Final Fire PD vs point blank missiles

[Decimator (OP)]

I encountered something interesting last night.  Some enemy ships squadron transited a gate I was defending, then began firing missiles at my ships(my guys are pretty much fresh off the shipyards, so their grade bonus is quite poor and they took a long time to begin firing).  However, the final fire point defense on my ships was not even attempting to fire at the incoming missiles.  These missiles impacted the same 5 seconds they were fired, so I'm curious if final fire does not function when the missiles impact so soon.

[waresky]

I encountered something interesting last night.  Some enemy ships squadron transited a gate I was defending, then began firing missiles at my ships(my guys are pretty much fresh off the shipyards, so their grade bonus is quite poor and they took a long time to begin firing).  However, the final fire point defense on my ships was not even attempting to fire at the incoming missiles.  These missiles impacted the same 5 seconds they were fired, so I'm curious if final fire does not function when the missiles impact so soon.

Mine same:)..from Ages.

"hmm..ehy Gunny,what it is?..an incoming missile?"-----"naaa..seems as a Coffee time ding.."

My guys r very dummy:D

[Father Tim]

I encountered something interesting last night.  Some enemy ships squadron transited a gate I was defending, then began firing missiles at my ships(my guys are pretty much fresh off the shipyards, so their grade bonus is quite poor and they took a long time to begin firing).  However, the final fire point defense on my ships was not even attempting to fire at the incoming missiles.  These missiles impacted the same 5 seconds they were fired, so I'm curious if final fire does not function when the missiles impact so soon.

Yes, but that's an old bug Steve said he fixed a couple versions ago.

[Decimator (OP)]

This is 5.02, so it's apparently still around.  Or I did something wrong, which is also fairly likely.  Let's assume it's my fault; what could I have done to make the pd in final fire mode not work?

[Beersatron]

This is 5.02, so it's apparently still around.  Or I did something wrong, which is also fairly likely.  Let's assume it's my fault; what could I have done to make the pd in final fire mode not work?

Maybe the range associated to the FC? i.e. what is the range of the FC and what was the value you entered when setting the final fire mode?

[Charlie Beeler]

What's your ship design look like?

What are the ranges involved?

What active sensors are online and at what resolution?

[Decimator (OP)]

Fire control has significant range, maximum for my tech.  If the actual number matters, I can get that later.  Fire control speed and turret speed are both 20,000km/s.  Enemy missiles are 30,000km/s.  PD on these exact ships worked and destroyed missiles in prior engagements.  Final Fire range was set to 2, as the gauss cannons on the ships only had a range of 20,000 km.  Active sensors were maximum range for my tech, and resolution zero.  

Engagement range was point blank, decreasing to literal zero as it continued.  Missiles impacted the same 5 second increment they were fired in.  At no point in the engagement was a missile contact visible.

[Beersatron]

Possibly one to post in the bug thread as it sounds like you had the settings down correctly.

[Charlie Beeler]

This is an issue with the sequence of play.  Missile movement(and final defensive fire) comes before sensors update at the end of the movement phase.  Unless Steve has altered the events sequence.

http://aurora.pentarch.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1442&p=12684&hilit=sequence+of+play#p12684

[Bobarossa]

That thread seems to put movement in a phase before the weapons fire.  I would assume that means the missiles can't move and hit their target until the next subpulse.  Of course I am also assuming the code only checks for hits during movement.

[Charlie Beeler]

That thread seems to put movement in a phase before the weapons fire.  I would assume that means the missiles can't move and hit their target until the next subpulse.  Of course I am also assuming the code only checks for hits during movement.

Technically that's correct.

Missiles launch during the weapons fire phase which is after the movement phase were the sensors are updated.  During the next pulse, the missiles move before the sensors update thus detonating without final defensive fire since the PD requires the sensor update.

Steve,  perhaps an additional sensor update is needed after missile launch during the weapons phase.  Not sure if I really want this since I'm ruthlessly expoiting this for fighter engaging ships with missiles.   (ie calc'ing 5 second missile flight and setting fighters to attack from that range)

[Steve Walmsley]

I encountered something interesting last night.  Some enemy ships squadron transited a gate I was defending, then began firing missiles at my ships(my guys are pretty much fresh off the shipyards, so their grade bonus is quite poor and they took a long time to begin firing).  However, the final fire point defense on my ships was not even attempting to fire at the incoming missiles.  These missiles impacted the same 5 seconds they were fired, so I'm curious if final fire does not function when the missiles impact so soon.

It's because missile launch is after the sensor phase and movement is before the sensor phase. The missiles are launched and travel to the target before the target's sensor have time to detect them. While this is a side-effect of the sequence of play, I haven't decided whether it is a bug or a feature . If the missile launching ship is so close, it might be reasonable to assume the defending ship wouldn't have time to react.

Steve

[Decimator (OP)]

Well, you could probably assume that said missiles would spend some time accelerating, so the target should still have time to react.  They certainly wouldn't get a tracking time bonus though.

Either way, it didn't matter much in this case, since the target ship was a 340 kiloton dreadnought with 40 layers of armor.  When that thing's green crew finally got their act together, the enemy ships swiftly assumed the appearance of cheese graters.

I'll be sad when I have to retire that ship....