inf and small builidng :wink:

Given this thought line, what caps would you recommend? I think I have a limit of four caps plus at least one external.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility,

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon


Those look pretty good, but my own preference is to max out my Cap limits. This makes my stuff more expensive, but in combat can usually kick the snot out of any lesser capable force under 3 or 4 to one ratio.

So my personal way would be to add +1 Shileds to the inf, you are after all eng tech level 8. But that will add a fuel upkeep to them, So your call. For the Inf Carriers I would recommend a layer of armor, same with the MBTs. Then maybe fast Tracking for the Inf Carriers to give them the increased chance of a first strike.

Now if you add these caps be advised it is gonna kick the cost up bigtome, but to me quality is always preferable to quantity.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 24, 2008, 10:24:08 PM
Why no arms or legs caps?

Quote
There are two versions of the Multi-Form; one with added maneuverability as a fighter and one with superior melee ability as a humanoid. Terra decides to order the melee option (+2 wu and +1pp). At 5 points and tech level 8, a mere 5 of these craft will cost 60 wu and 40 pp. Not having integral rocket boosters with them, Terra also purchases some from Weyland-Yutani so the Multi-Forms can fly from the planet up into space, the basic Type are 15 wu and 1 pp per 50, modified by Advancement level of 8 for fusion thrusters, paying 3 wu and 0.8 pp for 5. All of course before Weyland-Yutani suitably marks up it?s prices for export...

Starkiller Aero-Space Fighter
60wu/40pp/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Multi-Role +1 Weapons +1 Melee Weapons (Force Sword)
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 24, 2008, 10:36:29 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Why no arms or legs caps?

Quote
There are two versions of the Multi-Form; one with added maneuverability as a fighter and one with superior melee ability as a humanoid. Terra decides to order the melee option (+2 wu and +1pp). At 5 points and tech level 8, a mere 5 of these craft will cost 60 wu and 40 pp. Not having integral rocket boosters with them, Terra also purchases some from Weyland-Yutani so the Multi-Forms can fly from the planet up into space, the basic Type are 15 wu and 1 pp per 50, modified by Advancement level of 8 for fusion thrusters, paying 3 wu and 0.8 pp for 5. All of course before Weyland-Yutani suitably marks up it?s prices for export...

Starkiller Aero-Space Fighter
60wu/40pp/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Multi-Role +1 Weapons +1 Melee Weapons (Force Sword)


Actually, there are those caps.  They are found in the Complex Air added Caps. :wink:

+1 Legs:
The Legs Added Capability allows an aircraft to function as a Humanoid Vehicle when necessary, allowing it to move on the ground in places where flying is impossible, and increasing its agility as the legs appendages can also be used as powerful vectored thrust nozzles or the like. Legs also allows a unit to load heavier armor, and an Aircraft with this Added Capability suffers no Agility or Upkeep penalty for its first Armor Added Capability. When applied to aircraft Legs is often thought of as a form of transformation, like the gerwalk ability of Macross Veritechs. Legs can be taken only once and incurs no additional Upkeep.

+X Arms:
The Arms Added Capability gives a unit extra motivators with which to carry and manipulate things. Each +1 Arms allows a unit to carry one extra External Added Capability. Arms can be considered extra hardpoints for the less Macross-inclined, but it can also be considered a component of transformation, allowing Macross Batteloids and the like. This Added Capability also slightly enhances a unit's ability in Close Combat. Arms may be taken multiple times, and does not incur any extra Upkeep no matter how many times it is taken.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 25, 2008, 10:39:14 AM
Quote
Actually, there are those caps. They are found in the Complex Air added Caps.
 

I'm sorry. It was late at night when I was posting so I didn't say this right at all. Why did the example have no arms or legs? Also, do you select caps for each form?

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
A Super Fighter is a fighter aircraft of near unbelievable abilities, greatly outperforming lesser aircraft in all areas. Hideously expensive modern planes like the F-22, and Macross Veritechs fall into this category. At 2 Deck Points a pop Super Fighters take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
The Legs Added Capability allows an aircraft to function as a Humanoid Vehicle when necessary, allowing it to move on the ground in places where flying is impossible, and increasing its agility as the legs appendages can also be used as powerful vectored thrust nozzles or the like. Legs also allows a unit to load heavier armor, and an Aircraft with this Added Capability suffers no Agility or Upkeep penalty for its first Armor Added Capability. When applied to aircraft Legs is often thought of as a form of transformation, like the gerwalk ability of Macross Veritechs. Legs can be taken only once and incurs no additional Upkeep.

+1 Arms:
The Arms Added Capability gives a unit extra motivators with which to carry and manipulate things. Each +1 Arms allows a unit to carry one extra External Added Capability. Arms can be considered extra hardpoints for the less Macross-inclined, but it can also be considered a component of transformation, allowing Macross Batteloids and the like. This Added Capability also slightly enhances a unit's ability in Close Combat. Arms may be taken multiple times, and does not incur any extra Upkeep no matter how many times it is taken.

+1 All Weather Training:
Planets are often covered in varying and difficult, even dangerous, environments. These environments can severely limit the ability of planes to operate. While all complex aircraft are assumed to have a standard instrument suite for all-weather flying, this training makes them far more proficient at it, particularly in the more extreme climates, though it does not remove all the minuses of the worst environments. All Weather Training may only be taken once, incurs no extra Upkeep, and is normally a Slot Free Added Capability. If taken as an external this Added Capability is considered All Weather Equipment and is not Slot Free, taking up one external slot, and costing the usual External Upkeep. It otherwise functions exactly the same as All Weather Training.

Now I need an external. can I get a trans atmospheric booster or long range weapons? or even purchase "slip" on packages that can be changed out when needed? So I can boost the fighters to my space base and then strap on a long range missile pack?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 25, 2008, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I'm sorry. It was late at night when I was posting so I didn't say this right at all. Why did the example have no arms or legs? Also, do you select caps for each form?

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
A Super Fighter is a fighter aircraft of near unbelievable abilities, greatly outperforming lesser aircraft in all areas. Hideously expensive modern planes like the F-22, and Macross Veritechs fall into this category. At 2 Deck Points a pop Super Fighters take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
The Legs Added Capability allows an aircraft to function as a Humanoid Vehicle when necessary, allowing it to move on the ground in places where flying is impossible, and increasing its agility as the legs appendages can also be used as powerful vectored thrust nozzles or the like. Legs also allows a unit to load heavier armor, and an Aircraft with this Added Capability suffers no Agility or Upkeep penalty for its first Armor Added Capability. When applied to aircraft Legs is often thought of as a form of transformation, like the gerwalk ability of Macross Veritechs. Legs can be taken only once and incurs no additional Upkeep.

+1 Arms:
The Arms Added Capability gives a unit extra motivators with which to carry and manipulate things. Each +1 Arms allows a unit to carry one extra External Added Capability. Arms can be considered extra hardpoints for the less Macross-inclined, but it can also be considered a component of transformation, allowing Macross Batteloids and the like. This Added Capability also slightly enhances a unit's ability in Close Combat. Arms may be taken multiple times, and does not incur any extra Upkeep no matter how many times it is taken.

+1 All Weather Training:
Planets are often covered in varying and difficult, even dangerous, environments. These environments can severely limit the ability of planes to operate. While all complex aircraft are assumed to have a standard instrument suite for all-weather flying, this training makes them far more proficient at it, particularly in the more extreme climates, though it does not remove all the minuses of the worst environments. All Weather Training may only be taken once, incurs no extra Upkeep, and is normally a Slot Free Added Capability. If taken as an external this Added Capability is considered All Weather Equipment and is not Slot Free, taking up one external slot, and costing the usual External Upkeep. It otherwise functions exactly the same as All Weather Training.

Now I need an external. can I get a trans atmospheric booster or long range weapons? or even purchase "slip" on packages that can be changed out when needed? So I can boost the fighters to my space base and then strap on a long range missile pack?


Lol, my bad, the reason I never included them was... no reason. I usually do not make multi-form units so I completely spaced off those caps.  :D But, if you do have the proper manufactory in orbit, then you could do that in one month.

EDIT: Now you do realize that the cost of these monsters is 480 WUs and 48 IUUs per 5 right?  :wink:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 25, 2008, 09:48:00 PM
IUU are PP right? I still haven't spent NP on my units yet. So this would be 4.8 NP per five? And the arms would give me a total of two externals for 4 normal caps and 2 external caps?


Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Lol, my bad, the reason I never included them was... no reason. I usually do not make multi-form units so I completely spaced off those caps.  :D But, if you do have the proper manufactory in orbit, then you could do that in one month.

EDIT: Now you do realize that the cost of these monsters is 480 WUs and 48 IUUs per 5 right?  :wink:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 25, 2008, 09:59:04 PM
Quote
The Elite Infantry block has a base Production Point cost of 10 Wu and 1pp per 2000 troops, but since the player has added a +1 Weapons Cap it has a new cost of 11 WU and a PP cost of 2. So the player multiplies the PP cost (only) by his Eng Tech level used in the design, which is 6. This comes to a PP cost of 12 and 2000 from the draft pool. So he would pay 11 WUs, 12 PPs, 2000 Draft Pool and assign it to a Training Depot that had capacity remaining to construct it. The PP cost was 12 so this is also the time needed to construct the block of Elite Infantry. His Unit Control Sheet would look like the following

Elite Infantry (Guards)
11wu/12pp/Block, 2000/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 0
TL6 +1 Weapons (.303 Lee Enfield Rifles)

now a bit further down,

Quote
Terra starts with the 10,000 Skilled Infantry (25wu & 1pp). The Federation wants more than just troops with assault rifles; it?s infantry will be armed with the latest in weapons, like the OICW, and with full body armor (+2 wu & 1 pp for heavier weapons and +2 wu & 1 pp for additional armor). That?s a total of 29 wu & 3 pp. Since Terra will be using Level 7 Technology (actually Terra has a 775 in most Tech fields, but only the actual level is important here), those 3 pp are multiplied by 7 for the maximum Advancement Level, for a final cost of 29 WUs and 21 PPs.


Wouldn't the elite inf have a cost of 12 WU( 10 WU plus 2 from weapons)?

If this is the cse then the veritech should have a WU cost of 60?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 25, 2008, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
IUU are PP right? I still haven't spent NP on my units yet. So this would be 4.8 NP per five? And the arms would give me a total of two externals for 4 normal caps and 2 external caps?


For setup yes. But in game they are equal to spare parts and machinery. Everything that gets built in game outside of units, facilities and fortifications, requires IUUs. IUUs are also the stuff you maintain your military units with.  

Yup, 4.8 NPs per 5. See, your getting the hang of it.  :D

As for the cost of the Veritech Fighter its base cost is 50 WU + 10 for the Caps, and then you multiply the PP cost cost by its tech level, in this case 8. And 6 x 8 = 48 PPs for a final cost of 60 WUs, and 48 PPs. High tech is VERY expensive. But think on this, those 5 Fighters will shred almost any force of lower tech aircraft it meets, due to its Caps. As always, the player can choose quality or quantity.  :D  

EDIT: Fixed the wrong description to cost.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 25, 2008, 11:01:01 PM
I think I have been lost on this. What is the difference between a simple and complex unit? I just figured it was the diference between a lot of numbers and fewer numbers for upkeep and such. Like using having the option for a simplified economy or a complex economy. Now you have mentiond several times that these two unit types have different ranges. Hmm. Maybe I should reread ground units?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 25, 2008, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I think I have been lost on this. What is the difference between a simple and complex unit? I just figured it was the diference between a lot of numbers and fewer numbers for upkeep and such. Like using having the option for a simplified economy or a complex economy. Now you have mentiond several times that these two unit types have different ranges. Hmm. Maybe I should reread ground units?


Lol, yeah it can be a bit overwhelming at first. The difference between Simple and Complex is mainly determined by tech level. Certain Caps are only available for either Simple or Complex Tech units.

Lets take Skilled Infantry as an example. At simple tech levels they are only armed with melee weapons or extremely primitive gunpowder weapons. Then at Complex levels they are assumed to have gunpowder weapons as inherent weapons. So cost more to field.  :D



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 25, 2008, 11:21:17 PM
Haegan, I must apologize for my boneheadedness. You were correct and I was incorrect. You only multiply the PP cost by the tech level.  :oops:
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 12:19:39 AM
I DM'd for many years. I understand. I have also put together many games of my own, but none quite so elaborate as Stars Reckon!. I will put a cost to my current templates tonight.

Assuning that we want to survey the rest of the system that our planet lies within, what kind of survey ship would you recommend? I would think that it would be of cruiser size(reaction rockets take a long time to get anywhere), carry cargo, survey sensors, shields, minor weapons or landing bay for veritech, cargo shuttles or survey landers, etc.

For closer in to the home planet, maybe a DD setup along Coast Gusrd lines. minor weapons(likely energy), extra cargo space, extra fuel, no shields, extra engines for speed, sensors?

This is not yet a major space power with vast armadas hanging around. Why invest in such if there is no one else out there?

As a side note, what about reducing the pop to 80 million to free up 10 NP?

Now,

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
60 WU 48 PP(4.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

At 2 Deck Points take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
+1 Arms:
+1 All Weather Training(external, 2 more external available)

If I remember correctly, externals use additional maintenance, so would All Weather Training cost WU, IU, or FU? I would think IU...

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Haegan, I must apologize for my boneheadedness. You were correct and I was incorrect. You only multiply the PP cost by the tech level.  :oops:
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 12:21:39 AM
All units are TL8 engineering. I do not think that any of these require addional upkeep, but I wanted to make sure. I am debating adding addional cargo for the logistics vehicles.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility, +1 armor, +1 fast tracking
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility, +1 Armor, +1 fast tracking
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 armor, +1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon,
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Logistics Vehicles: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 1,000
80cc for TL 8
25 WU, 8 PP(0.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Self-Propelled Artillery: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 200
+1 mobility, +1 long range, +1 sensors(UAVs)
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 09:42:49 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I DM'd for many years. I understand. I have also put together many games of my own, but none quite so elaborate as Stars Reckon!. I will put a cost to my current templates tonight.

Assuning that we want to survey the rest of the system that our planet lies within, what kind of survey ship would you recommend? I would think that it would be of cruiser size(reaction rockets take a long time to get anywhere), carry cargo, survey sensors, shields, minor weapons or landing bay for veritech, cargo shuttles or survey landers, etc.

For closer in to the home planet, maybe a DD setup along Coast Gusrd lines. minor weapons(likely energy), extra cargo space, extra fuel, no shields, extra engines for speed, sensors?

This is not yet a major space power with vast armadas hanging around. Why invest in such if there is no one else out there?

As a side note, what about reducing the pop to 80 million to free up 10 NP?

Now,

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
60 WU 48 PP(4.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

At 2 Deck Points take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
+1 Arms:
+1 All Weather Training(external, 2 more external available)

If I remember correctly, externals use additional maintenance, so would All Weather Training cost WU, IU, or FU? I would think IU...


For the Survey Cruiser here is what I would recommend its gonna be expensive to maintain, but VERY capable in exploring the Deep Black:

Scout Class Cruiser
64wu/64pp/Iron/Block, 2/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+2
TL8 +1 Reaction Drives (Chem) +1 Shields +2 Imp. Sci. Instruments +1 Scientific AI
External Slots: +1 Sensors +1 Deck Cap (25 DPs)

For a CG-Like DD I would recommend:

Patrol Class Destroyer
60wu/48pp/Iron/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+1
TL8 +1 Reaction Drives (chem) +1 Fast Tracking +1  Low Maint. +1 Speed
External Slots: +1 Sensors

NOTE: This design does not use all of the internal slots. Since it is only a patrol ship and not designed for fleet actions I do not think the cost was worth filling all the Caps up.

Sure, 80 mil is an ok popu;lation.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 09:49:07 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
All units are TL8 engineering. I do not think that any of these require addional upkeep, but I wanted to make sure. I am debating adding addional cargo for the logistics vehicles.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility, +1 armor, +1 fast tracking
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility, +1 Armor, +1 fast tracking
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 armor, +1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon,
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Logistics Vehicles: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 1,000
80cc for TL 8
25 WU, 8 PP(0.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Self-Propelled Artillery: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 200
+1 mobility, +1 long range, +1 sensors(UAVs)
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1



Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+1

Shields cost 1 fuel, even the first Cap.

The rest are perfect my friend. Good job.  8)
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 01:23:05 PM
These cost 48 total NP for one block of each. Now, should I buy more? perhaps two more blocks of veritechs? What about bases? I have 1 Army Command Base, 1 Fleet Command Base, 1 Air Base, 1 Star Base. Do I do anything with these or are they generic?

I took the following disadv:
Nuke Free Zone + 30pts
Patent Office + 5pts

So now I have 71 NP to spend.

Freighter: 50 wu, Iron and 1 pp per 10
20,000 CC at level 8
50 WU, 8PP (0.8NP)

Destroyer: 58 WU, Iron and 40 PP(4NP) per 5
They also have hangar space for 1 DP worth of aircraft, mainly for shuttles and patrol aircraft.
+1 Anti aircraft, +1 speed, +1 armor, +1 weapons

Cruiser: 58 WU, Iron and 40 PP(4NP) per 2
+1 sensors, +1 long range weapons, +1 particle beam Heavy cannon, +1 armor,  
 

Escort Carrier: 54 WU, Iron and 24 PP(2.4NP) per 2
They have very limited weapons and defenses, and their only power is derived from the aircraft they carry. They have a Deck Capacity of 25 DP,
10,000 CC
+1 stealth, +1 speed

Freighter: 52 WU, Iron and 16 PP(1.6 NP) per 10
20,000 CC at level 8
+1 Starship Drives

Scout Class Cruiser
64wu/64pp/Iron/Block, 2/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+2
TL8 +1 Reaction Drives (Chem) +1 Shields +2 Imp. Sci. Instruments +1 Scientific AI
External Slots: +1 Sensors +1 Deck Cap (25 DPs)

Patrol Class Destroyer
60wu/48pp/Iron/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+1
TL8 +1 Reaction Drives (chem) +1 Fast Tracking +1 Low Maint. +1 Speed
External Slots: +1 Sensors

Skilled Infantry: 31 WU and 32 PP(3.2 NP) per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1 + 1

Infantry Carriers: 33 WU and 40 PP(4 NP) per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility, +1 armor, +1 fast tracking
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 33 WU and 40 PP(4 NP) per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility, +1 Armor, +1 fast tracking
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Main Battle Tanks: 33 WU and 40 PP(4 NP) per 100
+1 armor, +1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon,
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Logistics Vehicles: 25 Wu and 8 PP(0.8 NP) per 1,000
80cc for TL 8
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Self-Propelled Artillery: 31 WU and 32 PP(3.2 NP) per 200
+1 mobility, +1 long range, +1 sensors(UAVs)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
60 WU 48 PP(4.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

At 2 Deck Points take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
+1 Arms:
+1 All Weather Training(external, 2 more external available)
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 02:00:42 PM
All Military units must be based as a facility of the proper tye, Air, Army, Navy, or Star.

Here begins the rules for that:

[7.5.3.3] Naval Bases. Note, Starbases use the Naval Base Rules.

You may want a few more blocks of freighters since each point of raw Materials take up 25,000 CPs. And if you set up the convoys to move any it will take a few more CPs than what you have to move any large amount.

As for your military forces, do you expect combat real soon? You do not have any neighbors - that you know of  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 05:09:34 PM
I posted the new R&D Rules. As of now, ignore any reference to a tech project that needs to be finished to build something. The Projects are far from complete in number to get all Caps and unit types yet. So until I get them complete ignore any reference to them.  :shock:



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 05:15:50 PM
(2.41) it is just cut off. ideas?

Quote
Friendly (f)
Friendly regions are fully assimilated into your Power. You can build all kinds of National troops therein (assuming of course, that the region is within the HCR) and receive full revenue from the
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 05:20:43 PM
(9) research

your 1st table says research CP's spent. wouldn't that be RP's?
Quote
R&D Success Chance Table
CPs   % Chance      CPs % Chance    CPs  % Chance
Spent to Succeed  Spent to Succeed Spent to Succeed
25        1       850      34      2150    67
50        2       875      35      2200    68
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 05:21:32 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
(2.41) it is just cut off. ideas?


Yeah PHPBB2 has a character limit even if you set it to no limit. So that got cut off and I forgot to get it fully on the next post. Will fix it ASAP> Thansk for the spot.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 05:26:42 PM
Squashed the bugs found by Haegan2005.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 07:59:40 PM
What about EP?

Quote
[2.41] Regional Types

Below is a list of all of the regional statistics. The general format is as follows, reading from left to right:
Region Type
Region Name
The Region's Population Value (POP)
The Region's Industry Value (IU)
The Region's Resource Value (RM)
The Region's Wealth Value (WU)
The Region's Research Point Value (RP)
The Region's Fuel Value (FU)
Regional Housing (HU)
Regional Transportation Net levels and bonus
Region Resistance Value
Years Since Conquest and if the region is Pacified
The Control Status
The Terrain Type of the region
Construction in the region (Fortifications or Facilities)
Garrisoned troops
If there is a (star)port in the region
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 08:11:36 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
What about EP?

Quote
[2.41] Regional Types

Below is a list of all of the regional statistics. The general format is as follows, reading from left to right:
Region Type
Region Name
The Region's Population Value (POP)
The Region's Industry Value (IU)
The Region's Resource Value (RM)
The Region's Wealth Value (WU)
The Region's Research Point Value (RP)
The Region's Fuel Value (FU)
Regional Housing (HU)
Regional Transportation Net levels and bonus
Region Resistance Value
Years Since Conquest and if the region is Pacified
The Control Status
The Terrain Type of the region
Construction in the region (Fortifications or Facilities)
Garrisoned troops
If there is a (star)port in the region


What is EP? I do not remember making a reference to those initials. But if I have, please point it out.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 08:35:06 PM
Energy Production Facilities

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
What about EP?

Quote
[2.41] Regional Types

Below is a list of all of the regional statistics. The general format is as follows, reading from left to right:
Region Type
Region Name
The Region's Population Value (POP)
The Region's Industry Value (IU)
The Region's Resource Value (RM)
The Region's Wealth Value (WU)
The Region's Research Point Value (RP)
The Region's Fuel Value (FU)
Regional Housing (HU)
Regional Transportation Net levels and bonus
Region Resistance Value
Years Since Conquest and if the region is Pacified
The Control Status
The Terrain Type of the region
Construction in the region (Fortifications or Facilities)
Garrisoned troops
If there is a (star)port in the region

What is EP? I do not remember making a reference to those initials. But if I have, please point it out.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Energy Production Facilities


Now I really do feel like a bonehead! DOH! :oops:  Also gonna need one for food production to. Let me whip up the new categories.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 09:16:05 PM
Always welling to help you feel your best!  :oops:  Also gonna need one for food production to. Let me whip up the new categories.[/quote]
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 09:19:11 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Always welling to help you feel your best!  :wink:
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 09:34:38 PM
Yes, it is.

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Always welling to help you feel your best!  :wink:
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 09:55:24 PM
Quote
2T
 What does the 2T stand for? I do not see an explanation anywhere in section 7.5.

Quote
[7.5] Fortification & Facility Construction

Medium Forts: 100 wu, 2T and 1 pp per 2
Medium Forts are basically extremely badass Picket Forts, with excellent sensors coupled with armament capable of being a serious threat to Capital Ships. They can carry up to 25DP of aircraft and have the Cargo Capacity half that of an equal tech Superfreighter
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 09:58:19 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Quote
2T
 What does the 2T stand for? I do not see an explanation anywhere in section 7.5.

Quote
[7.5] Fortification & Facility Construction

Medium Forts: 100 wu, 2T and 1 pp per 2
Medium Forts are basically extremely badass Picket Forts, with excellent sensors coupled with armament capable of being a serious threat to Capital Ships. They can carry up to 25DP of aircraft and have the Cargo Capacity half that of an equal tech Superfreighter


2 turns for construction. I guess that is a wee bit obscure.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 26, 2008, 10:00:50 PM
Do we need pop for ports? I needed a port on the second continent, but wanted most of my pop in the interior. Also, do you have any commentary on how I distributed my facilities?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 26, 2008, 10:05:56 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Do we need pop for ports? I needed a port on the second continent, but wanted most of my pop in the interior. Also, do you have any commentary on how I distributed my facilities?


As of now, no, but you do need industry since the I level determines how large of a port you can have.

A good distribution, but your Cargo throughput is very weak. if someone declared war on you you would be severely crippled. Your resources, industry,  and military would be immobilized due to logistics jams. You may wish to increase that quite a bit. Take a look at what I have for Albion on the Spreadsheet I sent you. that will give you some idea of what would be a good beginning Transport net.

And in war, as the GM, I will be watching TNs REAL careful like.  :wink:
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 27, 2008, 07:44:29 PM
I posted the combat rules. Haegan, let me know if that example of combat was sufficient.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 27, 2008, 10:06:03 PM
Quote
Skilled Infantry:  per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields

The land calc is:

Quote
Land:
(number of troops)x(training)x(1.00+sum of combat modifiers)+(combat bonuses/penalties)= Land Combat Rating


So my Inf has a LCR of :
10,000x2x4+0=60,000?
Title: My sparse forces.
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 27, 2008, 10:25:51 PM
total of 88 NP spent on units. Zero left. NP sources are as follows:

Space Dweller- 20pts
Large Population ? 5pts
Heavy Industry ? 5pts
High finance ? 5pts
Nuke Free Zone + 30pts
Patent Office + 5pts
Ancient Dangers +25pts

ideas?

Archaeologists: 200   100 per unit 1.6 NP total
Pospectors: 200 1.6 NP total
Exploring: 200  1.6 NP total

WET

(40)Freighter: 50 wu, Iron and 1 pp per 10
20,000 CC at level 8
50 WU, 8PP (0.8NP)

(5)Destroyer: 58 WU, Iron and 40 PP(4NP) per 5
They also have hangar space for 1 DP worth of aircraft, mainly for shuttles and patrol aircraft.
+1 Anti aircraft, +1 speed, +1 armor, +1 weapons

(2)Cruiser: 58 WU, Iron and 40 PP(4NP) per 2
+1 sensors, +1 long range weapons, +1 particle beam Heavy cannon, +1 armor,  
 

(2)Escort Carrier: 54 WU, Iron and 24 PP(2.4NP) per 2
They have very limited weapons and defenses, and their only power is derived from the aircraft they carry. They have a Deck Capacity of 25 DP,
10,000 CC
+1 stealth, +1 speed

SPACE

(20)Freighter: 52 WU, Iron and 16 PP(1.6 NP) per 10
20,000 CC at level 8
+1 Starship Drives

(2)Scout Class Cruiser
64wu/64pp/Iron/Block, 2/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+2
TL8 +1 Reaction Drives (Chem) +1 Shields +2 Imp. Sci. Instruments +1 Scientific AI
External Slots: +1 Sensors +1 Deck Cap (25 DPs)

(5)Patrol Class Destroyer
60wu/48pp/Iron/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+1
TL8 +1 Reaction Drives (chem) +1 Fast Tracking +1 Low Maint. +1 Speed
External Slots: +1 Sensors

LAND

(50,000)Skilled Infantry: 31 WU and 32 PP(3.2 NP) per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1 + 1

(500)Infantry Carriers: 33 WU and 40 PP(4 NP) per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility, +1 armor, +1 fast tracking
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

(1000)Infantry Carriers: 33 WU and 40 PP(4 NP) per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility, +1 Armor, +1 fast tracking
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

(200)Main Battle Tanks: 33 WU and 40 PP(4 NP) per 100
+1 armor, +1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon,
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

(2000)Logistics Vehicles: 25 Wu and 8 PP(0.8 NP) per 1,000
80cc for TL 8
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

(200)Self-Propelled Artillery: 31 WU and 32 PP(3.2 NP) per 200
+1 mobility, +1 long range, +1 sensors(UAVs)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


(20)Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
60 WU 48 PP(4.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

At 2 Deck Points take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
+1 Arms:
+1 All Weather Training(external, 2 more external available)
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 27, 2008, 10:28:40 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Quote
Skilled Infantry:  per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields

The land calc is:

Quote
Land:
(number of troops)x(training)x(1.00+sum of combat modifiers)+(combat bonuses/penalties)= Land Combat Rating

So my Inf has a LCR of :
10,000x2x4+0=60,000?


Without any combat modifiers it is 20K The Caps have differing combat values depending on tech levels and what they do.

So lets set up what your 10K inf would look like.

10K {soldiers} x2 {training} x(1.00 {base} +1.75 {+1 Weapons} +1.00 {Armor} +.75 {Shields}) +0 {bonus/penalty} = 90K
Total Combat Rating of your Infantry = 90K

Now you see why I said Capping a Unit to the max is VERY good. It may take a lot of resources and time to build, but as you can see, the Caps are huge force modifiers.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 27, 2008, 10:32:58 PM
You will want to set up what you have in production.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 27, 2008, 10:36:08 PM
Yes, very useful. I need to figure out where my troops are and what I want to be making.

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
I posted the combat rules. Haegan, let me know if that example of combat was sufficient.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 27, 2008, 10:56:17 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Yes, quite informative. I need to figure out where my troops are.


Yup, it is quite important to have the proper garrisons on hand, ask the Franks all about that.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 27, 2008, 10:58:58 PM
It was a well designed example. It sucks to be the Franks about now. The loss of a large naval presence and the absolute destruction of a city and its industrial potential :wink:  As an aside, in that example all the Franks would have needed for the siege to be unsuccessful was to have a proper garrison present.

As it was, the Albionese damn near came close to being stalled. Surprise and overwhelming force made up for their lack of siege weapons or artillery. And if they had been stalled, the reacting army the franks sent after the decoy force could have reacted back into that region and then it would have been a different story all together.  :D[/quote]
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 27, 2008, 11:04:13 PM
I have looked at the pregame setup and I se Albions in production figures, but there is no reference to where I amay go to find out how to do this.

For instance, my shipyard has only two slips that support up to CA size ships. If I have a block of freighters in production they can only make two at a time?

I recall something about the Army depot being able to train 10 units at a time? Can we consolidate this into an easy reference annex?
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 27, 2008, 11:05:54 PM
As a side note, do I have rocket manufacturies? or do I need to spend a NP on this?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 27, 2008, 11:06:24 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
It was a well designed example. It sucks to be the Franks about now. The loss of a large naval presence and the absolute destruction of a city and its industrial potential :shock:
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 28, 2008, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I have looked at the pregame setup and I se Albions in production figures, but there is no reference to where I amay go to find out how to do this.

For instance, my shipyard has only two slips that support up to CA size ships. If I have a block of freighters in production they can only make two at a time?

I recall something about the Army depot being able to train 10 units at a time? Can we consolidate this into an easy reference annex?


From the last paragraph in [2.5] National Infrastructure

As a final note, it is assumed that your Nation did not simply spring into existence the day you created its OOB, and that its factories were quite busy prior to its entry into the game. Thus you start the game with a number of items already in initial production and 50% complete. This number is rated in Production Points (which are used to buy military units) and is equal to the total of all your Infrastructure Categories; Industry, Resources, Wealth, Research, Transport Net, Fuel and the Production Bonus given by your Housed Population Units.

Then the example:

Example: Albion

Ken's Infrastructure and statistics are as follows;

INFRASTRUCTURE: 355 + 40 from housed pop bonus = 395

IN PRODUCTION:

Code: [Select]
5 Locust Aerial Gunboats  15pp                            30 months
5 Reliant Aerial Destroyers 24pp                           24 months
20 Ackerman Small Aerial Steamships 18pp                   18 months
2 Typhoon Class ?ther Protected Cruisers 72pp              36 months
1 Duke of Yorck Class ?ther Battleship 84 pp               84 months
5 White Star ?ther Liners  30pp                            30 months
500 Lab Rats (1 level metallics) 2pp                       1 month
500 Lab rats (1 Level ?thernautics) 2pp                    1 month
300 Prospectors:  6pp                                      1 month
300 Explorers:  6pp                                        1 month
50 Yorck Class Steam Walkers  18pp                         18 months
50 Londin Class Steam Walkers  18pp                        18 months
50 Tribal Class Destroyers  30pp                           6 months
15 Medea Class Protected Cruisers 18pp                     6 months
3 Orlando Class Armored Cruisers  18pp                     6 months
2 Royal Sovereign Pre-Dreadnaught Battleships 24pp         12 months
5 Large Steamships 10pp                                    10 months


Most everything is pretty well covered. The annexes will come out once the rules have been finished and tested.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 28, 2008, 11:08:45 AM
I still need to redo the example setup since it is woefully out of date with all the new rules additions.  :shock:
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 28, 2008, 02:40:11 PM
Posted the Intelligence and Assassination Rules.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 28, 2008, 07:17:30 PM
I thought that prod time was equal to PP cost. That would make this a little inconsistant?

[quote="??rgr?mr

5 Locust Aerial Gunboats  15pp                            30 months
5 Reliant Aerial Destroyers 24pp                           24 months
20 Ackerman Small Aerial Steamships 18pp                   18 months
2 Typhoon Class ?ther Protected Cruisers 72pp              36 months
1 Duke of Yorck Class ?ther Battleship 84 pp               84 months
5 White Star ?ther Liners  30pp                            30 months
500 Lab Rats (1 level metallics) 2pp                       1 month
500 Lab rats (1 Level ?thernautics) 2pp                    1 month
300 Prospectors:  6pp                                      1 month
300 Explorers:  6pp                                        1 month
50 Yorck Class Steam Walkers  18pp                         18 months
50 Londin Class Steam Walkers  18pp                        18 months
50 Tribal Class Destroyers  30pp                           6 months
15 Medea Class Protected Cruisers 18pp                     6 months
3 Orlando Class Armored Cruisers  18pp                     6 months
2 Royal Sovereign Pre-Dreadnaught Battleships 24pp         12 months
5 Large Steamships 10pp                                    10 months
[/quote]
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 28, 2008, 07:33:18 PM
Nope, as it states in the various production rules Production time is double the PP cost in months. And that is modified by Engineering TL and when high enough brings the cost down to PP = Prod time.  :D

From [7.6.3] Unit Production

Production for military units is not instantaneous. The full cost is paid as production starts, and if this cannot be paid for then construction cannot start, but completion can extend over months or even years. In the case of military units, the time to completion is determined by the total Production Cost of the unit multiplied by tech level, but no more than twice its PP cost in months. This number in months is the amount of time needed to finish the unit in question.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 29, 2008, 09:02:14 AM
Added numbering to the National Infrastructure section of the Pre-Game Setup rules. Adjusted the pre-game production example to make it easier to follow. Both suggested by Haegan2005. Thanks bud, and keep up the good work!  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 02:46:55 PM
Fixed the bug in the National Food Production formula spotted by Haegan2005.

I added two sections to the combat rules I left out, Destroying Worlds and Commerce Raiding. Both are now in.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 06:10:23 PM
Posted the Trade Rules.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 06:39:30 PM
Fixed the mistake made in the Intelligence rules.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 08:50:30 PM
Going back over my notes it seems I left out a lot of stuff.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 30, 2008, 10:22:03 PM
What would the tilt wing transport that the  marines are buying be from
and how would I mod it?



Light Aviation Transport: 50 wu and 1 pp per 50 ?
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 10:38:52 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
What would the tilt wing transport that the  marines are buying be from
and how would I mod it?



Light Aviation Transport: 50 wu and 1 pp per 50 ?


First of all I would think the Heavy Aviation Transport would be better suited to the role.

So I would suggest this:

V-22 Osprey Gunship (Heavy Aviation Transport)
56wu/32pp/Block, 10/Block (CC 400 each, 4000/block)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Weapons (Heavy Cannon) +1 Speed (Tilt Rotors)

Since it is a heavy Aviation class it ignores the armor penalty most aviation classes have, The Weapons represent the cannons present, and the +1 Speed gives it the speed of a normal prop driven aircraft while still retaining the Cargo and VTOL ability of the aviation class base body style.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 30, 2008, 10:59:49 PM
Sold! :D[/quote]
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 30, 2008, 11:05:22 PM
These are just some basic ideas. I have also considered cheaper versions so I can get my carriers filled up quickly and then phase in the better units later.

Fighter: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 weapons, +1 fuel, +1 dogfighting, +1 Multirole
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Strike Fighter: 56 wu and 32 pp per 25
+1 ordinance, +1 weapons, +1 ECM
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Interdictor Aircraft: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 speed, +1 weapons, +1 agility, +1 fuel
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 2


V-22 Osprey Gunship (Heavy Aviation Transport)
56wu/32pp/Block, 10/Block (CC 400 each, 4000/block)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Weapons (Heavy Cannon) +1 Speed (Tilt Rotors)

Medium Airlift Transports: 50 wu and 24 pp per 25
+2 cargo
The C-17 is a good example of this type. 6 Deck Points. 800 CC
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Awacs: 60 wu and 56 pp per 5
+1 command, +1 communications, +2 sensors
External: +2 ECCM
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 3



Star Fighter: 56 wu and 48 pp per 25
The main purpose of Fighter aircraft is to shoot down other aircraft,
 +1 multi-roled, -1 space only, +1 dogfight, +1 agile
External: +1 ordanance, +1 fuel
 1 Deck Point on carriers.
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 2


Star Awacs: 58 wu and 48 pp per 5
-1 space only, +3 sensors,
Exteranl +2 ECCM
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 4
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 11:06:00 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Sold! :D

I actually like to design the units. So I am looking forward to when the rules get done and I can concentrate on getting the Units supplement going.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 30, 2008, 11:10:07 PM
I remember seeing the pics in the paper and online. It is a cool looking craft and should be a better force multiplier then the cobras and any remaining hueys. I used to be an extreme military aircraft buff(or so I thought) and then went into other things. I still love themil hardware though and somehow am still fascinated by it.

Quote from: "??rgr?mr"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Sold! :D

I actually like to design the units. So I am looking forward to when the rules get done and I can concentrate on getting the Units supplement going.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 30, 2008, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I remember seeing the pics in the paper and online. It is a cool looking craft and should be a better force multiplier then the cobras and any remaining hueys. I used to be an extreme military aircraft buff(or so I thought) and then went into other things. I still love themil hardware though and somehow am still fascinated by it.


Once they got the bugs worked out the Osprey is a very versitile craft. The biggest problems they had was with the Tilt Rotors. They had a tendency to fail while going from VTOL to normal flight. But they seem to have that bug fixed and it appears to be a sweet machine.  :D

Thats why I figured the Heavy Aviation Class would represent it better.
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 30, 2008, 11:29:52 PM
did you have comments on the unit designs I posted earlier?

Quote
Thats why I figured the Heavy Aviation Class would represent it better
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 30, 2008, 11:37:29 PM
Would htis not provide a net gain  of .1 Wv per month per layer?

Quote
Primitive Railroad Layers now cost .2 WU and .1 RM per month per layer. Each level of Primitive Railroads allows your populace to travel further afield to find the goods and services they desire and also increases the efficiency of your industry by keeping them supplied with raw materials and constant transport to the markets. So Primitive Railroad provides a .3 increase to the wealth of the Region. You may not have more Primitive Railroad Wealth bonuses than you have population. Example, you have a populace of 3 in a region, so the maximum bonus you could get with Primitive Railroads is .9 WU.
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 31, 2008, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Would htis not provide a net gain  of .1 Wv per month per layer?

Quote
Primitive Railroad Layers now cost .2 WU and .1 RM per month per layer. Each level of Primitive Railroads allows your populace to travel further afield to find the goods and services they desire and also increases the efficiency of your industry by keeping them supplied with raw materials and constant transport to the markets. So Primitive Railroad provides a .3 increase to the wealth of the Region. You may not have more Primitive Railroad Wealth bonuses than you have population. Example, you have a populace of 3 in a region, so the maximum bonus you could get with Primitive Railroads is .9 WU.


Yup, that is correct once you take in the maintenance for the PRR layer  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 31, 2008, 09:31:55 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
These are just some basic ideas. I have also considered cheaper versions so I can get my carriers filled up quickly and then phase in the better units later.

Fighter: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 weapons, +1 fuel, +1 dogfighting, +1 Multirole
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Strike Fighter: 56 wu and 32 pp per 25
+1 ordinance, +1 weapons, +1 ECM
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Interdictor Aircraft: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 speed, +1 weapons, +1 agility, +1 fuel
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 2


V-22 Osprey Gunship (Heavy Aviation Transport)
56wu/32pp/Block, 10/Block (CC 400 each, 4000/block)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Weapons (Heavy Cannon) +1 Speed (Tilt Rotors)

Medium Airlift Transports: 50 wu and 24 pp per 25
+2 cargo
The C-17 is a good example of this type. 6 Deck Points. 800 CC
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1


Awacs: 60 wu and 56 pp per 5
+1 command, +1 communications, +2 sensors
External: +2 ECCM
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 3



Star Fighter: 56 wu and 48 pp per 25
The main purpose of Fighter aircraft is to shoot down other aircraft,
 +1 multi-roled, -1 space only, +1 dogfight, +1 agile
External: +1 ordanance, +1 fuel
 1 Deck Point on carriers.
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 2


Star Awacs: 58 wu and 48 pp per 5
-1 space only, +3 sensors,
Exteranl +2 ECCM
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 4


Fighter: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 weapons, +1 fuel, +1 dogfighting, +1 Multirole
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+1

The +1 Fuel will of course raise the Fuel upkeep by one.


Strike Fighter: 56 wu and 32 pp per 25
+1 ordinance, +1 weapons, +1 ECM
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Weapons and Ordinance are still weapons so add one to the Industry upkeep.


Awacs: 60 wu and 56 pp per 5
+1 command, +1 communications, +2 sensors
External: +2 ECCM
Industrial Upkeep: 1+2 (+2 Externals), Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+4 (Comm, Sens, +2 for ECCM)

This is a very inefficient design due to putting the ECM as an external Cap. Since the ECCM adds 2 fuel and then adds two to industry for being an external Cap. Below is what I recommend:

Awacs
56wu/48pp/Block, 5/Block  
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+3
TL8 +1 Command +1 Communications +2 Sensors
External: +1 ECCM

In this configuration you save yourself 1 IUU, 1 fuel, 2 WU, and 8 PPs. It's still a fuel hog but there isn't much it can't see or command.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 31, 2008, 01:42:41 PM
I got one out of eight right! I'm improving!

Quote
Interdictor Aircraft: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 speed, +1 weapons, +1 agility, +1 fuel
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 2
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 31, 2008, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
I got one out of eight right! I'm improving!

Quote
Interdictor Aircraft: 58 wu and 40 pp per 25
+1 speed, +1 weapons, +1 agility, +1 fuel
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 2


Lol, all it takes is practice. But you are doing good. your cost calcs are usually correct. On this last batch the only problem was with the extra upkeep and the not taking into account the reduced Caps. Otherwise was a good effort. Keep up the good work bud.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on June 01, 2008, 06:56:24 PM
I posted the diplomacy rules. This is my first attempt at writing diplo rules, so be gentle in your criticisms.  :D
Title:
Post by: Haegan2005 on June 02, 2008, 11:56:34 PM
troop Freighter: 58 wu, Iron and 40 pp per 10
 30,000 CC at level 8
+1 deck capacity(helo deck for troop loading)25 DC
+1 Assault Ship
+1 cargo
+1 Anti air
IU 1, Wu 1 Wu 1

Sub H-K: 60 wu, Iron and 48 pp per 2
+3 submersible +1 torpedo +1 Long ranged Weapons (Missiles)
External: +1 Sonar tail.
IU 2, Wu 1 FU 1

Sub Freighter: 56 wu, Iron and 32 pp per 10
 30,000 CC at level 8
+2 submersible
+1 cargo
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on June 03, 2008, 08:26:52 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
troop Freighter: 58 wu, Iron and 40 pp per 10
 30,000 CC at level 8
+1 deck capacity(helo deck for troop loading)25 DC
+1 Assault Ship
+1 cargo
+1 Anti air
IU 1, Wu 1 Wu 1

Sub H-K: 60 wu, Iron and 48 pp per 2
+3 submersible +1 torpedo +1 Long ranged Weapons (Missiles)
External: +1 Sonar tail.
IU 2, Wu 1 FU 1

Sub Freighter: 56 wu, Iron and 32 pp per 10
 30,000 CC at level 8
+2 submersible
+1 cargo

Tarawa Class LHA Troopship
58wu/40pp/Iron/Block, 10/Block  (CC 30K)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1+1
TL8 +1 Deck Capacity (Troop Slicks) +1 Assault Ship +1 Cargo +1 Anti-Air

The Deck Capacity increases either Ind or Fuel upkeep. So pick either one to increase. Usually Ind is the easier to maintain. Also WU cost is 58.

Sub Freighter: 56 wu, Iron and 32 pp per 10
 30,000 CC at level 8
+2 submersible
+1 cargo[/quote]

Cargo Sub
56wu/32pp/Iron/Block, 10/Block  (CC 30K)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +2 Submersible +1 Cargo

Good design, simple and succinct.  :D
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on July 02, 2008, 03:32:28 PM
The Beyond the Stars! playtest has now begun. Haegan 2005 and I have been busy the last month getting the spreadsheets ready and tweaking the rules for the game.

We felt that they were in a state that we felt they could be playtested without major problems.

The INN news bits posted were related directly to orders Haegan had given. So you can see how that portion of BTS! is slated to work. The Player may also submit news bits to the GM to be included in the next months update of the INN.

They can be most anything the player wishes, but mainly as hints or warnings to other players. Think of some of the news broadcasts during the cold war for an idea of how that works. Or they can be idsinformation to mislead other powers or just plain ole fluff for flavor. How ever the player wishes it.

They are subject to editing and approval by the GM. So expect that if you submit a news bit to your local INN Bureau.  :D

Later on today I will be posting some screenies of the lovely spreadsheets Haegan has created for the game. The only one the player mainly deals with is the Empire Orders Sheet. The others are mainly for informational purposes and to help the player calculate certain costs, like our handy dandy colony cost calculator.

If anybody is interested in joining Haegan and myself in playtesting this game, please by all means let us know. The more eyes we have the more problems can be corrected.



Cheers,  ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on July 02, 2008, 07:48:44 PM
All credit for the spreadsheets goes to Haegan2005. For he created these beauties and they make playing and GMing the game a breeze.  :D

One note. The only spreadsheet the player needs to worry about as of this point is the Empire Orders Sheet. All the others are mainly to give the player all the information he needs to write his orders.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title:
Post by: Þórgrímr on July 16, 2008, 07:00:22 PM
The playtest is going along quite well. We have two new powers in the test as you can see in the INN posting.  :D

Any who would like to participate feel free to make your wish to join known.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Haegan2005 on May 02, 2009, 02:23:35 PM
For Playtest 3 we have added a variety of things, but the most important are Automation and Efficiency. These effect population usage and upkeep for the infrastructure and transport layers.

As a side note, it is going to be easy to run out of population quickly when building infrastructure and facilities as they eat up anywhere from 100k to 500k of population for each one. A beginning nation would be wise to spend on automation early so that you can continue to keep expanding your infrastructure base without hitting the population wall.
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on May 02, 2009, 02:53:14 PM
Good point Haegan. Since we added the new population, prestige, popularity, and Auto/Eff rules the game has expanded in a whole new direction. Population is no longer just a resource or wealth generator. You have to actually employ them and take care of them.  :D



Cheers, Þórgrímr
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Haegan2005 on August 23, 2009, 01:33:19 AM
We are now testing colonization of other planets and little details like pirates and racial diplomacy.

The following are mech battalions for my race:

Very Heavy Artillery Walker:  (closest to a MAC II from Robotech)
97wu /174pp /1BE   14 mos prod time
Industrial Upkeep: 0.7, Wealth Upkeep: 0.1, Fuel Upkeep: 0.3
AR 26/13 DR 26/13 0 PP
TL 12, +6 Artillary Extended Range, +1 Sensors, +3 ECCM, +1 Legs

Combat Walkers: (Newest unit, legs included in PP cost, may end up buying arms for it... 8) )
110wu /162pp /1BE   13 mos prod time
Industrial Upkeep: 0.3, Wealth Upkeep: 0.1, Fuel Upkeep: 0.2
AR 19/23 DR 15/19 0 PP
TL 12, +3 Weapons, +1 Sensors, +1 Shields/Point Defenses

Main Battle Tank Walkers: (walking tanks, old design)
112wu /132pp /2BE   11 mos prod time
Industrial Upkeep: 0.3, Wealth Upkeep: 0.1, Fuel Upkeep: 0.1
AR 18/23 DR 14/15 0 PP
TL 12, +3 Weapons, +1 Legs, +1 Battle Computer, +1 Sensors

more to come!
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Sirus on June 01, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
Interested, but confused. Is this a tabletop wargame? Indie computer program a-la Aurora? Pen-and-paper RPG? I'm a huge fan of the 4x genre, and would dearly love to try BTS! out  :D
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on June 01, 2010, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: "Sirus"
Interested, but confused. Is this a tabletop wargame? Indie computer program a-la Aurora? Pen-and-paper RPG? I'm a huge fan of the 4x genre, and would dearly love to try BTS! out  :D

So the best short description is this small quote from the rules:

Beyond the Stars! is designed as a 4X - eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate - computer assisted Nation simulation game. Players send their orders to the GM and he or she will process them and reply with the turn results.

So if you are interested head on over to the Gunny Pubs Forums and register. Then PM me and let me know you wish to join and I will add you to the players group so you play.   :D



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Sirus on June 01, 2010, 09:25:16 PM
Sounds interesting! Methinks I will sign up, after reading the rules. Thanks for the quick response  :)
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on June 01, 2010, 09:30:34 PM
Quote from: "Sirus"
Sounds interesting! Methinks I will sign up, after reading the rules. Thanks for the quick response  :D



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on January 31, 2013, 03:15:22 PM
Back when I first began to create Beyond the Stars! I had to make some hard decisions concerning major engine designs for the game. One of these decisions was how a player would design and create his units.

I had boiled it down to two methods:

1.) A Unit would have Manpower and Equipment Points, along with a Manpower Training time, and an Equipment Point Construction time.

2.) Combine it all and use a formula to, somewhat, reflect reality, but have only what was called BE's, or Battalion Equivalents.

I originally wanted to use method one, but I talked myself out of using it because I thought it would make things more complex. Suffice it to say, to create a Unit using method 2 required a rather complex algebraic formula. This was the reason behind Haegan creating the Unitmaker. This program did all of the math for the player and spat out a design.

Needless to say, I was always uneasy using this method. The units were taking far too long to build and just did not 'feel' right. It was more akin to building robot armies, rather than armies of men and machines.

Over the last month I had finally resolved to undo that huge mistake and rewrote the Unit Creation rules. Now a player forms a unit by training the Manpower and building the equipment that the unit being formed will use. I think going this route actually simplifies the Unit Creation rules a bit. In this, and the next couple of posts are some examples involving Land, Air, and Naval unit formation. Any input would be very helpful.  :)

Unit Stat Examples:
All examples are for Complex Battalions.

Code: [Select]
Battalion Type           AR     DR     AM     Cost:WU/EP/MP     Size
____________________________________________________________________
Leg Infantry             1/2    2/2    0/1    2.5/1EP/.5MP      .5
Mech Inf                 3/4    3/4    3/3     10/1EP/1MP        1
Lt Tank                  7/1    5/1    3/3      5/1EP/1MP        1
Main Battle Tank         8/3    7/3    6/6     10/1EP/1MP        2
Very Heavy Tank          11/3   10/3   8/8     12.5/1EP/1MP      3


Land Unit Example:
The Terran player determines that he needs more Equipment Points to train more Mechanized Infantry Battalions. So the player begins to build the equipment he needs. A Mechanized Infantry Battalion uses Infantry Fighting Vehicles as the equipment. Although IFV's are a bit more expensive than APC's, their increased combat capabilities makes them more than just the battle taxi's that APC's are for a Motorized Infantry Battalion. The player knows the cost is 55 WU's and 5 IUU's per equipment point for IFV's. However, this is not enough for his plans so he adds a +1 Anti-Tank Weapons Cap (TOW ATGM) to his design. So each IFV Equipment Point with the +1 Anti-Tank Weapons Cap has a cost of 57 WU’s, an IUU cost of 7, and a construction time of 18 weeks.

The player now determines he wants to train a Mechanized Infantry Battalion. He begins by finding the Mechanized Infantry training time in the above list, which is 18 weeks. Then the player divides his Eng Tech level by two, rounded up, which ends up as 4. Then he adds 3 weeks for the +1 Anti-Tank Weapons cap. The time needed for training is 25 weeks. The cost to train the new Battalion is 10 WU's, .5 of an Active, or Reservist Manpower BE, and 1 Equipment Point of IFV's from the Manpower and Equipment Pools. He then assigns it to the 43rd Mechanized Infantry Training Battalion, which has a training slot remaining to be able train the new unit. His Unit Control Sheet would look like the following:

Mechanized Infantry Battalion
10wu/7iuu/.5 A mp/1 IFV EP/Bn
AR 4/5 - DR 4/5 AM 3/3
Industrial Upkeep: .1, Wealth Upkeep: .1, Fuel Upkeep: .1
TL7 +1 Anti-Tank Weapons (TOW ATGM)



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on January 31, 2013, 03:24:25 PM
Up next is the new Naval Unit Formation Example. Any input is welcome.

Naval Unit Stat Examples:
All examples are for Complex Naval ships.

Code: [Select]
Ship Type           AR     DR     AM     Cost:WU/IUU     Size  
________________________________________________________________
Gunboat             1/1    1/2    0/0        40/2         1
Destroyer           3/4    3/4    1/1        75/12        2            
Battleship          6/2    6/6    2/5       200/60        5            


Naval Unit Example:
The Terran player determines he needs a freighter with a larger than normal cargo capacity. So the player begins to design a freighter to the specs he needs. First he decides to use the Super Freighter as the base template. He knows it can carry 10 times the normal cargo capacity of a same tech regular freighter, which at Eng Tech level 7 is 1,000 TEU's. So the base template of his design has a cargo capacity of 10,000 TEU's. However, this is not enough for his plans so he adds a +1 Cargo cap to his design and decides to add a Regular Diesel engine to power his design.

The Super Freighter has a base cost of 40 WUs and 8 IUUs and size 4 per freighter, but since the player has added a +1 Cargo Cap, it has a new base cost of 42 WUs and 10 IUUs that he multiplies by 4 for a final cost of 168 WUs and 40 IUUs. The player then assigns it to a Ship Yard that has a slipway with the capacity to construct it. The Construction time for the new Super Freighter is 16 weeks, with a cargo capacity of 15,000 TEU's.

Now the Player must determine the cost and how long it will take to train crew for the new ship. The cost to train a crew for a Super Freighter is as follows; 10 wus and 1 Manpower Point. The Base Ship Class Training time for a Super Freighter is 6 weeks, and the eng TL is 7/2 = 4, and the +1 Cargo Cap adds 3 weeks. So the time needed to Train the Ship's Crew is 6+4+3=13 weeks. The Final Talley is 10 WUs, 1 Manpower Point, and 13 weeks to train the crew.

His Super Freighter Class template would look like the following:

Super Freighter: 15,000TEU's - Texaco Class
10wu/1 mp/1 st ep/ 16 wks prod time
Industrial Upkeep: 0.1, Wealth Upkeep: 0.1, Fuel Upkeep: 0.1 (Oil)
AR 0/0 DR 0/1 AM 0/1 4 PP
TL 7, +1 Cargo Capacity, +1 Regular Diesel Engine



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on January 31, 2013, 03:39:12 PM
Up next is the Air Unit Example. Any input would be most helpful.


Air Unit Examples:
All examples are for Complex Air Squadrons.

Code: [Select]
Equipment Type          AA     GA     DR     EW      Cost:WU/EP/IUU     Size
____________________________________________________________________________
Strike Fighter          0/1    0/8    0/1    1/0         8/2EP/6         2
Super Fighter           4/8    2/4    3/6    1/1        10/1EP/12        1           
Naval Strike Fighter    0/1    0/8    0/1    1/0         8/1EP/6         1
Gunship                 0/2    0/8    0/0    1/1        7.5/3EP/6        1


Air Unit Example:
The Terran player wishes to give his ground forces some air support. Some attack helicopters, some multi-role fighters, and even some AWACS.

For the helicopters he takes the base Type 'Gunship', and creates an apropriate equipment point, which has a cost of 75 WUs, 6 IUU's, size 1, and a construction time of 7 weeks. He decides to take advantage of the armor option and adds one point (+2 WUs and +2 IUUs). Were it a normal aircraft Squadron this would automatically make it either slower or less manueverable. However, for a Gunship Aviation Equipment Point Design, the first point of armor is free of this maneuver minus. The Terran Player decides he wants another point of armor on his Gunship helicopters, another (+2 WUs and +2 IUUs). The design has to pay for this one in performance, and he chooses to make the helicopter design less maneuverable. He also wants some extra heavy guns on his flying tank (+2 WUs and + 2 IUUs), so he takes a final Added Capability. He then takes the base cost of 75 WUs and 6 IUUs and adds in the Cap WU and IUU cost of 6 WUs and 6 IUUs. Then he multiplies this amount by one (the size modifier), and one Squadron of 12 of these attack Gunships costs 81 WUs 12 IUUs and takes 7 weeks to construct.

Now the player must determine how long it will take to train the pilots and ground crews for the new Squadron. He begins by finding the Gunship training time in the above list, which is 22 weeks. Then the player divides his Eng Tech level by two, rounded up, which ends up as 4. Then he adds 9 weeks for the +1 Weapons (Heavy Cannon) cap and the +2 Armor Cap. The time needed for training is 35 weeks. The cost to train the new Attack Helicopter Battalion is 7.5 WU's, 1 Active, or Reservist Manpower BE, and Gunship 1 Equipment Point from the Manpower and Equipment Pools. He then assigns it to the 1/434th Gunship Training Battalion, which has a training slot remaining to be able train the new unit. His Unit Control Sheet would look like the following:

Warlord Gunship
7.5wu/1mp/1 GS ep/ squadron, size 1
AA 0/2 GA 1/9 DR 2/4 EW 1/1
Industrial Upkeep: .2, Wealth Upkeep: .1, Fuel Upkeep: .1
TL7 +2 Armor, +1 Weapons (Heavy Cannon), -1 Manuverability (Armor effect)


Example Two:
For fighters, the Terran player decides he wants something that can do a host of tasks. For the Fighters he takes the base Type 'Fighter', and creates an apropriate equipment point, which has a cost of 75 wus, 4 IUU's, size 1, and a construction time of 18 weeks. He decides to take one point of Multi-Role (+2 wu and +2 iuu). Any aircraft can drop bombs, of course, but now this fighter is a true fighter-bomber. He then takes the base cost of 75 WUs and 4 IUUs and adds in the Cap WU and IUU costs of 2 WUs and 2 IUUs. Then he multiplies this amount by one (the size modifier), and one equipment point of these attack Fighters costs 77 WUs 6 IUUs and takes 7 weeks to construct. However, the Terran Player wants his Squadron to have 24 aircraft in the Squadron. So he builds another equipment point. The total for both equipment points comes to 144 WUs and 12 IUUs.

Now the player must determine how long it will take to train the pilots and ground crews for the new Squadron. He begins by finding the Fighter training time in the above list, which is 48 weeks. Then the player divides his Eng Tech level by two, rounded up, which ends up as 4. Then he adds 3 weeks for the +1 Multi-Role cap. The time needed for training is 55 weeks. The cost to train the new Multi-Role Fighter Squadron is 7.5 WU's x 2 (Size) 15 WU's, 2 Active, or Reservist Manpower BE's, and 2 Fighter Equipment Points from the Manpower and Equipment Pools. He then assigns it to the 254th Fighter Training Squadron, which has a training slot remaining to be able train the new unit. His Unit Control Sheet would look like the following:

F-16 Falcon
15wu/2mp/2 F ep/ Squadron, Size 2
AA 0/10 GA 0/8 DR 4/16 EW 0/0
Industrial Upkeep: .4, Wealth Upkeep: .2, Fuel Upkeep: .2
TL7 +1 Multi-Role (weapons)


Example Three:
Buying his AWACS now, the Terran player takes the Sensor Aircraft based on the Heavy Airlift Type which has a base cost of 50 WUs, 16 IUU's +8 IUUs for sensor aircraft, a size of 2, and a construction time of 40 weeks. He adds in 2 levels of sensor range (+4WU's, +4IUU's), and 1 level of ECCM (+2WU's, +2IUU's) to deal with ECM and stealth. The construction cost will come out to: 50 WU's x 2 (Size) 100 WU's, and 30 IUU's x 2 (Size) 60 IUU's, with a construction time of 40 weeks for 1 Equipment Point of AWACS.

Now the player must determine how long it will take to train the pilots and ground crews for the new Squadron. He begins by finding the Heavy Airlift training time in the above list, which is 48 weeks, which he increases to 72 weeks due to the Sensor Aircraft ability. Then the player divides his Eng Tech level by two, rounded up, which ends up as 4. Then he adds 9 weeks for the +1 ECCM and +2 Sensors caps. The time needed for training is 85 weeks. The cost to train the new AWACs Squadron is 7.5 WU's, 1 Active, or Reservist Manpower BE, and 1 AWACs Equipment Point from the Manpower and Equipment Pools. He then assigns it to the 19th AWACs Training Squadron, which has a training slot remaining to be able train the new unit. His Unit Control Sheet would look like the following:

E3A AWACS (Sensor)
7.5wu/1mp/1 AWACs ep/Squadron, size 2
AA 0/0 GA 0/0 DR 0/0 EW 0/1
Industrial Upkeep: .1, Wealth Upkeep: .1, Fuel Upkeep: .1+.1
TL7 +2 Sensors +1 ECCM



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: haegan2007 on January 31, 2013, 08:03:51 PM
Can we have a sample of a "arsenal" ship?

A space and a wet ship should do it well.  We may also want to look at missile design as well


Quote from: Þórgrímr link=topic=1061. msg59895#msg59895 date=1359667465
Up next is the new Naval Unit Formation Example.  Any input is welcome.

Naval Unit Stat Examples:
All examples are for Complex Naval ships.

Code: [Select]
Ship Type           AR     DR     AM     Cost:WU/IUU     Size  
________________________________________________________________
Gunboat             1/1    1/2    0/0        40/2         1
Destroyer           3/4    3/4    1/1        75/12        2            
Battleship          6/2    6/6    2/5       200/60        5            
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on January 31, 2013, 08:10:05 PM
Can we have a sample of a "arsenal" ship?

A space and a wet ship should do it well.  We may also want to look at missile design as well

I will work on it.  :)



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 01, 2013, 05:57:41 PM
If I remember the concept clearly, in the 80's, IIRC there was a plan to build a Battleship-sized warship that could, literally, swamp an enemy with a missile salvo capable of overwhelming any fleet's point defenses.

Below is my interpretation of that concept.  :) As always, comments are requested.


Example Two:
The Terran player determines that he needs to build a Dreadnought-sized warship with a larger than normal missile capacity. So the player begins to design the Anti-Ship missile he will use on the Arsenal ships. First he decides to use the Single Stage Rocket Equipment Point as the base template. However, he knows that he has to add a warhead and that a plain old ASM is not enough for his plans. So he adds a +2 Anti-Ship Warhead cap to his design for the added punch he needs, and decides to add a +1 ECM, and a +1 ECCM to his design. Normally, this would make for a VERY expensive ASM, so the player makes sure he has the -2 Expendable Reduced Cap. The player knows that the base cost for SSR's is 10 WU's, 2 IUU's, and 1 week of construction. To this he adds 8-4=4 WU's, and 8-4=4 IUU's for a final cost of 14 WU's and 6 IUu's, with a construction time of 1 week.

Now the player must determine what the ship itself will consist of. First he decides to use the Dreadnought Class Warship as the base template. However, he wants this ship to be, basically, a missile throwing monster of a ship. So he adds a +2 Deck Capacity Cap, a +1 Cargo Capacity specialized for missiles, a +1 Fleet Command Ship, a +2 External Point Defense, and equips it with a regular Diesel Engine he had already built and had in storage. The Dreadnought has a base cost of 400 WU's, 96 IUU's and size 6 per ship, but since the player has added a +2 Deck Cap, +1 Cargo Cap, +1 Fleet Command Ship Cap, and a +2 Point Defense Cap, and the engine to the design, it has a new base cost of 414 WUs and 110 IUU's that he multiplies by 6 for a final cost of 2484 WU's and 660 IUU's. The player then assigns it to a Ship Yard that has a slipway with the capacity to construct it. The Construction time for the new Arsenal Ship is 60+4+21= 85 weeks, with a cargo capacity of 2,000 TEU's of only missiles.

Now the Player must determine the cost and how long it will take to train crew for the new ship. The cost and time to train a crew for a Dreadnought is as follows; 40 WU's and 5 Manpower points. The Base Ship Class Training time for a Dreadnought is 48 weeks, and the eng TL is 7/2 = 4, and the Caps adds 7x3= 21 weeks. So the time needed to Train the Ship's Crew is 48+4+21= 73 weeks. The Final Talley is 40 WU's, 5 Manpower points, and 73 weeks to train the crew.

His Missile and Arsenal Ship Designs would look like the following:

Single Stage Rocket: Harpoon
14wu/6iuu/ Per EP - size .33 TEU
Industrial Upkeep: 0.02, Wealth Upkeep: 0.01, Fuel Upkeep: 0.01
AA 0/0 GA* 8/8 DR 1/1 EW 1/1
TL 7, +2 Anti-Ship Warhead, +1 ECM, +1 ECCM, -2 expendable
* = Naval Units Only

Dreadnought: Arsenal Ship - Terra Class - TEU's - 2000, Missiles Only
2484wu/660iuu/5 mp/ 85 wks to commission - 70 DP's - SSR Missiles Only
Industrial Upkeep: 0.3, Wealth Upkeep: 0.2, Fuel Upkeep: 0.1
AR 10/5 DR 11/11 AM 3/9
TL 7, +2 Deck Capacity (SSR Missile Cells), +1 Cargo Capacity (Missiles), +1 Fleet Command Ship, +2 Point Defense (External)
Engine: +1 Regular Diesel Engine

Now, a bit of explanation of what this stuff means.  ;D

In BTS! warships normally get to fire off missile salvos equal to their size. So, without any Deck Capacity, a normal DN can spit out 6 salvos of missiles per combat round, but this ship with a +2 Deck rating gets to double the base rate twice for a final salvo count of 36 missile salvos per combat round. Each salvo consumes 1 ep of SSR's per combat round. The Arsenal Ship will consume 36 ep's of Harpoons per combat round.

Each TEU can hold 1 size point of missiles. Since SSR's are .33 in size, each TEU of Cargo Space can hold 3 SSR class missiles. So this ship, when its cargo holds are filled, has 6,000 points of Harpoon missiles. Moreover, this equates to 166.6 combat rounds of ammunition. Truly an Arsenal Ship if I say so.  ;D



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: haegan2007 on February 01, 2013, 06:58:33 PM
Now that is a cloud of missiles.  That would require a large fleet with serious point defense to stop everything!  :o

Never mind the salvos from its escorts. . .
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 01, 2013, 07:01:47 PM
Now that is a cloud of missiles.  That would require a large fleet with serious point defense to stop everything!  :o

Never mind the salvos from its escorts. . .

Yep, that it would. It was the sheer number of missiles, and their costs, that scared of Congress. They liked the concept, but did not want to foot the bill to build the ships.  :)



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: backstab on February 02, 2013, 12:42:06 AM
Weren't they going to equip that beast with Tomahawks ?
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 02, 2013, 01:02:23 AM
Weren't they going to equip that beast with Tomahawks ?

Yep, which would have made the cost of its loadout even more expensive.  :P

EDIT: As an aside, to represent the Tomahawk just replace the SSR with a Cruise Missile Body. The rest of the design would be the same. However, Cruise Missiles are .66 in size, so the number of combat rounds of ammunition will drop by 1/3. They are, however, more flexible, since you can buy ASM, Land Attack, and Facility Attack Warheads for them.  :)



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: haegan2007 on February 02, 2013, 09:59:27 AM
What about mixed loadouts?

Quote from: Þórgrímr link=topic=1061. msg59917#msg59917 date=1359788543
Yep, which would have made the cost of its loadout even more expensive.   :P

EDIT: As an aside, to represent the Tomahawk just replace the SSR with a Cruise Missile Body.  The rest of the design would be the same.  However, Cruise Missiles are . 66 in size, so the number of combat rounds of ammunition will drop by 1/3.  They are, however, more flexible, since you can buy ASM, Land Attack, and Facility Attack Warheads for them.   :)



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 02, 2013, 02:48:54 PM
What about mixed loadouts?


Sure, you can have mixed loadouts, but you will have to make sure the GM knows the specifics of how you wish them employed in combat.  :)

So a Standing Order would be the best route.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 03, 2013, 09:37:10 AM
Added the following items to the Forts & Facs Doc:

Armory

Headquarters Equipment Manufactory

Small Arms Equipment Manufactory

Cavalry Equipment Manufactory

Infantry Basic Training Depot



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 03, 2013, 12:25:25 PM
Added the following Facs to the Forts & Facs Doc:

Planetary Drive Manufactory

System Drive Manufactory

Faster Than Light Drive Manufactory



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 03, 2013, 02:00:43 PM
Updated all of the Yard types to reflect the new training Rules.

After updating the Yards I came to the conclusion I would have to remove Submersible as a Cap, and actually create Sub types.

Removed Submersible as a Cap.

Added the Following Units to the Naval Doc:

Submersible

Submarine

Hunter-Killer

Boomer



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 03, 2013, 05:08:09 PM
While going through the Rocket Type section of the Air Doc I realized that most of those entries were equipment Point types.

So I moved the following entries to the proper Squadron type they could be, and deleted the rest. Since their costs are listed in the Forts & Facs Doc.

Strategic Aircraft & Satellite Types:
Early Spy Satellite
Reconnaissance Satellite
KEW Warsat
SBL Warsat
Gauss Warsat


Air/spacelift Types:
Aero-Spaceplane
Space Shuttle
Space Plane



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 04, 2013, 02:21:27 PM
Added the following units to the Air Doc:

Simple:

Air Land Unit Types:
Airfield Guard Battalion
Air Controller Squadron


Complex:

Air Land Unit Types:
Air Police Squadron
Missile Squadron
Air Control Squadron



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 04, 2013, 04:07:57 PM
After Haegan asked me last night about the first aircraft carriers, and doing a bit more research I found out the following:

1.) I had thought that the USS Langley (CV-1) was commissioned in 1922, but it was commissioned in 1920.

2.) The HMS Argus, the worlds first purpose built Flat Top, was commissioned in 1918.

3. The biggest surprise was that the Imperial Japanese Navy Seaplane Tender, the Wakamiya, conducted the world's first successful naval-launched air raid against the Germans in 1914.

So, with this new data I am going to add to the simple air force types naval tactical aircraft, for TL 6.98 (1918), add two new caps, one for Aircraft, Seaplane, and one for ships, Seaplane Tender. These new caps will be available at TL 6.94 (1914).



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 04, 2013, 05:44:10 PM
1.) Added the Naval Tactical Aircraft to the Simple Air Force Unit List.

2.) Added Escort Carriers to the Simple Naval Unit List.

3.) Added the new unit the Seaplane Tender to the Simple Naval Unit List.

4.) Added the Seaplane Cap to the Simple Air Caps List.

5.) Added the Atmospheric Only Reduced Cap to the Complex Air Cap List.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 05, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
I finished updating the Air Units doc to reflect the new formation and training rules.

Up next is to bring the Game Maps doc up to date.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 05, 2013, 10:42:55 AM
Below is the newest version of the introduction for the Game Maps Rules Doc. As Haegan can attest to, I created a new Stellar Coordinate System that we are going to use in BTS!.

As always, comments are requested.  :)

[2.0] THE GAME MAPS

Since the dawn of time as the species of the universe began to spread themselves to other star systems, they learned that stellar cartography was an entirely new level of mapmaking. It is easy for someone to imagine the two dimensional nature of a planet's surface and to draw boundaries across it. Space, however, is three dimensional. It does not fit well on the two dimensional maps frequently used by star nations.

Beyond the Stars! has chosen to make such representations 'top views' of the galaxy, and thus making the 'depth' of the galaxy the Z-axis. But such 2D star maps are, as one might expect, horribly inaccurate.

Just as space is 3D, so are the interstellar borders between Star Nations. A star on one XY-axis coordinate could be in the UST and another star on the exact same XY-axis coordinate, but a few light years away on the Z-axis, above or below, could be in the Numerian Commonwealth. Proper 3D political maps are, generally, giant globs of irregular-shaped masses, each with salients into each others space.

Sometimes you could come upon a straight line or 'wall' where expansion treaties or peace treaties from one or two centuries before had cleanly delineated lines of control. But, for the most part, the lines were irregular and misshapen, testimony to the struggle for rich and wealthy star systems amongst the empires.


[2.1] THE MILKY WAY GALAXY

The Milky Way is classified as a Barred Spiral Galaxy, which is roughly 13 billion years old. It is estimated that it has a diameter of 100,000 light years, a core thickness of 15,000 light years and a stellar population of 500 billion stars. It is divided into four quadrants, the Orion, the Scutum-Centarus, the Norma, and finally, the Sagittarius quadrant. The Galaxy consists of four major, Perseus, Scutum-Centarus, Sagittarius, and Outer, three minor, Near 3KPC, Norma, Far 3KPC, arms, and one spur, Orion.

The Perseus Arm has it's beginning on the northeastern end of the Galactic Bar, and is the closest arm to the Orion Spur, where Sol is located, and wraps through all four quadrants. Rimward of the Perseus Arm is the Outer Arm on the southern edge of the galaxy, which stretches through the Orion and Scutum-Centarus quadrants. The Orion Spur, mentioned earlier, is located between the Perseus and Sagittarius Arms. The Orion Spur give this quadrant it's name, the Orion Quadrant and straddles the Orion and S-C quadrant border. The Scutum-Centarus arm has it's beginning at the southwestern end of the Galactic Bar and winds it's way around the galaxy to peter out before it re-enters the Orion quadrant again. The Norma arm begins near the S-C / Norma quadrant borders and peters out before stretching into the Sagittarius Quadrant. The Sagittarius arm begins near the far side of the Galactic Bar from Sol and winds itself around until it peters out just before re-entering the Sagittarius quadrant. The two 3KPC arms are minor arms that begin and end near their respective sides of the Galactic Bar, Near and Far.

The population I stars in the galaxy's spiral arms tend to be young and towards the blue end of the spectrum, while the population II stars in the galactic core tend to be older and towards the red end of the spectrum.

Our local group of galaxies includes two very large spiral galaxies, the Milky Way and the Andromeda or M33, 2.2 million LY away, galaxies, and several dozen smaller, mostly irregular, galaxies that cluster around the two giants. The Large, 179,000 LY away, and Small, 210,000 LY away, Magellanic Clouds are satellites of the Milky Way, while the SagDEG is a dwarf erratic galaxy in the process of colliding with our own. Globular star clusters populate the galaxy's halo, and are concentrated near the galactic core. There are also migrating globular clusters located between the galaxies in intergalactic space.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 07, 2013, 09:53:45 AM
Finished updating the Game Maps and Pre-Game Setup Docs.

Up next is the Nation Creation Doc.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Haegan2005 on February 09, 2013, 02:38:53 PM
NP(Nation Points) are now PGP(pregame points)?  You expanded this doc a lot.
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 09, 2013, 06:10:25 PM
NP(Nation Points) are now PGP(pregame points)?  You expanded this doc a lot.

Yep, sure did. There was a very real need to bring the docs up to dat with what we have.  :)



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 11, 2013, 02:04:24 PM
Over the next couple of posts I will be giving examples of certain design concepts we use in Beyond the Stars!. First up will be examples of Species Creation.  :)

If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.  ;D


The first thing in Power creation you want to do is decide what your species will consist of. Powers can take special abilities and species disadvantages to give themselves special capabilities, reinforce a distinct characteristic, or just to burn or scrounge a few extra species points. Special abilities cost you points, while species disadvantages give you more SPs to spend. The special abilities and species disadvantages are listed in section [3.1] Species Design and are just examples. Players can take these, or think up their own, based on the costs of existing special abilities and species disadvantages. However, if you want a new or modified Advantage or Disadvantage it must be cleared with the GM first. For the list of special abilities and species disads see section [3.1] Species Design.

Example: The United States of Terra:

After Kevin envisions what the Terrans will be like he goes to the special abilities and species disads to pick the ones that will help him realize that vision.

The very first thing he does is to decide how much he wants to spend on biology and this will determine his starting Species Points. He decides that he will not max out all of his techs so spends 70 NPs giving him 700 points in Biology, making his Biology TL 7.0, and so he begins with 50 Species Points to spend on his species creation.

To design his species he must first design their homeworld. He uses Earth as his template but he goes with an Earth that has just a bit more land mass.

For size he picks Terran Type Planet for 0 SP's. Kevin then picks Normal Climate for Temperature. Next up he picks Large Continents for Water coverage. Finally he picks Normal Tectonic Activity for Tectonics. So his planet is described thusly, 656554. See Section [2.1] The Planetary Data for a detailed description of the P-Dat.

In his vision Kevin sees them as normal Humans, biologically speaking. So for Biology/Physiology he picks Dextro-Amino Acid DNA, Standard Earth type. For his Biological Classification he picks Hominidae, Human-like. Finally for Diet type he picks Omnivore.

Next Kevin begins the process of describing his species by picking their Species Abilities. Knowing Humanity's penchant for exploring and colonizing he takes 4 levels in Expansive Colonization Program. This species ability will reduce his cost to colonize new regions and worlds by 20%. In Addition, for a Power that is going to massively expand that is a major help. So he notes Expansive Colonization Program for 20 Species Points in his running talley of Species Points.

Knowing that research will be vital his next species ability is Increased Acetelcoline Output for 5 Species Points.

Knowing that Terrans are great reverse engineers he takes Expert Deductive Reasoning for 5 Species Points.

Knowing that Terrans are also good in the practical application of technology he takes Excellent Practical Application Techniques for 5 Species Points.

Knowing that Terra produced some of the best researchers known he takes Excellent Theoretical Techniques for 5 Species Points.

Knowing that he is going to base the UST on the premise of Earth uniting under the US Constitution he knows that Terran commerce will explode under the deregulation that will entail. So he takes 2 levels of Yankee Capitalists for 10 Species Points.

Knowing that Terra is the epitome of the hard work ethic he takes 2 levels of Hardcore Work Ethic for 10 Species Points.

And last, but certainly not least, Kevin knows that some humans can sell ice water to other humans living in the arctic. So to reflect this fact and its possible effect on aliens he takes 1 level of Have I Got a Deal for You!. This species ability costs him 5 Species Points.

Kevin's running talley of SPs used is 65 SPs. So he realizes that he must take a couple of Species Disadvantages to balance out the total used.

The first disadvantage he decides to take is Free Society. Knowing Earth under the US Constitution would never tolerate any from of draconian government he takes this disad. This disad gives him 5 Species Points.

Knowing Terrans would never sanction a massive amount of taxes takes Taxpayer Revolt! as his next disad. This disad gives him 5 Species Points.

Knowing that humans see how the economy either expands or contracts as a measure of how well their government is taking care of them, Kevin takes The Economy Must Expand! as his final disad. This disad gives him 5 Species Points. This balances out his Species points used in the creation process. So Kevin decides to end his species design at this point. He is satisfied with his design up to this point in the process.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Erik Luken on February 11, 2013, 02:33:38 PM
So how do some of the choices affect gameplay? i.e. DNA and diet?
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 11, 2013, 03:16:44 PM
So how do some of the choices affect gameplay? i.e. DNA and diet?

DNA type affects the colonization costs. BTS! only has Earth as a sample to base our decisions on, so we assume that life will develop at the DNA level similar to ours, Dextro-Amino Acid. However, we let the Player choose to have a Levo-Amino Acid type if he wishes. Since this DNA is oppositely twisted from ours, the plant and animal life that is Levo Twisted provides no nutritional value, but at the same time cannot affect you, AKA, no sickness. So modifies the COL Cost in the formula.  :)

Diet also affects Colonization Costs. Here is an example of one of our more 'rare' diet type: Acetelivorous (10 SP's) Acetelcoline feeders. Available only for races with Resistance is Futile. Benefits at the GM's discretion.  ;D



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Haegan2005 on February 11, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
On the flip side, some species choices are basically fluff, like the bio-classification. Speaking of which, we may want to find animal pics and stuff for the player to choose from. In fact, I will create a spot in the racial table for this tonight. if we use it its there, if not, no coding will be lost on this owie... :D
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 12, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
Today's example is for designing your beginning government and picking the economy type.  :)


The next thing Kevin needs to pick is his economy type and initial taxation levels. Since he is basing his United States of Terra off of the 19th Century US, and not the later version, he takes Free Market Economy and begins with a 30% National Tax Average on his private sector and sets his population taxes at 0%, for an overall tax rate of 30%. See Section [8.3.4] Economy Types, for further details.

The next thing Kevin knows that he must do is design his form of government. Since his entire philosophy is based on the US Constitution his choices for Government are pretty much set in stone.

The first thing he picks is his Initial Government Type. See section [10.1.2] Initial Government Type for greater details. He picks Large Groups to represent the US Congress.

His next choice involves how the ruling government is chosen. Since Large Groups are limited to Appointment, Elections, or Merit he chooses Elections.

The next step Kevin must do is to determine the Benefits and Detriments, see section [10.1.3] Benefits and Detriments for details, his choices have given him. He checks and sees that a Legislature gives him 2 Benefits and 1 Detriment. In Addition, since he chose Elections as the method his government is convened he notes that he automatically has the following Benefits: Loyalty, Stability, and Free Trade.

Next Kevin must determine the random Benefits and Detriments his Legislature has given him. He rolls his Benefits/Detriment for his base Government Type. He rolls a 6 Loyalty, a 3 Command Initiative, and for his Detriment he rolls a 4, Cost Overruns. Ouch! So his starting government statistics are as follows:

A legislature with its members Elected.
+4 to all Governor Loyalty Ratings.
-1 from number of rebelling regions.
+1 WU per world.
+1 to all Formation Commanders Training Levels.
+10% to all Mil Wu & Iuu costs.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: MrAnderson on February 13, 2013, 09:44:39 AM
I'm just wondering, how different will the types of government be from each other? Maybe some traits could be easier/cheaper to get depending on what governmnet type you pick (ex While it IS possible for a democracy to get military police, it'd be much easier for a dictator to do ut.)
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 13, 2013, 11:12:03 AM
I'm just wondering, how different will the types of government be from each other? Maybe some traits could be easier/cheaper to get depending on what governmnet type you pick (ex While it IS possible for a democracy to get military police, it'd be much easier for a dictator to do ut.)

MrAnderson, your government type affects many, many different things that occur in BTS!. In addition, ALL forms of government have both benefits and Detriments. So no one type is a sure lock to victory.  ;)

The best advice I can give concerning your government choice is to have it reflect what you are trying to accomplish with your Power.  ;D



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Þórgrímr on February 13, 2013, 11:21:25 AM
Today's example is for National Advantages and Disadvantages.  :)


The next thing in Power creation you want to do is decide what Advantages and Disadvantages you wish to take. Powers can take Advantages and Disadvantages to give themselves special capabilities, reinforce a distinct characteristic, or just to burn or scrounge a few extra nation points. Advantages cost you points, while Disadvantages give you more points to spend. The Advantages and Disadvantages listed in the National Customization document are just examples. Players can take these, or think up their own, based on the costs of existing Advantages and Disadvantages. However, if you want a new or modified Advantage or Disadvantage it must be cleared with the GM first. For the list of ads and disads see section [5.0] National Customization for greater details.

Example: The United States of Terra:

After Kevin envisions what the Terrans will be like he goes to the ads and disads to pick the ones that will help him realize that vision.

Knowing that population will be critical he decides to take Ginormus Population. So he notes Ginormus Population for 20 Nation Points.

Knowing that he will need to maintain a steady population growth Kevin takes Green Fields. Because he has the Ginormus Population Advantage it will cost him 50 Nation Points.

Knowing Humanity is a stiff-necked lot and not willing to bow to any alien species he takes Fanatical Population for 50 Nation Points.

Also, in keeping with his image of his Power Kevin takes Space Dwellers since he cannot imagine the Terrans not expanding into space and knowing that colonies on other worlds can be quite expensive to build without Space Dwellers and their advantages. So he jots down Space Dwellers for 20 Nation Points.

Knowing that Terra will have to rely on her industry to keep her Military on top Kevin next chooses Heavy Industry for his next Advantage for 5 Nation Points.

Knowing the United States in the 19th Century was a mercantile based nation, and also realizing that a large Military needs to be paid, while not really wishing to have his Militry rebel or disband due to non-payment of salaries, takes High Finance for 5 Nation Points.

Kevin knows that he will be setting up a lot of colonies and outposts so takes To the Stars! to double his Base Infrastructure construction rate in setting up new colonies offworld. This Advantage costs him 10 Nation Points.

Now Kevin must decide if he wishes to take any disadvantages. Disadvantages are not required, but they can cut down on the cost of your advangages. So in keeping with his wanting the UST to resemble a Spacefaring 19th Century America he decides to take some disadvantages.

After the Steel Plague Outbreak before WW3 Kevin knows Terra would never sanction a true AI so takes The Fourth Law as his first disad. This disad gives him 10 Nation Points.

Knowing the fervor over the Stem Cell and Cloning debates, Terra would never allow modification of the God-Given form bestowed to Humanity. So he takes True Species as his next disad. This disad gives him 10 Nation Points.

To the Terrans the nuclear exchange of WW3 nearly caused their extinction, so he has Terra take Nuke Free Zone to show the UST would not use weapons of mass destruction and would look down at any nation that would. This disad gives him 30 Nation points.

Kevin knows that before Humanity united they were very secretive about their military designs and technology. So he takes Not Invented Here for 25 Nation Points.

Knowing most former Terran nations were not open about their scientific secrets Kevin takes Patent Office as his final disadvantage. This disad gives him 5 Nation Points.



Cheers, Thor
Title: Re: Discussions
Post by: Haegan2005 on February 15, 2013, 07:31:49 PM
Gov creation screen is done, spot created in the DB for it, and load code for when the game is loaded is done!

Onto coding the national advantages / disadvantages!