Cargo holds and build time

[Peewee (OP)]

Lanterns take 7.31 years to build.

Code: [Select]

Lantern class Sensor Outpost    22200 tons     1883 Crew     158703 BP      TCS 444  TH 2812  EM 0
6333 km/s     Armour 5-70     Shields 0-0     Sensors 3750/3750/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 3942%    IFR: 54.8%    Maint Capacity 4468 MSP    Max Repair 27000 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

Photonic Drive E0.05 (3)    Power 937.5    Fuel Use 0.5%    Signature 937.5    Armour 0    Exp 0%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 810.8 billion km   (1481 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR675-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 9000     Range 675.0m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR67500-R100 (10%) (1)     GPS 900000     Range 67,500.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR13500-R20 (10%) (1)     GPS 180000     Range 13,500.0m km    Resolution 20
Active Search Sensor MR135000-R200 (10%) (1)     GPS 1800000     Range 135,000.0m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor MR337500-R500 (10%) <M> (1)     GPS 4500000     Range 337,500.0m km    Resolution 500
Thermal Sensor TH50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Flashlights, on the other hand, take only 0.20 years to build.

Code: [Select]

Flashlight class Sensor Outpost    1027050 tons     2903 Crew     164948 BP      TCS 20541  TH 2812  EM 0
136 km/s     Armour 5-906     Shields 0-0     Sensors 3750/3750/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 8438653%    IFR: 117203.5%    Maint Capacity 100 MSP    Max Repair 27000 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years
Cargo 1000000    

Photonic Drive E0.05 (3)    Power 937.5    Fuel Use 0.5%    Signature 937.5    Armour 0    Exp 0%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 17.4 billion km   (1481 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR675-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 9000     Range 675.0m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR67500-R100 (10%) (1)     GPS 900000     Range 67,500.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR13500-R20 (10%) (1)     GPS 180000     Range 13,500.0m km    Resolution 20
Active Search Sensor MR135000-R200 (10%) (1)     GPS 1800000     Range 135,000.0m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor MR337500-R500 (10%) <M> (1)     GPS 4500000     Range 337,500.0m km    Resolution 500
Thermal Sensor TH50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
How on earth does adding a million or so tons to the blueprints make the shipyard workers build (essentially the same ship) over 30 times faster?!

On a bit of a tangent, why are cargo bays always full? They ought to take up very little mass (as they are, well, empty spaces).
That would make ship speed vary on 'up' and 'down' trips, as well as making it more worthwhile to only partially load freighters.

Edit: By the way, Hi everyone! I'm Peewee. I come from the land of Bay12.

[ZimRathbone]

Lanterns take 7.31 years to build.

Code: [Select]

Lantern class Sensor Outpost    22200 tons     1883 Crew     158703 BP      TCS 444  TH 2812  EM 0
6333 km/s     Armour 5-70     Shields 0-0     Sensors 3750/3750/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 3942%    IFR: 54.8%    Maint Capacity 4468 MSP    Max Repair 27000 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

Photonic Drive E0.05 (3)    Power 937.5    Fuel Use 0.5%    Signature 937.5    Armour 0    Exp 0%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 810.8 billion km   (1481 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR675-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 9000     Range 675.0m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR67500-R100 (10%) (1)     GPS 900000     Range 67,500.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR13500-R20 (10%) (1)     GPS 180000     Range 13,500.0m km    Resolution 20
Active Search Sensor MR135000-R200 (10%) (1)     GPS 1800000     Range 135,000.0m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor MR337500-R500 (10%) <M> (1)     GPS 4500000     Range 337,500.0m km    Resolution 500
Thermal Sensor TH50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Flashlights, on the other hand, take only 0.20 years to build.

Code: [Select]

Flashlight class Sensor Outpost    1027050 tons     2903 Crew     164948 BP      TCS 20541  TH 2812  EM 0
136 km/s     Armour 5-906     Shields 0-0     Sensors 3750/3750/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 8438653%    IFR: 117203.5%    Maint Capacity 100 MSP    Max Repair 27000 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years
Cargo 1000000    

Photonic Drive E0.05 (3)    Power 937.5    Fuel Use 0.5%    Signature 937.5    Armour 0    Exp 0%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 17.4 billion km   (1481 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR675-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 9000     Range 675.0m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR67500-R100 (10%) (1)     GPS 900000     Range 67,500.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR13500-R20 (10%) (1)     GPS 180000     Range 13,500.0m km    Resolution 20
Active Search Sensor MR135000-R200 (10%) (1)     GPS 1800000     Range 135,000.0m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor MR337500-R500 (10%) <M> (1)     GPS 4500000     Range 337,500.0m km    Resolution 500
Thermal Sensor TH50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km
EM Detection Sensor EM50-3750 (10%) <M> (1)     Sensitivity 3750     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3750m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
How on earth does adding a million or so tons to the blueprints make the shipyard workers build (essentially the same ship) over 30 times faster?!

On a bit of a tangent, why are cargo bays always full? They ought to take up very little mass (as they are, well, empty spaces).
That would make ship speed vary on 'up' and 'down' trips, as well as making it more worthwhile to only partially load freighters.

Edit: By the way, Hi everyone! I'm Peewee. I come from the land of Bay12.

Ceud mìle fàilte Peewee. (a hundred thousand welcomes!)

Regarding the Build Speed, this looks like a bug (I just confirmed the same effect when adding 200 cargo holds to an existing design (but not 100)) - report it in the bugs topic.

As to the ship speed, I believe that the appropiate technobable indicates that in the TransNewtonian mechanics, speed is inversely proportional to displacement (not mass as in conventional Newtonian mechanics), therefore obviating the need to constantly recalculate a vessels speed every time it changes cargo (or fires a missile!) which is why ships are built in terms of Hull Spaces

[sloanjh]

Also, please post new user questions (like this) in The Academy.  This is discussed in the "Where should I post?" FAQ on the FAQ board.

Thanks, and Have Fun!
John

[Peewee (OP)]

But I was asking about those nutty shipyard mechanics  

[UnLimiTeD]

Your second design has no engineering spaces while the first has?
Theres a discrepancy in maint capacity.
Still weird, seeing how the second one is rightfully more expensive.
What do you need that huge sensors for anyways?

[Peewee (OP)]

MC goes down when size goes up. Try it yourself to see what I mean.

The second one IS (slightly) more expensive because of the cargo holds.
It also takes a LOT less time to build.

Why do I need big, shiny, expensive sensors?
For sensing things!
For a VERY early warning system!
For instant knowledge of EVERY wreck in a system!
Actually, it's mostly just so I don't have to put active sensors on any other ships in my 300-strong fleet. I tend to launch rather large missiles at anything that comes within about a billion kilometers of the lantern.

[Steve Walmsley]

How on earth does adding a million or so tons to the blueprints make the shipyard workers build (essentially the same ship) over 30 times faster?!

The first ship is 22,000 tons so it can be built in a shipyard with a capacity of 22,000 tons. The second ship is over a million tons so it needs a shipyard fifty times larger and therefore has fifty times more workers, which means it can be built a lot faster.

Steve

[Journier]

I assume the 2nd ship is much cheaper per ton to build as well with cargo bays.

I always think of the ships by density, a ship crammed with the highest cost sensors in the game and barely any hull surrounded them with bare crew quarters is incredibly costly to build.

a ship that is 50x larger with those same sensors but lots of cargo space isnt very dense and isnt very expensive per ton, hence a large shipyard will build that very quickly.

[Father Tim]

On a bit of a tangent, why are cargo bays always full?

They're not.

They ought to take up very little mass (as they are, well, empty spaces).

They do.

That would make ship speed vary on 'up' and 'down' trips.

That it would, which is why it doesn't work the way you're suggesting.  A ship's max speed is a ship's max speed, and it doesn't change short of refit.  Feel free to operate your freighters at a reduced speed whne they're loaded, to simulate the extra drag of the cargo.

[James Patten]

The "tonnage" is less about mass and more about displacement size.  A cargo hold means the ship is now larger, which means a larger sized ship the engines have to push through trans-newtonian space.  There's more "resistance" from the larger size.

[UnLimiTeD]

Would it be possible to make "Cargo Claps" to strap that automine onto the ship?^^

[sloanjh]

Would it be possible to make "Cargo Claps" to strap that automine onto the ship?^^

Would it be possible?  Yes.

Will Steve do it?  Probably not.  Three reasons:

1)  If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and cargo isn't broken.
2)  This would signficantly change game play balance, probably in a game-breaking way.  By doing this, you'd essentially turn everything into a tug.  This would also make micromanagement worse, since you'd have to tell the code how many automines to attach.
3)  This would require significant change to the code, for questionable gain.  Ships would no longer have a fixed size (for calculating max speed, jumping, active sensor cross section, etc.), so the code would need to be touched in a LOT of places.

Note that my intent here it to point out a general principle of Aurora's design - a lot of the things that make accomplishing tasks (like colonizing or cargo hauling) are there intentionally, to force you to make choices.  So "enhancements" that take away these limitations are usually not going to make it into the game, even if they allow you to do something that would arguably be possible in the "real world".

John

John

[Shadow]

How on earth does adding a million or so tons to the blueprints make the shipyard workers build (essentially the same ship) over 30 times faster?!

The first ship is 22,000 tons so it can be built in a shipyard with a capacity of 22,000 tons. The second ship is over a million tons so it needs a shipyard fifty times larger and therefore has fifty times more workers, which means it can be built a lot faster.

Steve

Hmm. Does that mean ships of a certain tonnage would also be built much faster in shipyards with larger capacities?

[sloanjh]

How on earth does adding a million or so tons to the blueprints make the shipyard workers build (essentially the same ship) over 30 times faster?!

The first ship is 22,000 tons so it can be built in a shipyard with a capacity of 22,000 tons. The second ship is over a million tons so it needs a shipyard fifty times larger and therefore has fifty times more workers, which means it can be built a lot faster.

Steve

Hmm. Does that mean ships of a certain tonnage would also be built much faster in shipyards with larger capacities?

There is a thread somewhere* (probably in mechanics) where Steve introduces the mechanism that larger SY have higher build rates.  Your best bet is probably to find and read this thread.

John

*unless it's gone to bit heaven because this was introduced so long ago (several years) that the post was lost during one of the infrequent data losses on the board.

[praguepride]

The key is that cargo holds cost a lot in HS, but very little in actual build time (how hard is it to build a big empty box?). So for incredibly large cargo holds, it'd make sense that they'd be easier to build.