First Military designs

[dgibso29 (OP)]

First of all, Hi! I'm Admiral.  .  .  though just about everyone on the internet tends to call me Dan.   I picked up Aurora about a week ago and realized immediately that I found that game I had been looking for - I grew up on Homeworld, bounced over to Sins of a Solar Empire and, recently, Sword of the Stars(Excellent game), and ended up here.   Now I can't go an hour without planning out my new fleet or my next expansion.  


Anyway.   I decided that I would start off with missile-armed gunboats, supported by dedicated gunboat tenders.   I'm still very new to ship design in Aurora, and I would love for you guys to tear mine apart (don't be nice here!)

Here goes.  

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Long Beach class Support Vessel    9,600 tons     558 Crew     978.4 BP      TCS 192  TH 125  EM 0
651 km/s     Armour 1-40     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.95 Years     MSP 1064    AFR 737%    IFR 10.2%    1YR 108    5YR 1625    Max Repair 20.5 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2500 tons     Magazine 786    

Nuclear Thermal Engine E10 (5)    Power 25    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 25    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 93.7 billion km   (1666 days at full power)

CIWS-50 (2x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 5000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Sparrow Anti-ship  Mk. 1 (196)  Speed: 9,400 km/s   End: 88.9m    Range: 50.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 31 / 18 / 9

Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Condor class Missile Boat    750 tons     54 Crew     92 BP      TCS 15  TH 50  EM 0
3333 km/s     Armour 1-7     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 9.78 Years     MSP 38    AFR 9%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 11    Max Repair 20 MSP
Magazine 20    

GB Nuclear Thermal Engine E90 (1)    Power 50    Fuel Use 900%    Signature 50    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 2.7 billion km   (9 days at full power)

Size 4 Box Launcher (5)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC30-R100 (1)     Range 30.0m km    Resolution 100
Sparrow Anti-ship  Mk. 1 (5)  Speed: 9,400 km/s   End: 88.9m    Range: 50.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 31 / 18 / 9

Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

In addition, they are to be supported by:

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Pegasus class Tanker    7,300 tons     418 Crew     1193.5 BP      TCS 146  TH 50  EM 0
342 km/s     Armour 1-33     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 0
Maint Life 15.89 Years     MSP 1204    AFR 213%    IFR 3%    1YR 9    5YR 135    Max Repair 20.5 MSP

Nuclear Thermal Engine E10 (2)    Power 25    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 25    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 5,000,000 Litres    Range 1231.2 billion km   (41666 days at full power)

CIWS-50 (2x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 5000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

However, I am not too sure how to correctly design a collier.  This is absolutely huge, and I just realized that is HUGE magazine, but, nonetheless.

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Kingston class Collier    33,650 tons     1073 Crew     3756.9999 BP      TCS 673  TH 50  EM 0
74 km/s     Armour 1-92     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.7 Years     MSP 2279    AFR 2264%    IFR 31.5%    1YR 448    5YR 6716    Max Repair 20.5 MSP
Magazine 7860    

Nuclear Thermal Engine E10 (2)    Power 25    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 25    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 13.3 billion km   (2083 days at full power)

CIWS-50 (2x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 5000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Sparrow Anti-ship  Mk. 1 (1965)  Speed: 9,400 km/s   End: 88.9m    Range: 50.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 31 / 18 / 9

Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Any tips here would be excellent!

Thanks!

[Erik L]

Well, first off your speeds are painfully low. Most people don't make GB sized ships until they can get better speeds. You want them to be able to zip in, drop their load, zip out.

You've got a big difference in scanner range/missile range. You won't be able to see anything past 10 million km. Your missiles have an effective range of 30 million km (from the fire control).

The tender can only carry 3, and you end up with 250 tons wasted hangar space. Either build up to 3000 tons and drop in a 4th GB or redesign the GB. The collier is probably best left behind. You've got enough missiles on the tender for 13 reloads (and change). At a 30 minute recycle, you probably won't get more than 1, maybe 2 salvos off.

At the tech you are showing, your best bet is to skip the GB and go with a missile ship. Either way, more engines.

[HaliRyan]

The things the person above me said are all very true, especially the more engines bit. Even with the Nuclear Pulse Engines you probably want a speed of at least 2000 km/s, or else you'll spend years getting anywhere. Remember, space is BIG.

The missile gunboats could also use being split into two types. A 'leader' class with a reduced number of launchers and a better sensor, and the remainder with no sensor but a large number of launchers. Remember to match your fire control range to your sensor range. Also, your missiles have a huge endurance/range, but are very slow. I'd keep the WH strength of 4, but swap the missile fuel for more engine power until you've balanced it to have roughly the same range as your missile fire control (slightly over the fire control range in fact, just for situations where you're running an enemy down). Remember that a missile's accuracy is largely dependent on its speed.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Okay, so, I need a tender that can make at least 2500 km/s flank speed, if not more.  I need a Command gunboat, of sorts.  Is the tanker a decent design?

Secondly, if I were to design a missile ship, what kind of armament should I be talking? My thought would be (I have NO idea the tonnage this would entail, just a thought) 40-80 XO mounted missiles (box launchers) and maybe. . . 20? Internal? More, less? What kind of speed? How do I set up an AMM system? Is such a system automated? (Not been in combat yet. ) How many CIWS? Any other tips?


Another question - Should I arm my survey ships? CIWS only? Or maybe a few missile launchers?

Thank you guys for the feedback so far.  When I get home I will work on my designs and reply a bit more in-depth.


On unrelated question: Aurora crashes when I go to System Information (F9).  It gives me several "Error 76" "Path not found planetjpeg\ha3. jpg. " Just a slight issue.  Thanks!

[HaliRyan]

The tanker also needs a lot more speed. You should also consider switching it to commercial engines, that way it will be classed as a commercial vessel and require no maintenance (no point not having it as commercial, since it's not carrying guns or large sensors anyway). Also it doesn't need as much speed as the military vessels, but it does need enough that it can come meet them to refuel them without you waiting an unreasonable amount of time. That's a subjective thing of course, but there's no 'right' answer for that one imo.

For a missile ship you will generally want it to be able to use your jump tenders, so that provides a limit to how large you can let them get. Box launchers vs internal is down to design philosophy; personally I use all internal launchers on anything larger than a FAC so that I don't have to go home to reload, but there's a good argument for using a mix as well. Your ideal speed is "slightly faster than the other guy" and so is largely dependent on who/what you're fighting, but I would make sure it's at least as fast as anything else you have outside of FACs and fighters.

A typical AMM ship design will have 10-20 size 1 launchers, a speed to keep up with the rest of your fleet (maybe a little faster so it can move out in front), a sensor and MFC pair that can hit enemy missiles from at least 1 million km away, and a large enough magazine space to fire continually for 3-5 minutes. You can configure the AMM defense in the combat assignment window (it's fairly intuitive, you'll see), and once set up they automatically target and fire at incoming ordinance with no need to manually open fire. For your AMM you'll want a WH strength of 1, very small amount of fuel (it won't need to travel more than 2 million km generally), a whole lot of speed, and any agility you can spare. Play around with the agility/engine balance until you find what you feel is a good mix.

CIWS are usually used only on commercial (since they don't cause it to be labeled a military ship) and high-value military vessels like fleet sensor/command ships and carriers. For the main combatants you'll generally be better off saving the space, or else making a non-CIWS beam turret system to use in final defensive fire mode so that it can protect the entire task group, not just the mounting ship.

I don't personally arm my survey ships, as I find it makes them more expensive but doesn't actually increase their survivability. Others may feel differently.

As for the crashing issue, I don't think I've ever seen that one before, so I can't offer any advice.

[Atlantia]

On unrelated question: Aurora crashes when I go to System Information (F9).  It gives me several "Error 76" "Path not found planetjpeg\ha3. jpg. " Just a slight issue.  Thanks!

Uhm, I believe I had this error earlier. Somewhere in your files are a few folders with various graphics, and they did not make it into the Aurora program folder. You just have to copy them over.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

You guys are giving me an awesome amount of feedback.  Thank you!

I actually am starting a new game, now that I've spent a week figuring out what I am doing.  I'm going to post my first military design in a bit, to see what you guys think.


What are your thoughts of Civie ships? I had a 25k capacity freighter, as well as a 75k capacity.  I couldn't tell you the speeds, but they were sufficient for Earth/Mars and Earth/Titan runs.  Also had a passenger design but it was not used by any of my lines.

[HaliRyan]

You guys are giving me an awesome amount of feedback.  Thank you!

 

What are your thoughts of Civie ships?

Could you be more specific?

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Well for one I meant to say 'on' not 'of,' for what difference it makes.

I just mean what do you guys feel is a good design for, say, a regular civilian freighter, or a colony ship.  Just to hear what you have to say.

ALSO.  Asteroid Miners: How should I design them? My design was just 1 module and that was essentially the entire ship.

[HaliRyan]

Well, for freighters there's not really much to them. I typically make sure their number of cargo holds is a multiple of 5 so that they can transport whole numbers of installations rather than pieces, and give them at least a 1:5 ratio of cargo handling systems so they don't spend all their time loading/unloading. I typically try to keep their speeds at around 1000 km/s per level of engine tech. But the thing is, all that is really dependent on what you want it to do. If you're going for moving installations long distances you'll want to put more emphasis on speed than on cargo handling, compared to moving installations between earth and mars where cargo handling will often give a larger benefit than increased speed. Or if you're using it to haul minerals it won't matter if your cargo holds are a multiple of 5, so you may end up with a speedy, fast-loading ship with less cargo space.

For asteroid miners I can't offer you any advice, I've never used them.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Good, then I've been doing it right.   Hard to go wrong though, I suppose, with freighters. 


Anyway.  .  .  I let it auto assign tech in my new game, and I was given Ion engines! Here's my missile ship.   What's wrong with it? (Speed didn't want to go up without broaching 11 tons (my largest yard at the moment. ))

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Mamba class Missile Destroyer    10,900 tons     936 Crew     1717.8 BP      TCS 218  TH 540  EM 0
3302 km/s     Armour 1-43     Shields 0-0     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 30
Maint Life 2.32 Years     MSP 1197    AFR 475%    IFR 6.6%    1YR 303    5YR 4545    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 486    

Ion Engine E9 - EMCOM 75 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 45    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 183.4 billion km   (643 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 4 ASM Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 60
Size 1 AMM Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC86-R100 (1)     Range 86.4m km    Resolution 100
Anti-Missile Fire Control FC9-R1 (1)     Range 9.4m km    Resolution 1
Lance Anti-missile Missile Mk. 1 (240)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 10m    Range: 12m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 100 / 60 / 30
Sparrow Anti-ship Missile Mk. 2 (60)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 81m    Range: 87.5m km   WH: 1    Size: 4    TH: 60 / 36 / 18

Anti-Missile Active Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 9.6m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR96-R100 (1)     GPS 16000     Range 96.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[Erik L]

Good, then I've been doing it right.   Hard to go wrong though, I suppose, with freighters. 


Anyway.  .  .  I let it auto assign tech in my new game, and I was given Ion engines! Here's my missile ship.   What's wrong with it? (Speed didn't want to go up without broaching 11 tons (my largest yard at the moment. ))

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Mamba class Missile Destroyer    10,900 tons     936 Crew     1717.8 BP      TCS 218  TH 540  EM 0
3302 km/s     Armour 1-43     Shields 0-0     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 30
Maint Life 2.32 Years     MSP 1197    AFR 475%    IFR 6.6%    1YR 303    5YR 4545    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 486    

Ion Engine E9 - EMCOM 75 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 45    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 183.4 billion km   (643 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 4 ASM Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 60
Size 1 AMM Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC86-R100 (1)     Range 86.4m km    Resolution 100
Anti-Missile Fire Control FC9-R1 (1)     Range 9.4m km    Resolution 1
Lance Anti-missile Missile Mk. 1 (240)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 10m    Range: 12m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 100 / 60 / 30
Sparrow Anti-ship Missile Mk. 2 (60)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 81m    Range: 87.5m km   WH: 1    Size: 4    TH: 60 / 36 / 18

Anti-Missile Active Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 9.6m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR96-R100 (1)     GPS 16000     Range 96.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


You are probably better off splitting this design into 2 ships. An offensive ship with the size 4 missiles, and escort with the size 1. Mixed role ships tend to not be as good as they sound.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Fair enough.  Done.

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Mamba class Missile Destroyer    7,950 tons     619 Crew     1223.9 BP      TCS 159  TH 540  EM 0
4528 km/s     Armour 1-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 10
Maint Life 2.37 Years     MSP 1096    AFR 505%    IFR 7%    1YR 266    5YR 3988    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 238   

Ion Engine E9 - EMCOM 75 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 45    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 226.4 billion km   (578 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 AMM Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
Missile Fire Control FC86-R100 (1)     Range 86.4m km    Resolution 100
Sparrow Anti-ship Missile Mk. 2 (59)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 81m    Range: 87.5m km   WH: 1    Size: 4    TH: 60 / 36 / 18

Active Search Sensor MR96-R100 (1)     GPS 16000     Range 96.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Cottonmouth class Destroyer Escort    7,350 tons     595 Crew     1174.1 BP      TCS 147  TH 540  EM 0
4897 km/s     Armour 1-33     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 10
Maint Life 2.52 Years     MSP 1100    AFR 432%    IFR 6%    1YR 242    5YR 3624    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 238   

Ion Engine E9 - EMCOM 75 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 45    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 244.9 billion km   (578 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 AMM Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
Anti-Missile Fire Control FC9-R1 (1)     Range 9.4m km    Resolution 1
Lance Anti-missile Missile Mk. 1 (238)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 10m    Range: 12m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 100 / 60 / 30

Anti-Missile Active Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 9.6m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

My next though is to have a Command ship of sorts, in addition to a Collier/Tanker.  I assume a Collier must have Magazine space, not just have missiles in its' cargo? Also, can a single command ship house the sensors for all of the Mamba's?

[Erik L]

Missile design.

Your Sparrow ASM while fast and having long range... is nothing more than a big AMM.

Cut the range down to 50m km or so and put the space into warhead.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Okay, I wasn't sure on that - I was trying to make sure the missile could hit as far as the fire control could see.   Easy fix. 


Any other issues?

Edit:

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Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 18000 km/s    Endurance: 46 minutes   Range: 50.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 1.95
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 180%   3k km/s 60%   5k km/s 36%   10k km/s 18%
More along those lines? Or should I reduce speed in favor of warhead?