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Topic Summary

Posted by: sublight
« on: October 08, 2016, 11:41:29 PM »

The AMM fleet went down, hard. I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics since I accidentally deleted the notes from that battle and the aurora-wrapper auto-save saves copies from the game state on opening rather than on closing but...

Opening: The Carrier group makes it to the jump point first and tosses the salvager through before turning to do battle.

1st strike:
The fighter-bombers launch from outside of AMM active scanning range.
The beam-fighters follow, and the AMM launches 9-10 missiles on each.
The missile wave is detected and AMM are launched.
1st missile interception: only a couple of successful hits but the beam-fighters make a panicked u-turn.
A couple AMM salvos fail to intercept and the faster Raindrops and hopelessly trail behind, tricking autofire into not launching replacements.
The AMM fleet belatedly reverses course and increases allocation to 1:4. Even so only  ~5 total Raindrops were stopped by AMMs, with a couple more missiles downed by the CIWS on the salvager.
Impacts moderately damage the salvager, destroy the jump-ship, and leave a Breton immobile and scanner-less.
The beam-fighters successfully retreat past detection range before the AMM catch up.

2nd Strike
Same as above. The AMM fleet is less stingy with the AMM this time around and quicker to retreat to prolong the engagement window but also had fewer launchers operating. The two remaining AMM warships and the salvager are targeted, all 'survive' but are left immobile and without scanners.

3rd Strike
I didn't bother to run the mop-up to completion since the AMM fleet had no remaining sensors and no remaining engines at this point.


Honestly the AMM did worse than I was expecting. On paper the standard 1:3 rate should have been enough to destroy ~50% of the incoming Raindrops in the first wave, neglecting salvo misses.
Posted by: lennson
« on: October 08, 2016, 09:39:24 PM »

I was wondering if you considered/tested how the Carrier Fleet would do against the AMM fleet.

I suspect that the AMM fleet would win but maybe I am mistaken.
Posted by: sublight
« on: October 08, 2016, 02:14:52 PM »

Intermission: New Speed Record:

Code: [Select]
Faster! class Salvager    186 900 tons     1728 Crew     5900 BP      TCS 3738  TH 17700  EM 0
4735 km/s     Armour 1-291     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 20    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 5   
Cargo 5000   
Salvager: 3 module(s) capable of salvaging 1500 tons per day

300 EP Commercial Ion Drive 50x0.5 (59)    Power 300    Fuel Use 6.19%    Signature 300    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 320 000 Litres    Range 5.0 billion km   (12 days at full power)

0.4HS Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 7     Range 510k km    MCR 56k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Beep! Beep! Was able to salvage the wreck and return in 125.7 hours, requiring 2210 km/s to intercept with beams
Faster! Can salvage the wreck and return in 104 hours, requiring 2671 km/s to intercept with beams.



Battle Report

Tactics
Off-Topic: show

Fly directly to the Jump point with scanners active until an oppenent enters active scanner range, then launch all fighters. If the fleet thinks they have reached the jump point first then a single scout should make transit to confirm all-clear before the salvager transits and goes for the wreck. Otherwise the fleet should blockade the sol-side of the jump point.


1st Strike:
Detatch one scout to join the laser fighters in an attack run out to 65k km. The Missile fighter squadrons will fly ahead and take up possition just inside maximum engagement range. Once the beam fighters catch up each missile fighter squadron should launch missiles against a single target of 1 kton or larger, prioritizing the rarest targets first and the largest active scanners second. The beam fighters will follow the missiles in on a probing attack until they either anti-missile-missile fire is detected or they take missile/energy damage at which point they should break off and return to the carriers for repairs.


2nd Strike:
Same procedure as 1st strike, but the missile fighters should prioritize anything known to have long-range beam weapons first and undamaged targets second while the beam fighters should only retreat for repair enmass if AMM fire is observed or if over half the fighters have suffered intenal damage or destruction.

Point Defense Contingancy: If over 2/3rds of the 1st strike missiles were destroyed by beam point defense fire then missile fighters should instead follow the beam fighters into point-blank range before launching missiles (approximagly 5 seconds before closing to less than 81k km).


3rd Strike:
Surviving missile fighters should always close to point blank range or until incoming missiles are detected to make their last missile count.


Contingancies:

Fast Salvager:
If a single thermal signature moving at over 4k km/s is observed on DST to transit through the target jump point then two missile fighter squadrons, both scouts, and the beam fighters should fly ahead to blockade the jump point.


Long Range Missile Attack:
If incoming missiles are spotted all fighters should be launched, the carriers should be ordered to fly away from the threat, and the beam fighters and scouts should move into formation 90k km away from the carriers on the threat axis to provide area point defense.

If two of the carriers are destroyed or crippled then the fighters should advance together toward the threat while relying on the scouts' active scanners.



Vs Energy Legion
Off-Topic: show
The Energy Letion soundly thwarted the first missile strike with only six missiles striking home for 57 damage, including 3 points of shock. Two lasers destroyed. The beam fighters attempted to close, but retreated after suffering 4 points of damage and range.

The second strike pushed forward into point blank range with two fighter-bombers premptively before launching. The results were worth it: The previously damaged Tormenta was destroyed, a second crippled by incoming and secondary damage, with the third showing surprisingly light injury.

The beam fighters quickly finished off the crippled Tormenta and then disabled the survivor with two beam fighters lost and a third disabled.

At that point the Cohorts began a futile charge to drive back the beam fighters in hopes of either buying time for the tormenta to perform damage control or else of closing with the slower carriers. No success.



Vs Gatling Fleet
Off-Topic: show
Between the high speed and point defenses of the Gatlin fleet only 6 missiles impacted with 2 bonus shock damage, but all internal components survived. The beam fighters, however, closed unopposed to target range and oppened fire. Each Gatlin was slowly warn down, occasionaly hastened by spectacular secondary explosions if the drive failed.

Unable to catch the following fighters the gatlin fleet pressed on toward the carriers, but was ultimatly destroyed 6.5m km short.



vs FAC Fleet
Off-Topic: show
The fast attack fleet oppened fire for the standard 80m km range, targeting the two largest targets per doctrin (the Salvager and one Carrier)

The carrier beam fightes managed to only destroy 3 missiles in the first wave but all successful targeting attempts on the 2nd wave failed to penitrate the missile armor. The salvager lost three engines and the salvage module, the carrier was reduced to approximatly half speed and lost most of her hanger space.

The FAC fleet then launched a 3rd wave targeting the smaller of the two previously damaged targets: The carrier. This time area defenses managed to destroy four incoming missiles, but the wave was enough to induce structural failure with three missiles to spare. Those final missiles retargeted on a Little-flower Fighter-bomber, and promptly missed.

The battle then appeared to continue according to the FAC plan. The FAC fleet retreated to the jump point, and transited when a wave of 270MSP missile wave was detected. However here their plan suffered complications.

With the salvage module destroyed the Carrier fleet had no reason to risk transit rendering the FAC jump ambush useless and decided to leave the carriers stationed from their prior engagement position while the beam fighters guarded the jump point itself. Worse from the FAC fleets perspective they were lossing the stalemate by controlling the wrong side.

The FAC commander decided their best course of action would be to use their own salvager as a distraction to cover a jump point assault. 5 minutes after they estimated the their salvager had been detected the FAC fleet performed a standard transit to their doom.

The carrier fleet, in accordance of a single squadron per target, had launched one fighter bomber squadron to intercept the salvager and sent the other two from the carrier to the jump point to relieve the picketing beam fighters. The picketing beam fighters had waited until relief before leaving and had only been outbound for 15 seconds when the FAC fleet transited.

The Fighter-bombers on station eached targeted one of the rarest fast attack craft, destroying all transiting FAC-scouts plus a couple Quetzalcoatls. The Beam fighters for their part reversed course and closed to 0k km to take advangate of jump shock blindness, destroying one FAC ever 5-10 seconds. Only a single Allende survived long enough to overcome sensor blindness, but not quite long enough to overcome the fire control delay.


Posted by: sublight
« on: October 08, 2016, 01:55:26 PM »

Ok, new answer: Carrier designs are indeed competitive!

Carrier Fleet (Sublight)

Ion Drive Technology - 10,000 RP
Box Launcher - 10,000 RP
1.68x3.5 Missile Drive - 176 RP
S7 Raindrop - 486 RP (2x engines, 2.25 MSP warhead, 0.103 fuel, 0.657 agility, 0.07 activit R20, 0.51 armor)
Active S3.5-R30 - 560 RP
Active S1.6-R1 - 260 RP
MFC S0.6-R30 - 100 RP
Fire Control S0.7 72-1500 (FTR) - 160 RP
109.2 EP Commercial Ion Drive - 191 RP (26 HS - 0.35 power)
11.4 EP Ion Drive - 54 RP (1 HS - 0.95 power)
S7 Box Launcher - 42 RP
C14 Magazine Exp 10% HTK-3 - 60 RP
10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser - 150 RP
Gas Reactor S0.7-90 RP
--------------------------------------------------
1671 RP Unused

Code: [Select]
Lennon Karma class Fighter    500 tons     3 Crew     96.2 BP      TCS 10  TH 84  EM 0
8400 km/s     Armour 2-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 10    5YR 153    Max Repair 16 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 7   

21 EP Ion Drive (4)    Power 21    Fuel Use 280.76%    Signature 21    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 0.6 billion km   (21 hours at full power)

10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 90 000km     TS: 8400 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Fire Control S00.7 72-1500 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 144 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Gas Reactor S0.7 (1)     Total Power Output 3.15    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Cosmic Liberty class Carrier    7 000 tons     113 Crew     884.375 BP      TCS 140  TH 285  EM 0
2035 km/s     Armour 4-32     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.46 Years     MSP 276    AFR 112%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 35    5YR 529    Max Repair 56 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 24   
Hangar Deck Capacity 3100 tons     Magazine 140   

11.4 EP Ion Drive (25)    Power 11.4    Fuel Use 60.96%    Signature 11.4    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 450 000 Litres    Range 19.0 billion km   (107 days at full power)

S7 Raindrop (20)  Speed: 20 200 km/s   End: 13m    Range: 15.7m km   WH: 9    Size: 7    TH: 101/60/30

Active S3.5-R30 (1)     GPS 1680     Range 24.5m km    Resolution 30

Strike Group
3x Lennon Karma Fighter   Speed: 8400 km/s    Size: 10
5x Little Flower Fighter-bomber   Speed: 9843 km/s    Size: 6.4

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Little Flower class Fighter-bomber    320 tons     2 Crew     56.9 BP      TCS 6.4  TH 63  EM 0
9843 km/s     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2.1
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 64%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 4    5YR 56    Max Repair 10.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months    Spare Berths 4   
Magazine 14   

21 EP Ion Drive (3)    Power 21    Fuel Use 280.76%    Signature 21    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 1.0 billion km   (28 hours at full power)

Size 7 Box Launcher (2)    Missile Size 7    Hangar Reload 52.5 minutes    MF Reload 8.7 hours
MFC S0.6-R30 (1)     Range 12.6m km    Resolution 30
S7 Raindrop (2)  Speed: 20 200 km/s   End: 13m    Range: 15.7m km   WH: 9    Size: 7    TH: 101/60/30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Temple Sunrise class Salvager    21 300 tons     162 Crew     508.68 BP      TCS 426  TH 874  EM 0
2051 km/s     Armour 1-68     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 15    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Salvager: 1 module(s) capable of salvaging 500 tons per day

109.2 EP Commercial Ion Drive (8)    Power 109.2    Fuel Use 3.76%    Signature 109.2    Exp 3%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 22.5 billion km   (126 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Chelsea Morning class Scout    240 tons     6 Crew     59.6 BP      TCS 4.8  TH 41  EM 0
8541 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 8.8 Years     MSP 16    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 26 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   

20.4 EP S1x1.7 Ion Drive (2)    Power 20.4    Fuel Use 261.13%    Signature 20.4    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 20 000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km   (7 days at full power)

Active S1.6-R1 (1)     GPS 26     Range 2.0m km    MCR 222k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Order of Battle:
shipyard expansion                240 BP
2x Chelsea Morning Scouts     127.2 BP
3x Cosmic Liberty Carriers      5104.1 BP 3x[884.38 carrier, 187.24 fuel/ordinance, 573.1 fighters, 56.62 ftr F/O]
1x Temple Sunrise Salvager    528.7 BP

Total: 6000 BP exactly
Posted by: sublight
« on: September 30, 2016, 02:10:48 PM »

Congratulations DIT_grue! The front page has been updated with your accomplishment.

@lennson Yes carriers can be competitive but I think it would be harder than using normal ships. I messed around with fighter/carrier designs earlier but the Gatling fleet limited box-launcher fighters to at most a single reload while the AMM made beam fighters/FAC entries tricky at best.
Posted by: lennson
« on: September 29, 2016, 04:33:04 PM »

I suspect that an improved AMM fleet using Ion drive missiles may be able to win against both my fleet design and the Energy Legion (DIT_grue) considering that both of our designed had significant difficulty against the Demo AMM fleet, which was only using Nuclear Pulse drive missiles.

At the other extreme now that the Demo AMM fleet has been bumped out of the top 3 maybe a fleet using more heavy beam weapons has a shot at winning.

I also wonder if a carrier design is at all competitive.
Posted by: Iranon
« on: September 29, 2016, 12:38:16 PM »

Congratulations! Looking quite similar to my usual first-generation ships... only not quite as cheap (who needs armour if most internals are 0.3 or slower engines and base-tech railguns... armour is expensive and crewmembers are a renewable resource).


Posted by: DIT_grue
« on: September 29, 2016, 07:51:07 AM »

I've been working on this on-and-off since the challenge was posted. It was delayed by far too many clean-sheet redesigns when I was sure I'd finalised what I wanted and set out to produce a pretty version without all the experimental equipment draining my RP allowance, and then when I ran the battles I eventually found I had a lemon. Of course, I'd started with the fleets that looked most threatening, so (other than deciding that - since I could barely scratch it - I wouldn't inclde the Roadrunner after all) I got to the end and was embarrassed to discover that the AMM fleet could walk all over me. Of course I slapped on more armour, but what really turned the trick was remembering that a weapon's Tracking Speed is floored by the racial Fire Control Speed, which rapidly brought on the brainwave that not only could I make my ships even slower, I should buy that tech instead of armour. So here's the Energy Legion, a penny-pincher's dream.


Energy Legion (DIT_grue)

Tech
Theoretical:
Ion Drive Technology: 10,000 RP
Fire Control Speed Rating 4,000 km/s: 8,000 RP

Component List:
0.8HS Active Sensor MR1-R1: 130 RP
0.7HS Active Search Sensor MR0-R1: 110 RP
Fire Control S01 48-4000: 290 RP
Fire Control S02 96-4000: 580 RP
75 EP Commercial Ion Drive 25x0.25: 94 RP
134.4 EP Commercial Ion Drive 28x0.40: 269 RP
135 EP Commercial Ion Drive 25x0.45: 304 RP
15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser: 220 RP
10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser: 150 RP
10cm Railgun V1/C2: 200 RP
1.0HS Gas-Cooled Reactor 4.5power: 140 RP
0.5HS Gas-Cooled Reactor 2.25power: 70 RP


Ships:
Code: [Select]
Architecti class Salvager    16,900 tons     98 Crew     332.775 BP      TCS 338  TH 75  EM 0
221 km/s     Armour 1-58     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 12    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 6   
Cargo 5000   
Salvager: 1 module(s) capable of salvaging 500 tons per day

75 EP Commercial Ion Drive 25x0.25 (1)    Power 75    Fuel Use 1.64%    Signature 75    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 6.5 billion km   (338 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
The Architecti uses a single small fuel tank.
Code: [Select]
Cohort class Frigate    6,000 tons     158 Crew     514.36 BP      TCS 120  TH 269  EM 0
2241 km/s     Armour 4-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 30
Maint Life 2.43 Years     MSP 107    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 25    5YR 374    Max Repair 29 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   

134.4 EP Commercial Ion Drive 28x0.40 (2)    Power 134.4    Fuel Use 5.1%    Signature 134.4    Exp 4%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 5.9 billion km   (30 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V1/C2 (10x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 3-2     RM 1    ROF 10        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 48-4000 (5)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
0.5HS Gas-Cooled Reactor 2.25power (1)     Total Power Output 2.25    Armour 0    Exp 5%
1.0HS Gas-Cooled Reactor 4.5power (4)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

0.8HS Active Sensor MR1-R1 (1)     GPS 13     Range 1.0m km    MCR 111k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
The Cohort class uses two tiny fuel tanks.
Code: [Select]
Tormenta class Frigate    6,000 tons     171 Crew     678.35 BP      TCS 120  TH 270  EM 0
2250 km/s     Armour 4-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 35
Maint Life 2.31 Years     MSP 141    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 36    5YR 537    Max Repair 58 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   

135 EP Commercial Ion Drive 25x0.45 (2)    Power 135    Fuel Use 7.13%    Signature 135    Exp 4%
Fuel Capacity 15,000 Litres    Range 6.3 billion km   (32 days at full power)

10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (8)    Range 180,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S02 96-4000 (2)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
1.0HS Gas-Cooled Reactor 4.5power (6)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 5%

0.7HS Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 12     Range 890k km    MCR 97k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
The Tormenta class uses one small and one tiny fuel tanks.


Order of Battle:
1x Architecti
7x Cohort
3x Tormenta
   Total = 5,993.345 BP


This is intended as a brutally simple, straight-forward fleet. Cohorts provide anti-missile cover, while the Tormenta class is intended to prevent anyone kiting them with beam weapons.

Standard Tactics:
All active sensors turned on, all weapons evenly distributed over available fire controls and configured for Final Defensive Fire at 10,000km. Each class is organised into a separate Task Group.

The Tormentas are set to Follow the Cohorts, both other TGs ordered to proceed to the JP at their own best speed. Use the occupation of the JP (or implacable advance toward it) to force the enemy to commit to battle. If under missile fire, weather it, depending on point defence and armour to survive.

When engaging at energy ranges, try to hold the best possible range as long as possible. (Since the enemy will almost always be faster, they can control the range, but you can still affect the rate at which they change it. The 15cm lasers are intended to outrange most energy weapons, so the typical strategy is to retreat from a charging enemy while firing at maximum rate.) Targetting priorities are for the most urgently threatening ships first - usually the longest-ranged weapon that doesn't appear to be out of ammunition - and sensor ships will be low priority unless the enemy is stupid enough to have a single sensor platform and bring it within killing range. In the balance between killing the enemy as rapidly as possible and avoidance of overkill, the emphasis should be on speed; but units slowed by engine damage may become lower priority than their closer sister-ships.

Special Case: If a fast-salvager type enemy is detected (a single ship with Thermal signature greater than 15,000 and moving at more than 4,500 km/s) then the combat ships should follow it through the jump point as rapidly as possible, taking up position at a waypoint 500,000 km off the JP towards where the wreck was originally located. Once the enemy is detected again they should advance towards it, then set course for the JP at their best speed once it is within 250,000km, and fire all weapons on it as often as possible. (Then hope for good luck: there's better than even odds that it will still escape, thus winning.)



vs Gatling Fleet (lennson)
Off-Topic: show
Once the Energy Legion finally crept into active sensor range, the Gatlings pursued them immediately. When they were within a few hundred thousand kilometres the enemy reversed course, then opened fire as the distance continued to close only slightly more slowly. As they charged forward, their great speed not only gave the enemy few chances to fire unanswered, but limited the accuracy of their fire controls, thus devaluing even the few volleys they had time for. Even so, the beam weapons hit harder as the range shrank, and the first Gatling was destroyed just before reaching its own effective range.

In the moment the fleets intermingled, both unleashed broadsides of railguns, but though the targetted ships writhed under the pounding and vomited copious fountains of air, every single one clung to its assigned position. The Gatlings' guns cycled swiftly, whereas the Legion seemed to be alternating railgun fire with lasers, but both were equally lethal: two Gatlings and one Cohort were reduced to shattered wreckage. Another Cohort fell victim to the next exchange of fire, the consequence of focussed rather than divided targetting; although the Gatlings also lost a ship's worth of weapons at this point, even if this was not externally apparent. By now it was taking multiple firing cycles for the Gatlings to chew through the armour of their target and then take it down, and the Legion was perhaps unlucky - despite their lasers doing a total of 42 damage to the engines of two already badly-damaged ships, neither lost any function at all. As if to compensate, their railgun-equipped ships again underestimated how much it would take to kill the two battered ships (in fact, those two 25HTK engines collectively absorbed at least 63 damage, with one of them still functioning!), and assigned many of their weapons to a fresh target... whereupon a lucky hit slipped through a gap torn in the armour to lodge in the engine, which failed catastrophically and tore the ship apart from the inside.

In short order, two of the three surviving Gatlings were engineless, and thus could be avoided and picked off at leisure; the last was attempting to use its sole remaining railgun to finish a crippled Cohort. Of course, being capable of evasion, it was a much harder target than its fellows, and successfully killed its target - though it lost the weapon at about the same time. Its engine continued to withstand incredible punishment, but the fuel tanks did not prove so resilient and thus it was brought to bay and destroyed despite the Legion being wrong-footed by its abrupt escape attempt. This brought the violence to a conclusion eighty seconds after the first shot was fired.

Evaluation: This confrontation feels like it could probably be analysed fairly well using Lanchester's Square Law - the superiority of the Gatlings' equipment has proven woefully incapable of compensating for the weight of numbers every time I've run the battle with a force designed using this general philosophy.



vs DemoFleet FAC (Sublight)
Off-Topic: show
Waiting on the jump point, the FACs spotted the enemy on thermals at just over four million klicks, rather closer than their doctrine called for at this stage of the battle. One Blanco immediately painted the target while the fleet launched its initial missile strike and backed off until it could empty its magazines. Since all the enemy ships were identically sized, the first two volleys would be targetted on one of each class. The enemy ignored their manoeuvers, advancing steadily on the jump point, so rather than continue retreating out to eighty million kilometres the admiral decided to hold the current distance.

Out of the first wave, two missiles hit, though without breaching the armour. The Legion destroyed every missile in the second volley. Therefore the third launch was against the previously damaged target, though it again failed to score any hits. Once the launchers had cycled for the final time, the FACs charged.

Not surprisingly, enemy missiles still hadn't materialised when they backpedalled off the JP at around 200,000 km. The FACs' speed advantage was relatively slight, and the rate of closure dropped precipitously even as one of the Allendes began to be subjected to occasional energy weapon fire. Even the token armour of that class was sufficient to weather a few weak shots here or there, but shortly before they regained the JP an unusually accurate flurry finally punched through, and by extreme bad luck gutted the ship. It not only lost the sole fire control and half its engines (one of which exploded), but every drop of fuel on board, leaving it immobile and useless. Swiftly redirecting their attention, the Legion's next broadside was guided by equally malevolent luck, a single hit slipping through the armour to scrap the fire control - at least they could not detect this mission kill, and would have to keep pounding a dead ship flying. That didn't last long, however, and only two further broadsides were required to leave it a lifeless wreck, with life pods spilling away from it at the last moment.

As the fleet closed in, the accuracy and hitting power of the enemy's lasers increased and a few lighter but faster-firing weapons also became evident. It took only two volleys for them to convert the third Allende they targetted to a dissipating cloud of gas around drifting rubble, with the fourth and fifth following in immediate sequence. At this point twenty Pulse Punch missiles were launched at the previously-damaged ship, which was believed to be of the laser-armed class, the range finally being short enough that the enemy would have no opportunity to intercept them. Murphy meddled again, three missing despite a projected 96% hit rate, but four hits in the middle of the string did at least produce atmospheric venting. Even as they detonated, yet another missile boat blew apart, but the enemy swiftly assessed the survivors as posing no further threat and began targetting Quetzalcoatls - presumably as the only other class not known to mount a powerful (thus large) active sensor.

If the armour on the Allende class was inadequate, that on the other FACs was pathetic. When even their secondary lasers prove able to wreak havoc in a single shot, they begin spreading their fire very widely rather than maintaining singular focus. The FACs' last offensive capability is wiped away in a single ripple of shots, and - trapped this deep within the enemy's range envelope - the only choice remaining is between destruction and surrender.


Evaluation: If I'd been keeping a closer eye on the event log (or had remembered from my previous attempt) I would have spotted the massive overkill going on, the Legion would have been splitting their fire earlier, and I doubt they'd have gotten even as close as they did. On the other hand, a little carelessness, a little luck; maybe encourage things along by holding the missile strike in order to expend the Allendes as decoys... even one good HPM volley would have gutted the Tormentas, and without them the Cohorts could have been kited at leisure. Of course, the analysis required to identify the critical range for the missiles is entirely trivial, and if they can't be or aren't fired once inside it that should ring very loud alarm bells.



vs DemoFleet AMM (Sublight)
Off-Topic: show
When the AMM fleet arrives, it finds the Energy Legion sitting on the jump point. In accordance with established doctrine, it fires single full volleys at individual ships. Worryingly, it takes four volleys to destroy the first target, and another three for the second - half their ammunition to kill a fifth of the enemy's ships. In the end, they managed to kill 5 ships and cripple one more, which was not quite enough to win on BP value; and without any viable weapons, their slower ships could be chased down and destroyed by the enemy fleet.


Evaluation: Given perfect knowledge of their enemy, they could have killed all the Tormentas at range, then simply closed in to use their missiles as energy weapons - without losing significant portions of each wave to interceptions, I suspect they could at least have won on a half-extant-BP basis.
Posted by: DIT_grue
« on: September 29, 2016, 07:25:14 AM »

I was wondering how fast a salvage ship could be under the tech and cost restrictions. This is what I ended up with,

Code: [Select]
Roadrunner class Salvager    177 650 tons     1667 Crew     5877.6 BP      TCS 3553  TH 18900  EM 0
5319 km/s     Armour 1-281     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 21    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0   
Cargo 5000   
Salvager: 1 module(s) capable of salvaging 500 tons per day

300 EP Commercial Ion Drive (63)    Power 300    Fuel Use 5.3%    Signature 300    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 260 000 Litres    Range 5.0 billion km   (10 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

It's using Ion Drive and fuel efficiency as its tech choices.

Strategy, race to the objective and get back to Sol before hostiles get in range.


It looks like it wins against the straw-men fleets by way of being more than 50% faster than opposing fleets.

(This isn't intended to be a serious challenger.)

Looking at the demo fleets, commercial ships aren't required to have the 6 month deployment, which frees up enough BP to squeeze in two more engines, plus ten thousand fuel each to keep the range over 5 billion km. Of course, since I can be picky about details sometimes, I'll point out that going for the next level of armour instead of fuel efficiency squeaks out another marginal speed improvement even over that. Also, there's exactly enough BP left to slap on a 0.4HS active sensor, because why not? (It doesn't affect the speed at all.)

Code: [Select]
Beep! Beep! class Salvager    181,850 tons     1718 Crew     5938 BP      TCS 3637  TH 19500  EM 0
5361 km/s     Armour 1-285     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 20    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1   
Cargo 5000   
Salvager: 1 module(s) capable of salvaging 500 tons per day

300 EP Commercial Ion Drive 50x0.5 (65)    Power 300    Fuel Use 6.19%    Signature 300    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 310,000 Litres    Range 5.0 billion km   (10 days at full power)

0.4HS Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 7     Range 510k km    MCR 56k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

... Maybe the next player can make it a real tradition by finding a way to top my version. ;)




Oops. That's fixed now.

Here's a link to a database with the "Arena" and 3 fleet designs entered in if you would like to use it,
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1caHHJaeFBkb0d5VmR3djhPd2c
(This is a backup I made before running any of the battles.)

Maybe not needing to setup the arena and enter the existing designs will also encourage more people to participate.

Providing a pre-generated arena is a good idea (my update should be attached), but there's no reason not to take it further: in addition to adding my designs, I spawned the ships, set up PD assignments, etc. - I found that to be a lot more work than just throwing together the map, although admittedly the tech and designs are a larger task by far than either of them. (Also, you forgot to put a gate on the far side of the jump point, which caused me some confused frustration the first time I was waiting for the fast salvager to return so I could ambush it.)

Instructions for adding a new challenger with minimum fuss:
  • In Spacemaster mode, open the System Information (F9) window, select Earth, and click the Create Empire button.
  • Enter the Title and Short Name of your empire, set the Species to Human, and pick themes.
  • Leave the radio-button set to Trans-Newtonian Empire, and check the box to complete the Jump point survey.
  • Set the Starting Tech Points to 570,500 (this is everything up to 6k plus the 24k you have to start).
  • Make sure the boxes to assign those tech points or create systems and ships are NOT checked.
  • Set the starting Shipyards to zero (their capacity is random, and sets the BP for ships in rapid-OOB; it's easier to start at 0 and make sure you don't exceed -6000).
  • Set the starting Research Labs to zero. (Because unassigned labs generate an interrupt during the construction cycle, and who needs that?)

You'll also want to go into the Intelligence window to make sure everyone is using the correct names for other people's ships.
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: July 18, 2016, 11:41:10 PM »

Good idea.
Posted by: lennson
« on: July 18, 2016, 08:27:17 PM »

lennson: It seems you accidentally switched the titles of the FAC and AMM battles.

I'm very new to this game but I'll try to come up with something to enter.

Oops. That's fixed now.

Here's a link to a database with the "Arena" and 3 fleet designs entered in if you would like to use it,
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1caHHJaeFBkb0d5VmR3djhPd2c
(This is a backup I made before running any of the battles.)

Maybe not needing to setup the arena and enter the existing designs will also encourage more people to participate.
Posted by: DaMachinator
« on: July 18, 2016, 01:50:02 PM »

lennson: It seems you accidentally switched the titles of the FAC and AMM battles.

I'm very new to this game but I'll try to come up with something to enter.
Posted by: sublight
« on: July 17, 2016, 06:18:58 PM »

Congratulations to our first Champion! Lennson's beam armed railgun fleet is now at the top of the list.

For future reference it is recommended that the "Use inexperienced fleet penalties" option for Game Details be unchecked to eliminate target delay issues.
Posted by: lennson
« on: July 16, 2016, 09:02:03 PM »

So here is a beam armed fleet that managed to win against the 2 fleets currently on the board.

Tech:
Ion Drive: 10,000
Fire Control Speed Rating 4000 km/s: 8,000

Components:
810 EP Ion Drive: 4050
300 EP Commercial Ion Drive: 750
Gas-Cooled Reactor PB-1:  140
Fire Control S01 24-8000: 290
10cm Railgun V1/C3: 300
Active Search Sensor MR1-R1: 160
Total: 23,690 / 24k

Code: [Select]
Gatling class Destroyer    4 850 tons     155 Crew     739.8 BP      TCS 97  TH 810  EM 0
8350 km/s     Armour 3-25     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 18
Maint Life 1.5 Years     MSP 286    AFR 62%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 142    5YR 2137    Max Repair 405 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   

810 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 810    Fuel Use 74.12%    Signature 810    Exp 13%
Fuel Capacity 150 000 Litres    Range 7.5 billion km   (10 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V1/C3 (6x4)    Range 10 000km     TS: 8350 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 24-8000 (1)    Max Range: 48 000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (4)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 1.3m km    MCR 139k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Lost and Found class Salvager    20 850 tons     142 Crew     510.2 BP      TCS 417  TH 600  EM 0
1438 km/s     Armour 1-67     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 15    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Cargo 5000   
Salvager: 1 module(s) capable of salvaging 500 tons per day

300 EP Commercial Ion Drive (2)    Power 300    Fuel Use 6.19%    Signature 300    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 13.9 billion km   (112 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Design Notes:
Standard fuel tanks on all designs.

Standard Tactics:
The Gatling Destroyers are to chase down any hostile forces detected. If none are detected they are to move to the jump point and hold position.
The salvager is to avoid hostiles if possible and to head towards the objective otherwise.

All railguns on the Gatling Destroyers are on final fire mode for point defense but are to be used offensively if any opposing ships are in range.

Targeting:
Focus fire ships suspected of being armed with beam weapons. Allocate roughly 6 railguns per 1k tons of opposing ship to limit overkill.

Order of Battle:
7x Gatling Destroyer
1x Lost and Found

(I'll use the "offtopic" formatting to hide how the 2 battles went.)

VS DemoFleet AMM (Sublight)
Off-Topic: show


Gatling Fleet:
Sanora detected by deep space scanner. Gatling Destroyers set intercept course at full speed.



AMM Fleet:
Gatling Destroyers detected by active sensors at 7.7m km. Fleet opens fire allocating a volley of 108 AMM on offensitve mode to each hostile contact.
The fleet then ceases fire. Having already launched almost half their ordnance they want to avoid over kill (their magazines are down to 53%).

Gatling Fleet:
Inbound missile volley of 9x 10x Size 1 and 2x 9x Size 1. All weapons readied on final fire point defense.

60 missiles remain after point defense fire however of these only 23 manage to make contact with their target.
Even with all impact focused on a single ship no internal damage is taken.

Just as the first volley intercept the second is picked up on active sensors.

Successive wave proceed to inflict on average less damage,
14 hits
15 hits
24 hits
21 hits
16 hits
18 hits

After no more inbound missiles are detected all ships are fully operational with no internal damage.

AMM Fleet:
Second barrage lunched evenly over all targets as no evidence of any opposing ships having been crippled.
At this point the distance has closed to 3.6m from original 7.7m at detection.

Magazines are now down to 6% (1 round per ship left). Also some ships failed to switch targets during the target sweep resulting in 1
opposing ship being targeted by roughly double the intended amount of missiles (oops).

Gatling Fleet:
New missile barrage detected.

22 hits (2 railguns and fire control down) [ship is now disabled, no way to fire weapons, but ordered to hold formation to try and draw fire]
18 hits
16 hits (1 railgun destroyed and a power plant)
26 hits (1 railgun destroyed and 3 power plants)

[At this point the crew is probably getting seriously worried as the fleet's point defense capability is falling rapidly.]

27 hits (1 railgun destroyed)
22 hits (1 power plant destroyed)
44 hits (Ion Drive destroyed, ship is stranded)

AMM Fleet:
Launch last missiles evenly over the 6 ships still approaching.
As this is the last offensive weaponry the hope is that it disables the opposing ships.

Gatling Fleet:
Detect the opposing 4 AMM ships.
5 second later a missile volley is detected.

At this point the crew is obviously panicking given that all but 1 of their ships have suffered casualties.
Its evident that another round of missiles like the 2 prior would likely be fatal.

39 hits (Ion Drive destroyed, 2nd ship to fall out of formation)

Suddenly no more missiles are detected. Distance between fleets is now less than 500k km.

With that distance closing at ~10k km a second. Some wonder whether the Abasolo could be beam armed.
If so they could very well be rushing to their demise.
However, fleet command points out that they had encountered size 9x salvos in addition to the more abundant size 10x.
Suggesting all ships are missile armed.

With distance approaching 100k km all ships ordered to target the Abasolo and prepare to fire.
(there are a total of 19 operational railgun though some are under powered)

All ships are now in range but the crews are still trying to get ready to fire (guess should have prepared to fire earlier...)
The good news is no opposing beam fire has been encountered.

Shortly after the first railguns fire the AMM fleet surrenders, as they have no weapons and no way to escape.


VS DemoFleet FAC (Sublight)
Off-Topic: show

Gatling fleet:
Gatling Destroyer head towards jump point at full speed as no hostiles detected.

FAC Fleet:
Deep space tractors detects 810 thermal signature of the Gat Destroyers. FAC Fleet heads to intercept and follow at 80m km.

Gatling fleet reaches jump point and holds position.
FAC fleet reaches 80m km of jump point and turns on active scanners detecting ships on jump point.
2 salvos launched each at one of the opposing ships.

Gatling fleet goes to full speed towards the active of Blanco detected by deep space trackers.
FAC fleet goes reverse at full speed but distance continues to drop at ~5000 km/s.

5 strength 4 missile hits [out of 30 missiles] (Ion drive destroyed leaving the ship stranded)
This was an extremely (un)lucky hit considering 3 missiles managed to hit almost the same spot and then the small amount of internal damage was enough to destroy a 25 HTK drive.

The FACs launch another salvo at a so far untargeted ship.

4 strength 4 missile hits (only armor damage)
5 strength 4 missile hits (only armor damage)

FAC fleet reverse direction and prepares for beam combat while saving final salvo for range <75k km.
Quetzalcoati prepare to fire on the 2 approaching ships that were previously hit with missiles.

Gatling destroyers target ships assumed to have beam weapons.
This results in the following locks for the 6 destroyers:
2x Durango
4x Quetzalcoatl

The Blanco is observed to have large active sensor so is unlikely to have significant beam weapons.
There are 15 Allendes which matches the 15 missile salvos encountered so they are probably the source of the missiles.

Both fleets begin powering up weapons at a distance of 300k km to compensate for fire delay.

As distance closes to point blank both sides' weapons come online and stuff blows up,



The last salvo from the Allendes is also launched at the same time as the above occurs.
9 of the missiles hit 5 second later but only do armor damage.

At the same time the remainder of the beam armored FACs are shredded by railgun fire.
Those that remain have no means to fight or run and so surrender.



Some observations:
- It is REALLY hard to attack AMM ships with only beam weapons. This fleet should have very good damage mitigation against missile (high speed & significant point defense) but it still didn't win very convincingly.
- Since the fleets have no training it is important to order beam weapons to fire well before they are in range to actually hit anything. This matters a lot considering firing 10-15 seconds late could mean the fleet is destroyed before it even fires. (e.g. That could of happen with the FAC fleet since the weapon fire exchange only lasted 10 seconds, but to be fair I prepared both fleet the same way.)



Posted by: sublight
« on: July 07, 2016, 06:18:49 PM »

Sorry about that.

Both factions use the best feed efficiency (85%) and Magazine Ejection (90%) available.

The FAC fleet uses Size-1 C15-HTK2 magazines, 2x per Allende

The AMM fleet uses Size-1 C14-HTK3 magazines, 1 per missile launcher