Author Topic: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!  (Read 1968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Michael Sandy

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 433
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2017, 11:50:45 PM »
I am of mixed opinion of the utility of conventional engined survey vessels.  I suppose if you have a sensor expert and no PP expert, and you want to get the survey started so you can start buying civilian minerals.

But you aren't going to be exploiting the solar system before you have upgraded your conventional industry.

I suppose getting early survey started helps when making strategic decisions like "Do I NEED to develop jump point theory?  Am I going to expand with asteroid mining, in which case developing Asteroid Mining Modules and Tractors means you can expand you mining with just your shipyard production, saving your production for research and more production.  Or do you have a colonizable planet, like the Jovian moons, Mars or Luna, so terraforming (and tractors) is a good idea?

I have experimented with some early start choices, where I figured expanding early shipyard continuously is a good idea, so when I finally get the tech to go out into the galaxy, I can rapidly exploit it and defend myself.  This resulted in my having 3 slipways around 4k tons when I finally got Nuclear Thermal, and two or three waves of survey ships survey the whole solar system.  But then I recall my survey ships and they and the shipyards sit idle until I get jump theory.  My economy would be better with 5000 RP in mining or construction, but it is difficult to go from exploring the system to just sitting around waiting.

By the way, here is a tip:  Make a bunch of empty Task Forces early, with placeholder commanders, and use them to train up survey commanders.  I got survey skills up to 50 and 60 that way, effectively doubling my survey effectiveness.  Because that +60 Fleet HQ survey commander boosts everybody in the system.  Also, training the logistics officers means you need less cargo handling systems for the same loading time.
 

Offline Drgong

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1122
  • Thanked: 21 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2017, 04:38:09 PM »
Here is a very low tech Patrol/FAC

Code: [Select]
SDB-M2 class Fast Patrol Craft    800 tons     35 Crew     86.5 BP      TCS 16  TH 40  EM 0
2500 km/s     Armour 1-7     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 3
Maint Life 17.67 Years     MSP 68    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 20 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 0   

Bae Technology 40 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 40    Fuel Use 85.5%    Signature 40    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 30 000 Litres    Range 7.9 billion km   (36 days at full power)

Topham-Priest R1.5/C1 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 15 000km     TS: 2500 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1.5    ROF 15        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Landreth-Buote Fire Control S01.5 15-4000 (1)    Max Range: 30 000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     67 33 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Honda Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1.2 (1)     Total Power Output 1.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Vanacker-Lowery Systems Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (1)     GPS 17     Range 1 000k km    MCR 109k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Check out or Join my Community Game
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=235.0
Also check out my stories, including Interactive tales.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=239.0
 

Offline Michael Sandy

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 433
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 10:20:22 PM »
So my latest game, I got a EW 60 scientist early, so I am thinking of going mesons, but I think I will go with 70% engine commercial engined beam ships, on the theory that versus mesons, you want big cheap systems that are hard to damage.  Yeah, they would have huge sensor footprints, but they would be designed to fair well against someone with the same technology.  But I am putting a higher priority into turrets than into the individual beam techs, so I will be able to exploit other beam weapons.

I would call something with a 1 month deployment time a planetary defense craft, not a patrol craft.  It is designed to be tied to a maintenance base with a population.  Well, you have an engineering bay, so it can defend colonies that haven't gotten maintenance bases yet.  You might consider a variant without an engineering bay, for just that much more speed performance, but that would limit its deployment options to more vital colonies.

To me, a 'patrol craft' is one that can picket a forward location.  Something which can be deployed for a year, preferably multiple years.  I suppose it can do its job patrolling a colony pretty well.

I am conflicted about the res 1 sensor. I just don't see you shooting down many missiles without a turret bonus to tracking speed.  I build fighter sized meson PDCs to get the benefit of fighter beam fire controls.  But it is really hard to stick a turret on a mobile fighter early on.  But at least you can clear out buoys with it, and if something does jump on you, you will be able to say what killed you, which is a big part of the job of a patrol ship.

If it is meant more as an anti-ship role than an anti-missile role, it should have a longer, broader resolution sensor.

Odd choice in powerplant size too, but overall, I like it.  It has a low rate of fire because you haven't diverted your PP scientist to capacitor research yet, but versus early missiles, the incoming waves are likely to be far enough apart it won't matter, and it is fairly cheap.  The nuisance is that it ties up a full-sized shipyard to make them.
 

Offline Drgong

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1122
  • Thanked: 21 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2017, 10:50:45 PM »
So my latest game, I got a EW 60 scientist early, so I am thinking of going mesons, but I think I will go with 70% engine commercial engined beam ships, on the theory that versus mesons, you want big cheap systems that are hard to damage.  Yeah, they would have huge sensor footprints, but they would be designed to fair well against someone with the same technology.  But I am putting a higher priority into turrets than into the individual beam techs, so I will be able to exploit other beam weapons.

I would call something with a 1 month deployment time a planetary defense craft, not a patrol craft.  It is designed to be tied to a maintenance base with a population.  Well, you have an engineering bay, so it can defend colonies that haven't gotten maintenance bases yet.  You might consider a variant without an engineering bay, for just that much more speed performance, but that would limit its deployment options to more vital colonies.

To me, a 'patrol craft' is one that can picket a forward location.  Something which can be deployed for a year, preferably multiple years.  I suppose it can do its job patrolling a colony pretty well.

I am conflicted about the res 1 sensor. I just don't see you shooting down many missiles without a turret bonus to tracking speed.  I build fighter sized meson PDCs to get the benefit of fighter beam fire controls.  But it is really hard to stick a turret on a mobile fighter early on.  But at least you can clear out buoys with it, and if something does jump on you, you will be able to say what killed you, which is a big part of the job of a patrol ship.

If it is meant more as an anti-ship role than an anti-missile role, it should have a longer, broader resolution sensor.

Odd choice in powerplant size too, but overall, I like it.  It has a low rate of fire because you haven't diverted your PP scientist to capacitor research yet, but versus early missiles, the incoming waves are likely to be far enough apart it won't matter, and it is fairly cheap.  The nuisance is that it ties up a full-sized shipyard to make them.

Well a few things to recall.

- I always have a "FAC" Shipyard) that never gets over 1000 tons but has a ton of slipways, thus even early on it no problem to produce 20-30 of these craft.   After all, a shipyard at 1000 tons can add a slipway in a year (or less) depending on your research.   In my current game, I produce 20 meson and 20 plasma armed (can be built in the same shipyard) and sent them training. 
-I see these useful in a number of cases.
 1.  If you are doing a multi-faction start, these craft can be built very quickly (as there is not much research in them, and you can have a shipyard that set for FAC production) and with mesons or plasma they can be a threat to any early ship.  Be it commerce raiding, or facing off with other gunboats or in groups taking on thermal/pulse cruisers who are going to be 3000 tons or so.  They are also dirt cheap.
2.  There firepower is short ranged, and they really do not need to see more then a million kilometers.  I learned in multifaction starts a lot of the early combat is over a moon, a rock, or near earth orbit, where a million miles will give you plenty of info, and most what you engage is small.  In the community game, I had patrol craft that scanned at 3000 tons (and 25 million range) and they had a hard time locking on the craft they where fighting.   
3.  I do not leave the Sol system till I get Ion Drives, (and normally, after I build a Ion fleet!) these craft can be built in the 5 years or so in the Nuclear Pulse age and then when Ion engines come around they can be upgraded into two types.

True patrol craft, who use the more powerful Ion engine to add fuel and living space so they can spend years out on some colony being a tripwire
Or a system defense boat that designed to be attached to a colony and is the defense for that colony.   in which case the speed is increased,
Check out or Join my Community Game
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=235.0
Also check out my stories, including Interactive tales.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=239.0
 

Offline lennson

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • Posts: 68
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 01:47:45 AM »
Maybe off topic but I was wondering given the use of mesons has anyone experimented with high power microwave either in place of or along with mesons?

On paper high power microwave seem like a more effective meson cannon since ships have far less electronic hit points than internal hit points, and once a ship is without electronics it wont really be able do much.
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1693
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2017, 09:38:30 PM »
I always put a few microwave carriers into my FAC or beam fighter swarms, but they haven't exactly been combat tested.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Drgong

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1122
  • Thanked: 21 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 02:00:30 PM »
Since the community game is over, I can post what I built as was building.

Here was the missile ship I was prepping for.

Code: [Select]
Cape Town class Cruiser    2 650 tons     79 Crew     316.8 BP      TCS 53  TH 160  EM 0
3018 km/s     Armour 1-17     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 12
Maint Life 2.87 Years     MSP 75    AFR 56%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 13    5YR 201    Max Repair 48 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 72   

Naudé-van Blerk 80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (2)    Power 80    Fuel Use 81%    Signature 80    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 150 000 Litres    Range 12.6 billion km   (48 days at full power)

Vlok Advanced Defence Systems Size 4 Missile Launcher (3)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 120
Uys Aerospace Industries Missile Fire Control FC11-R20 (1)     Range 11.3m km    Resolution 20
Atlas (18)  Speed: 10 000 km/s   End: 18.3m    Range: 11m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 33/20/10

de Klerk Aeronautical Active Search Sensor MR10-R20 (1)     GPS 960     Range 10.7m km    Resolution 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

Doesn't look like much, but it would have been by far the most powerful ship in the game.   
Check out or Join my Community Game
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=235.0
Also check out my stories, including Interactive tales.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=239.0
 

Offline Drgong

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1122
  • Thanked: 21 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 02:06:09 PM »
Code: [Select]
Scipio Africanus class Cruiser    1 600 tons     62 Crew     190 BP      TCS 32  TH 80  EM 0
2500 km/s     Armour 1-12     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 3
Maint Life 5.06 Years     MSP 74    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 5    5YR 72    Max Repair 50 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Spare Berths 0   

Naudé-van Blerk 80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 81%    Signature 80    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 13.9 billion km   (64 days at full power)

Zarif -Yazdi R1.5/C1 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 15 000km     TS: 2500 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1.5    ROF 15        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Roos-van Heerden Foundation Fire Control S04 40-2500 (1)    Max Range: 80 000 km   TS: 2500 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Ansary  Aerospace Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 1.8    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Early Bird Corp Active Search Sensor MR19-R60 (1)     GPS 3000     Range 19.4m km    Resolution 60

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

This was a flawed design.   The sensor is all wrong for what I was facing.   

Code: [Select]
Scipio Africanus B class Cruiser    1 550 tons     69 Crew     156 BP      TCS 31  TH 80  EM 0
2580 km/s     Armour 1-11     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Maint Life 5.78 Years     MSP 63    AFR 19%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 3    5YR 48    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Spare Berths 1   

Naudé-van Blerk 80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 81%    Signature 80    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 14.3 billion km   (64 days at full power)

Zarif -Yazdi R1.5/C1 Meson Cannon (2)    Range 15 000km     TS: 2580 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1.5    ROF 15        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Roos-van Heerden Foundation Fire Control S04 40-2500 (1)    Max Range: 80 000 km   TS: 2500 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Ansary  Aerospace Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 1.8    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Bazargan  Foundation Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 10     Range 500k km    MCR 55k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Built in the same yard, these turned out be rather effective.   

(In the community game you have to spit out ships fast, so in the early game, a 1500 ton ship might be your cruiser.   When the Cape Town came online, the B would have been used as anti-missile corvettes, and the A would become "show the flag" corvettes) 
Check out or Join my Community Game
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=235.0
Also check out my stories, including Interactive tales.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=239.0
 

Offline Michael Sandy

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 433
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 03:05:14 AM »
Telegraph class Recon Fighter    345 tons     10 Crew     44.12 BP      TCS 6.9  TH 13  EM 0
1884 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 34.26 Years     MSP 40    AFR 1%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   

Pinnace Jump Drive J400(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 400 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
NP fighter engine 12.8 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 12.8    Fuel Use 44.88%    Signature 12.8    Exp 8%
Fuel Capacity 30 000 Litres    Range 34.9 billion km   (214 days at full power)

EM 8x1 EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

On getting Jump Drive tech, I quickly researched a pinnace drive and a small sensor.  In retrospect, I should have gone with a size 2 sensor, it would have fit well with the size 400 Jump Drive.

Basically, the idea is to use fighter factories to be the first to exploit a new technology, and hopefully they would give information that informs the followup missions, prioritizing which systems will get surveyed first.

Also, the pinnaces will serve as communications relays.  I suppose I should have given them more crew endurance, mostly to avoid getting pinged with messages about crew whining.
 
The following users thanked this post: Drgong

Offline Drgong

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1122
  • Thanked: 21 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2017, 06:20:46 AM »
Telegraph class Recon Fighter    345 tons     10 Crew     44.12 BP      TCS 6.9  TH 13  EM 0
1884 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 34.26 Years     MSP 40    AFR 1%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   

Pinnace Jump Drive J400(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 400 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
NP fighter engine 12.8 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 12.8    Fuel Use 44.88%    Signature 12.8    Exp 8%
Fuel Capacity 30 000 Litres    Range 34.9 billion km   (214 days at full power)

EM 8x1 EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

On getting Jump Drive tech, I quickly researched a pinnace drive and a small sensor.  In retrospect, I should have gone with a size 2 sensor, it would have fit well with the size 400 Jump Drive.

Basically, the idea is to use fighter factories to be the first to exploit a new technology, and hopefully they would give information that informs the followup missions, prioritizing which systems will get surveyed first.

Also, the pinnaces will serve as communications relays.  I suppose I should have given them more crew endurance, mostly to avoid getting pinged with messages about crew whining.

That is a cool design/concept, thanks for sharing it!
Check out or Join my Community Game
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=235.0
Also check out my stories, including Interactive tales.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?board=239.0
 

Offline Michael Sandy

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 433
  • Thanked: 6 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post some of your earliest conventional start ships!
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2017, 04:36:14 PM »
For uncolonizing the Moon:
Botany Bay class Colony Ship    9 450 tons     155 Crew     465.85 BP      TCS 189  TH 125  EM 0
661 km/s     Armour 1-39     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 31    Max Repair 31.25 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1   
Cryogenic Berths 20000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 50   

Ingram Aero Engines NT 125 EP Commercial Nuclear Thermal Engine (1)    Power 125    Fuel Use 8.84%    Signature 125    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 53.8 billion km   (942 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

10 Cargo handling systems.  I can load and unload in an hour, with a decent logistics officer.  It has way more range than it needs, but I wanted the flexibility.  My little colony ship can outpace the entire efforts of a colony fleet that can load 350,000 people at a time.  So I can keep profiting from them shipping people to the moon without it getting overcrowded.

Similarly:

Terra-Luna Shipping class Freighter    9 400 tons     137 Crew     272.85 BP      TCS 188  TH 125  EM 0
664 km/s     Armour 1-39     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 18    Max Repair 31.25 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1   
Cargo 5000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 50   

Ingram Aero Engines NT 125 EP Commercial Nuclear Thermal Engine (1)    Power 125    Fuel Use 8.84%    Signature 125    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 54.1 billion km   (942 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Designed to shuttle lots of stuff cheaply between Earth and Luna.  I also would use it once I get around to terraforming the Jovian moons, so larger ships could handle the bulk long distance shipping.  Also, it can just go around between the various mining colonies, saving me from having to build and ship mineral packet launchers.

Also used for quick things like "Ship the mats for Spaceport to the Moon, ship lots of construction factories to the Moon to build it".

One of my goals is to get ship to ship tractors, and once Luna is terraformed, move all my shipyards there, and put a dedicated Shipyard bonus commander on it, while Earth will have a wealth/factory/mining commander.  I would just keep a small freighter handy for shipping stuff back and forth when I needed to, and I could use it for other purposes as needed.
 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51