Author Topic: C# Aurora Changes Discussion  (Read 441936 times)

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Offline Britich

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1680 on: August 01, 2018, 04:50:26 AM »
I too would like to know the time frame using averages to get a crew to 100%, also as combat takes place and crew is lost and replaced will the percentage go down?

Finally, will the ships in training move around like they do in VB6?
 

Offline sloanjh (OP)

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1681 on: August 01, 2018, 07:37:06 AM »
The new training commands seem a bit off to me from a RP perspective.
Ripping up your fleet structure and reassigning a fleet to a new command seems wrong to issue an order, especially since this means you are effectively training under another CO.

My understanding is that this is actually how the US Navy does it (or at least did it during the cold war); that (non forward-based) ships would train in home waters then deploy overseas.  For example, ships assigned to 6th fleet would train in 2nd fleet's area of responsibility off the east coast, while in the Pacific ships would deploy on "WestPac" (Western Pacific) to 7th fleet after training in 3rd fleet's area.

My understanding of the cycle in those days was 1/3 of the time training up (in home waters), 1/3 of the time deployed, then 1/3 of the time in repair/refit then back to training.  It seems like they've moved things around in the last few years due to the shrinking size of the fleet and increased operational requirements - I read an article recently (in Proceedings, I think) that said that the USN doesn't have the budget to actually train when in home waters.  In terms of the new training rules, this would correspond to sitting in orbit around the base rather than checking the training box.

John
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1682 on: August 01, 2018, 11:56:15 AM »
With the new training structure it would be great to understand what sort of timelines that will mean for getting crew to 100% trained. How many crew points do you need to get 1% training completed?

You need 500 Fleet Training Points for 100% Fleet Training (instant response to movement and firing orders). This is separate to Crew Grade Points.
 

Offline chrislocke2000

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1683 on: August 01, 2018, 12:22:21 PM »
With the new training structure it would be great to understand what sort of timelines that will mean for getting crew to 100% trained. How many crew points do you need to get 1% training completed?

You need 500 Fleet Training Points for 100% Fleet Training (instant response to movement and firing orders). This is separate to Crew Grade Points.

Steve

Thanks for confirming. Just looking at a current game I have going that's 15 years in I have one commodore with a crew training of 275 and one captain with training of 200. Assuming I tier the admin command with the commodore in the general admin top layer and put the captain in the training admin command and that I have fresh crew with 100% morale, 6% crew grade bonus and I can use commanders and below to run the ships am I right in thinking it would take 500 / (200 + (0.1 * 275) * 1 * 1.06) =  2.075 years roughly to fully train the ships? If correct that seems like an awful long time to complete training compared to broader timescales on exploration and construction in the game.


Any thoughts on tweaking total requirements to get training times down to between a year and 18 months or so?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1684 on: August 01, 2018, 03:01:16 PM »
With the new training structure it would be great to understand what sort of timelines that will mean for getting crew to 100% trained. How many crew points do you need to get 1% training completed?

You need 500 Fleet Training Points for 100% Fleet Training (instant response to movement and firing orders). This is separate to Crew Grade Points.

Steve

Thanks for confirming. Just looking at a current game I have going that's 15 years in I have one commodore with a crew training of 275 and one captain with training of 200. Assuming I tier the admin command with the commodore in the general admin top layer and put the captain in the training admin command and that I have fresh crew with 100% morale, 6% crew grade bonus and I can use commanders and below to run the ships am I right in thinking it would take 500 / (200 + (0.1 * 275) * 1 * 1.06) =  2.075 years roughly to fully train the ships? If correct that seems like an awful long time to complete training compared to broader timescales on exploration and construction in the game.

Any thoughts on tweaking total requirements to get training times down to between a year and 18 months or so?

Your calculation is correct, although bear in mind that order delays in C# are also reduced by the fleet reaction bonus and that reaction bonus can be boosted by one or more admin commands as well.

The total training time is similar to VB6 Aurora and it should be an significant achievement for a ship to have a 100% bonus. Also, the low-level fleet training still exists in C#, which adds 30 points + grade bonus per year to all ships, regardless of admin command.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1685 on: August 01, 2018, 04:48:32 PM »
With the new training structure it would be great to understand what sort of timelines that will mean for getting crew to 100% trained. How many crew points do you need to get 1% training completed?

You need 500 Fleet Training Points for 100% Fleet Training (instant response to movement and firing orders). This is separate to Crew Grade Points.

Steve

Thanks for confirming. Just looking at a current game I have going that's 15 years in I have one commodore with a crew training of 275 and one captain with training of 200. Assuming I tier the admin command with the commodore in the general admin top layer and put the captain in the training admin command and that I have fresh crew with 100% morale, 6% crew grade bonus and I can use commanders and below to run the ships am I right in thinking it would take 500 / (200 + (0.1 * 275) * 1 * 1.06) =  2.075 years roughly to fully train the ships? If correct that seems like an awful long time to complete training compared to broader timescales on exploration and construction in the game.

Any thoughts on tweaking total requirements to get training times down to between a year and 18 months or so?

Your calculation is correct, although bear in mind that order delays in C# are also reduced by the fleet reaction bonus and that reaction bonus can be boosted by one or more admin commands as well.

The total training time is similar to VB6 Aurora and it should be an significant achievement for a ship to have a 100% bonus. Also, the low-level fleet training still exists in C#, which adds 30 points + grade bonus per year to all ships, regardless of admin command.

I'd like to put out there that maybe that fleet training to 100% is actually still too fast...
The boggosity of the universe tends towards maximum.
 

Offline Profugo Barbatus

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1686 on: August 01, 2018, 06:44:04 PM »
Yea, I always took it as 100% training being the fleet and the ships are reacting perfectly in sync, they are at absolute peak performance, nothing is out of step at all. Below that, mistakes are occuring due to miscommunication and misunderstanding or simple lack of practice, which affect performance.

Frankly, only needing two years to get to what is practically an elite fleet is pretty impressive. But fair, considering casualties and replacement ships will quickly dilute that pool in prolonged conflicts.
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1687 on: August 02, 2018, 09:47:32 AM »
Does the training quality degrade over time, when a ship is not in active practice?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1688 on: August 02, 2018, 10:10:04 AM »
Does the training quality degrade over time, when a ship is not in active practice?

No, although it will fall if the crew suffers casulties and absorbs replacements. It fact, it slowly increases over time to reflect skill gained from normal activity, rather than the much faster growth from intensive training.

While it would be simple to add a mechanic of falling over time, that adds micromanagement without any real gameplay benefit, plus it is interesting from a roleplay perspective to create elite ships, and that would be diminished if they slowly faded over time.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 12:25:03 PM by Steve Walmsley »
 

Offline OAM47

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1689 on: August 02, 2018, 10:36:23 AM »
Speaking of officers and bonuses and stuff, I really like the changes so far.  Just one question/concern.  Has the number of starting officers/the rate officers are generated been increased to deal with the fact that there are now more positions (XO, science officer, etc) to assign them to? I'm feeling at the existing rate it might be too easy to run out of officers even with only a few ships and such.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1690 on: August 02, 2018, 02:51:04 PM »
The new training commands seem a bit off to me from a RP perspective.
Ripping up your fleet structure and reassigning a fleet to a new command seems wrong to issue an order, especially since this means you are effectively training under another CO.
As sloanjh said it is actually "realistic", even though at first glance it seems counter-intuitive. Most modern militaries work this way, in that there are separate Training and Operational commands. Air Forces especially have Basic training facilities from where pilots move to Training squadrons and eventually to Operational squadrons. With the new and flexible Admin commands and OOB handling, it will be super simple to just click'n'drag a Fleet to be under Training Admin for a year or two, and then drag it back to an Operational Admin.

It also means that it's possible to use an otherwise barren system as "training grounds", ie ship is built on Earth, then flies off to a neighbouring system, joins the Training Admin there that's built on some god-forsaken rock, until deemed operationally fit. I can see myself using such methods with a multi-race Sol start to hide Fleet details and for RP purposes. "Captain, you are ordered to report at the Antares Fleet Training Command in six days!"

I was going to wail about that Planet X addition, since I personally think that the science behind it is too iffy but then I noticed it's an optional thing, so I won't :D More options is always better though. I guess it could be used for a nifty "Aliens in Sol" scenario, where a sentient race has developed on a moon of a Superjovian out there, and only TN tech allows them to interact with humanity.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 02:55:18 PM by Garfunkel »
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1691 on: August 06, 2018, 05:09:25 PM »
Does the training quality degrade over time, when a ship is not in active practice?

No, although it will fall if the crew suffers casulties and absorbs replacements. It fact, it slowly increases over time to reflect skill gained from normal activity, rather than the much faster growth from intensive training.

While it would be simple to add a mechanic of falling over time, that adds micromanagement without any real gameplay benefit, plus it is interesting from a roleplay perspective to create elite ships, and that would be diminished if they slowly faded over time.

I think this mechanic is fine and degrading it seems bit unnecessary and micro heavy. The biggest problem I have is that it removes the reaction time entirely. Given that we also have bonuses from crew grade and officers I think 100% training should only lower it by a certain amount. Still giving crew grade and officers an effect. Also I think that there should always be a slight delay to orders, zero is not a good level in my opinion.
 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1692 on: August 07, 2018, 01:18:28 AM »
I tend to agree that non-zero reaction times are somewhat preferable.
 

Offline chrislocke2000

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1693 on: August 07, 2018, 10:20:49 AM »
I tend to agree that non-zero reaction times are somewhat preferable.

It would be good but don’t think possible from a game play perspective given relative speeds of ships v for example beam weapon ranges. For gauss fighters you could end up never being able to get in range and for longer ranger beams it could be a real nerf as you miss chance for multiple shots.
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #1694 on: August 07, 2018, 10:56:04 AM »
For normal playing I agree it would be too much micro. However, I think degrading crew when mothballed should be a thing...