Cloaked frigate theme

[martinuzz (OP)]

Yay!
I finally managed to design a jump capable cloaking recon ship. It should be nearly invisible as long as it does not turn on it's active sensor.
The active is intended to be used to spot paint big targets for long range missiles boats, but mostly this ship should serve well for scouting new systems. Share your designs for recon / scout ships please, I'd like to see other people's ideas.

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Spotter class Recon Frigate    3,000 tons     85 Crew     1326 BP      TCS 9  TH 38.4  EM 0
4000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 180/180/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.37 Years     MSP 414    AFR 48%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 101    5YR 1511    Max Repair 360 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0    

J3000(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 3000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (1)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 810,000 Litres    Range 61.9 billion km   (179 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR77-R100 Mk1 (1)     GPS 4321     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECM 30
EDIT1: I designed a missile boat to accompany it. Now it needs some PD frigates.

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Shade class Missile Frigate    3,000 tons     68 Crew     742.34 BP      TCS 9  TH 38.4  EM 0
4000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 12
Maint Life 3.04 Years     MSP 271    AFR 41%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 44    5YR 662    Max Repair 270 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 168    

J3000(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 3000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (1)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 810,000 Litres    Range 61.9 billion km   (179 days at full power)

Size 8 Missile Launcher 0.50% Mk1 (3)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 150
Missile Fire Control FC77-R100 Mk1 (1)     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 100
Size 8 Anti-ship ECM Dumbfire Missile (21)  Speed: 120,000 km/s   End: 11.2m    Range: 80.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 8    TH: 600/360/180

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
ECM 30
EDIT2: And PD frigate 1, now to see if I can cram AMM into another one.

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Spirit class Defense Frigate    3,000 tons     98 Crew     2139.3 BP      TCS 9  TH 38.4  EM 0
4000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 4-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 8
Maint Life 6.91 Years     MSP 1448    AFR 22%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 53    5YR 793    Max Repair 1350 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1    

J3000(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 3000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (1)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 810,000 Litres    Range 61.9 billion km   (179 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Soft X-ray Laser (PD180kkm) Turret (1x2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 21984 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S06 180-25000 (1)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor PB-1.25 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 20%

Active Search Sensor MR9-AMM/PD Mk1 (1)     GPS 51     Range 9.1m km    MCR 988k km    Resolution 1
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECM 30
EDIT3: And done. On hindsight, I could have left out the active sensor on the Spirit class, since the AMM frigate has a better one. Now I should design a carrier that can fit 10 3000 ton ships. 1 recon, and 3 of each of the others sounds like a decent carrier strike group

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Ghost class AMM Frigate    3,000 tons     79 Crew     1434.66 BP      TCS 9  TH 38.4  EM 0
4000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 3
Maint Life 4.87 Years     MSP 598    AFR 36%    IFR 0.5%    1YR 42    5YR 625    Max Repair 576 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 3    
Magazine 91    

J3000(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 3000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (1)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 810,000 Litres    Range 61.9 billion km   (179 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher Mk1 (3)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC23-AMM Mk1 (3)     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile Mk1 (91)  Speed: 115,200 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1344/806/403

Active Search Sensor MR51-AMM Mk1 (1)     GPS 288     Range 51.8m km    MCR 5.6m km    Resolution 1
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECM 30

[GreatTuna]

Yay!
I finally managed to design a jump capable cloaking recon ship. It should be nearly invisible as long as it does not turn on it's active sensor.

Some advice for you:

1. 4000 km/s doesn't sound very fast for Inertial Fusion drives. You are not likely to be able to retreat after being spotted.
2. Your sensor\MFC is too shortranged to your missiles. If the enemy uses ECM (and he will use it), the range of MFC will be cut even more, since you don't have ECCM on your frigates, meaning you have to close distance risking detection and eventual destruction.
3. ECM on your ships won't help at all: any combatant can close in and destroy the defenseless craft. This system is mainly for ships who expect resistance from enemy.

Speaking about designs...
The main survey craft of ZemSoy, developed with not stealth but speed in mind, able to detect everything from missiles to ships:

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F-Cornmeat II class Survey Support    10 000 tons     230 Crew     3689.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 3200  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 8-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 140/140/0/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.7 Years     MSP 2075    AFR 88%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 408    5YR 6115    Max Repair 800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 1    

Izmaylov Foundation 1600 EP Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 15%    Signature 1600    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1 050 000 Litres    Range 126.0 billion km   (91 days at full power)

Ratters Missile Detector R1\Sz15\T5 (1)     GPS 540     Range 97.2m km    MCR 10.6m km    Resolution 1
Ratters Ship Detector R100\Sz15\T5 (1)     GPS 54000     Range 972.0m km    Resolution 100
Ratters Thermal Detector S140\Sz10 (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km
Ratters EM Detector S140\Sz10 (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposesAnd Ping, the little Fighter-Scout, made mainly because I didn't put any sensors on carriers:

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Ping III class Fighter-Scout    488 tons     4 Crew     379.5 BP      TCS 9.75  TH 360  EM 0
36923 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.45 Years     MSP 122    AFR 7%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 10    5YR 149    Max Repair 180 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 6    

Fasters EPAM Drive Tripled (1)    Power 360    Fuel Use 378.02%    Signature 360    Exp 30%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 4.9 billion km   (36 hours at full power)

ExpAI Active Search Sensor MR229-R50 (1)     GPS 9000     Range 229.1m km    Resolution 50

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Wait, new designs.
And more questions:
1. Why your AMM are slower than ASMs?
2. 9 missiles per salvo is way less than adequate for 30kton strike group.
3. Your ships have maintenance life of several years, but very low deployment time.
4. If you're going to put all these ships in carrier, why don't you put jump drive on the carrier instead of spending precious space on these frigates?

[linkxsc]

Hmmm. I was doing basically this same thing in my game at home before I left. I skipped doing a jump drive on every ship though, I found it much more effective to do an equally sized jump tender (with max squadron) to transfer them around.

Also they had a 20bn range rather than a 60. And more speed. Since i figured their role would have been to get jumped into a system, perhaps with a supporting fuel/ammo tender) and recon/engage enemy civilian ships while they were moving to jump points and such. Although most of their movement was done at half engine power (keep the thermal sig down)

[martinuzz (OP)]

Some advice for you:

1. 4000 km/s doesn't sound very fast for Inertial Fusion drives. You are not likely to be able to retreat after being spotted.
2. Your sensor\MFC is too shortranged to your missiles. If the enemy uses ECM (and he will use it), the range of MFC will be cut even more, since you don't have ECCM on your frigates, meaning you have to close distance risking detection and eventual destruction.
3. ECM on your ships won't help at all: any combatant can close in and destroy the defenseless craft. This system is mainly for ships who expect resistance from enemy.

1) Well yeah.. I keep running into trouble with fuel consumption. I can't seem to both fit enough fuel into the 3000 ton designs as well as make them faster. I think these engines have a 1.5 power boost. Perhaps I should go back to no boost
2) I design my anti ship missiles with slightly more range than the fire control / sensor. That way they have some spare distance, when their target is moving away after the missiles have been fired.
3) Still working on more ships to deal with close up threats. I just feel more safe with ECM on them, and it kinda fits their stealth profile RP wise. Good advice though, thanks.

Wait, new designs.
And more questions:
1. Why your AMM are slower than ASMs?
2. 9 missiles per salvo is way less than adequate for 30kton strike group.
3. Your ships have maintenance life of several years, but very low deployment time.
4. If you're going to put all these ships in carrier, why don't you put jump drive on the carrier instead of spending precious space on these frigates?

1) Haha I just noticed that too. My AMM are optimized for 1 strenght warhead / agility though. My ASM's 1.125 (9 strenght) warhead just left a lot of room for engine. It can't hurt now can it <insert evil cackle>
2) True, for a non cloaking/selfjumping strike group.
3) I guess that's a side effect of adding enough engineering spaces to have MSP>Max repair? Their deployment time is set to 6 months, if that matters.
4) I was joking about the carrier, as a meta-comment on my EDITing spree.

So the role I see for this strikegroup, in sequence, would be:
1) recon goes in first, no actives, searches for contacts with passives
2) rest of strikegroup(s), no actives, joins recon
3) close into missile range, if you didn't position your scout there already
4) turn on active on recon, fire missiles
5) wait until missiles impact or are destroyed
6) switch off actives, sneak away with a 450 ton stealth profile, lowered engine speed if need be. Enemies would need a 75m km fighter size resolution sensor to see you.
7) now I might be wrong, but the recon's size 10 passives should detect incoming missiles just in time to turn on active PD sensors with time to respond.

[linkxsc]

Just a bit curious, how large are your engines in HS?
Also do you not have thermal sig reductions on them? (Cause thatll get you detected a lot farther off than anything else. Even with cloaking)

[martinuzz (OP)]

The engines are 10HS for the 240EP Stealth Drives. The Stealth part of that name means their thermal signature is reduced to 16% normal, my tech is pretty high.

After some consideration, and careful reading of some good advice in this thread, I decided to scrap the jumpdrives from the designs, say screw it to the engineering spaces on the frigates, and gave them a second 240 EP drive. And made a carrier after all. A cloaked 45000 ton carrier (85% signature reduction). The darn cloaking device is 90HS. I designed an eco (0.75% power) stealth (16% thermal signal) 1200 EP drive just for the carrier.

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Void class Stealth Carrier    45,000 tons     866 Crew     12197.3 BP      TCS 135  TH 960  EM 0
6666 km/s     Armour 1-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 78     PPV 0
Maint Life 1.53 Years     MSP 8132    AFR 337%    IFR 4.7%    1YR 3944    5YR 59164    Max Repair 4050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 125    
Hangar Deck Capacity 15000 tons     Magazine 696    

1200 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth EcoDrive (5)    Power 1200    Fuel Use 7.31%    Signature 192    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 5,115,000 Litres    Range 279.9 billion km   (485 days at full power)

Size 1 Anti-missile Missile Mk1 (216)  Speed: 115,200 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1344/806/403
Size 8 Anti-ship ECM Dumbfire Missile (60)  Speed: 120,000 km/s   End: 11.2m    Range: 80.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 8    TH: 600/360/180

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

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Spotter class Recon Frigate    3,000 tons     79 Crew     1575 BP      TCS 9  TH 76.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 180/180/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0.49 Years     MSP 164    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 337    5YR 5052    Max Repair 360 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0    

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (2)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 850,000 Litres    Range 64.9 billion km   (93 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR77-R100 Mk1 (1)     GPS 4321     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECM 30


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Shade class Missile Frigate    3,000 tons     61 Crew     977.84 BP      TCS 9  TH 76.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 12
Maint Life 0.82 Years     MSP 122    AFR 120%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 149    5YR 2234    Max Repair 270 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1    
Magazine 168    

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (2)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 855,000 Litres    Range 65.3 billion km   (94 days at full power)

Size 8 Missile Launcher 0.50% Mk1 (3)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 150
Missile Fire Control FC77-R100 Mk1 (1)     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 100
Size 8 Anti-ship ECM Dumbfire Missile (21)  Speed: 120,000 km/s   End: 11.2m    Range: 80.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 8    TH: 600/360/180

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
Compact ECCM-2 (1)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

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Spirit class Defense Frigate    3,000 tons     85 Crew     2339.1 BP      TCS 9  TH 76.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 6-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 8
Maint Life 1.22 Years     MSP 365    AFR 96%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 252    5YR 3781    Max Repair 1350 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1    

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (2)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 855,000 Litres    Range 65.3 billion km   (94 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Soft X-ray Laser (AMM180kkm) Turret (1x2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 21984 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S06 180-25000 (1)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor PB-1.25 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 20%

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 30

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Ghost class AMM Frigate    3,000 tons     72 Crew     1694.66 BP      TCS 9  TH 76.8  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0.61 Years     MSP 177    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 289    5YR 4329    Max Repair 576 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 91    

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (2)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 855,000 Litres    Range 65.3 billion km   (94 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher Mk1 (3)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC23-AMM Mk1 (3)     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile Mk1 (91)  Speed: 115,200 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1344/806/403

Active Search Sensor MR51-AMM Mk1 (1)     GPS 288     Range 51.8m km    MCR 5.6m km    Resolution 1
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

Small Craft ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 30
EDIT: and here's pew pew frigates (their 15cm laser is actually a spinal 12cm laser, I couldn't fit an advanced spinal or anything better really), a carrier that swapped out magazines for more fuel, because the beam frigates drink a lot. Also, a cloaked jump tender that can take itself, and 4 carriers through a gate, unless squad size 5 means that it can take itself, plus 5 carriers.

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Wisp class Beam Frigate    3,000 tons     93 Crew     2517 BP      TCS 9  TH 153.6  EM 600
16000 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Maint Life 1.1 Years     MSP 262    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 219    5YR 3288    Max Repair 1012 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0    

320 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth PowerDrive (3)    Power 320    Fuel Use 284.6%    Signature 51.2    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 1,040,000 Litres    Range 21.9 billion km   (15 days at full power)
Theta R300/288 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  60 Litres per hour  (1,440 per day)

15cm C6 Soft X-ray Laser (1)    Range 360,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 4 3
Fire Control S04.5 180-18750 H30 (1)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 18750 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor PB-1.25 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 20%

Active Search Sensor MR2-R10 (1)     GPS 36     Range 2.0m km    Resolution 10
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 30

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Hollow class Stealth Carrier    45,000 tons     845 Crew     12191.9 BP      TCS 135  TH 960  EM 0
6666 km/s     Armour 1-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 78     PPV 0
Maint Life 1.53 Years     MSP 8128    AFR 337%    IFR 4.7%    1YR 3929    5YR 58931    Max Repair 4050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 310    
Hangar Deck Capacity 15000 tons    

1200 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth EcoDrive (5)    Power 1200    Fuel Use 7.31%    Signature 192    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 6,690,000 Litres    Range 366.0 billion km   (635 days at full power)

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

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Charon class Jump Tender    45,000 tons     932 Crew     17803.5 BP      TCS 135  TH 960  EM 0
6666 km/s    JR 5-500     Armour 4-112     Shields 0-0     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 100     PPV 32
Maint Life 1.06 Years     MSP 9891    AFR 405%    IFR 5.6%    1YR 8907    5YR 133606    Max Repair 4050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0    

J45000(5-500) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 45000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 5
1200 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth EcoDrive (5)    Power 1200    Fuel Use 7.31%    Signature 192    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 15,000,000 Litres    Range 820.7 billion km   (1424 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Soft X-ray Laser (AMM180kkm) Turret (4x2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 21984 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S06 180-25000 (4)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 24    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR9-AMM Mk1 (1)     GPS 51     Range 9.1m km    MCR 988k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECM 30

[linkxsc]

Engines look much better, and the speed.
Though I am not in the camp of dumping off maintenence (especially with a stealth ship that might end up trawling very slowly around for long periods of time)
Perhaps though you could use a maint storage module rater than more engineering spaces (storage just adds msp, without making the afr lower)

As a whole they all look quite a bit better than the earlier versions, and the inclusion of a tanker that can run right with them is always beneficial.

Curious as to the full stats of your size 8 asms.

[martinuzz (OP)]

Curious as to the full stats of your size 8 asms.

I have two designs. Currently using the ECM dumbfires, but I have seekers too.

dumbfire ECM:

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Missile Size: 8 MSP  (0.4 HS)     Warhead: 9    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 120000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 11 minutes   Range: 80.8m km
ECM Level: 4
Cost Per Missile: 17.05
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1800%   3k km/s 600%   5k km/s 360%   10k km/s 180%
Seekers:

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Missile Size: 8 MSP  (0.4 HS)     Warhead: 9    Armour: 1     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 120000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 11 minutes   Range: 80.8m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.252   Sensitivity Modifier: 180%
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 450,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 15.2552
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1440%   3k km/s 480%   5k km/s 288%   10k km/s 144%
EDIT: added a cloaked fighter, and a flagship to the mix. Thirty fighters per Void carrier . I'm going to need more naval officers haha.

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Eraser class Stealthfighter    500 tons     14 Crew     267 BP      TCS 1.5  TH 25.6  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2.4
Maint Life 3.93 Years     MSP 33    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 3    5YR 51    Max Repair 90 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 16   

80 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth MicroDrive (2)    Power 80    Fuel Use 293.5%    Signature 12.8    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 40,000 Litres    Range 4.9 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Size 8 Box Launcher (2)    Missile Size 8    Hangar Reload 60 minutes    MF Reload 10 hours
Torpedo Fire Control FC13-R50 (1)     Range 13.7m km    Resolution 50
Size 8 Seeker Torpedo (2)  Speed: 120,000 km/s   End: 0.3m    Range: 2.5m km   WH: 9    Size: 8    TH: 560/336/168

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
ECM 30The torpedoes have a point of armor, 0.25 (which translates to 1 strenght) ECM, and an active sensor.

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Shadow class Command Ship    45,000 tons     1365 Crew     30777.9 BP      TCS 135  TH 960  EM 4440
6666 km/s    JR 5-500     Armour 5-112     Shields 148-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 170     PPV 118
Maint Life 1.09 Years     MSP 8763    AFR 790%    IFR 11%    1YR 7433    5YR 111497    Max Repair 4050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 2   
Flag Bridge   

J45000(5-500) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 45000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 5
1200 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth EcoDrive (5)    Power 1200    Fuel Use 7.31%    Signature 192    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 4,055,000 Litres    Range 221.9 billion km   (385 days at full power)
Theta R300/288 Shields (37)   Total Fuel Cost  444 Litres per hour  (10,656 per day)

Twin 10cm C3 Soft X-ray Laser (AMM180kkm) Turret (5x2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 21984 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
Single 30cm C8 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (6x1)    Range 480,000km     TS: 18225 km/s     Power 24-8     RM 6    ROF 15        24 24 24 24 24 24 20 18 16 14
Fire Control S06 240-18750 H30 (6)    Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 18750 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Fire Control S06 180-25000 (5)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor PB-1.25 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 20%
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (3)     Total Power Output 72    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR51-AMM Mk1 (1)     GPS 288     Range 51.8m km    MCR 5.6m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR160-R50 (1)     GPS 6300     Range 160.4m km    Resolution 50
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECCM-3 (6)         ECM 40
Bedtime now. I need to make some 45k ton defense ships tomorrow

[Jorgen_CAB]

A few questions...

1. Why do you have so long range on ships that are suppose to operate from a carrier?
I think you would be all right with just a couple of billion km range on your frigates. Enough range to do some combat manoeuvres and then get back to the carrier.

2. The cloaking device on both the carrier and support ship is mostly wasted, they still have a TCS of 135, most active sensors will use resolutions smaller than that which means that they are as easy to lock on to with or without the cloaking device.

3. The range of your Fire-control on the fighters is only 13.7m km. They are very likely to get picked up by enemy AMM scanners and Fire-controls at these tech levels. They would need at least 30-40m range of not more to become safe. I think the same goes for your frigates with only 80m km range and a TCS of around 10, they will not be safe against someone with your refinement in technology level. If you are mainly fighting against lower tech level enemies you will be fine though with your frigates, but not with the fighters. I would suggest a firing range on the fighter of at least 80m and the frigates at 160m firing range to give you some margins.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Some more food for thoughts...

In order to save research, building resources and overal wasting time you should consider streamlinging your whole fleet.

Combine the 45kt Jumptender and Commandship into one ship and the Carrier can provide enough defense and still have decent hangar space and drop the cloaking devices on all of them. This will make the whole process of both research, building and later upgrading these ships much easier.

Drop all 3000t frigates except the scout and only use dedicated fighters or perhaps FAC (or both). Don't waste resources in defense such as AMM and PD in such type of ships, they are all about surprise striking an opponent in full force. You can keep some interceptor type fighter to engage enemy scouts, FAC or fighters. But trying to attack a decent enemy fleet with beam gunboats is usually not a good idea.

A complete strike force could then be one Command Ship (with a jump engine to jump five ships) and four carrier each with a hangar space for about 12000t.

Each carrier could hold a strike force of:
1x3000t Scout Frigate
6x800t Missile Boats (slower but longer range crafts with a heavy payload of very long range armored missiles, also perhaps using stealth technology)
7x350t Fast Torpedo Bombers (very fast crafts with slightly smaller and faster missiles with less range than the Missile Boats)
6x275t Interceptors (10cm miniaturized laser cannons)

Each such strike group could also be supported by some commercial tankers for really long way missions and or dedicated collier/supply ships.

[Barkhorn]

His fighters are likely not going to be picked up by active sensors actually if their cloaks are on.  15% of 500 is only 75tons.  I think he'll be fine.

But he should definitely decrease the deployment time on those fighters, they don't need 1 month of deployment time.  Which will free up some space for other things, decrease the necessary crew, and mean the carrier doesn't need so many flight crew berths.

[Jorgen_CAB]

His fighters are likely not going to be picked up by active sensors actually if their cloaks are on.  15% of 500 is only 75tons.  I think he'll be fine.

Although a resolution 1 AMM scanner will easily detect them at a range of 2.4m km that their torpedoes have, even a range of 14m km that their fire-control has is not good enough for a decent high tech AMM sensor and fire-control. Fighter with 1 point of armour will die like flies at either enemy fighter interceptors or AMM missiles or even worse warhead 4 anti-fighter missiles.

A 250t medium tech resolution one active scanner has a range of 11.5m km and detect size 6 missiles at 1.3m km (active tech 21, EM sensitivity 11), probably lower tech than his fleet. And this is mostly a small AMM sensor for a dedicated AMM ship in most fleets in that tech era. They are more likely to be closer to 500t or larger to detect incoming missiles as early as possible. So I think that increasing the range on the torpedoes will be essential for their survival. I'm not sure the cloaking devise is doing much use at that stage of technology either, it take up too much space in such a small craft.
It would be more useful with a smaller fighter carrying  longer ranged missiles and a bigger FAC type craft with a cloaking device able to carrying a larger payload. An 800t FAC with a 15% profile is 120t or resolution 2.4. This I think is a better choice given sensors needed to detect them and the smaller fighter will be pretty expensive research wise to build to counter them.

[alex_brunius]

Although a resolution 1 AMM scanner will easily detect them at a range of 2.4m km that their torpedoes have, even a range of 14m km that their fire-control has is not good enough for a decent high tech AMM sensor and fire-control. Fighter with 1 point of armour will die like flies at either enemy fighter interceptors or AMM missiles or even worse warhead 4 anti-fighter missiles.

A 250t medium tech resolution one active scanner has a range of 11.5m km and detect size 6 missiles at 1.3m km (active tech 21, EM sensitivity 11), probably lower tech than his fleet.

Indeed. Any decent Ion-Engine tech level AMM platform/sensor would be able to detect and swat down those fighters before they even got into torpedo range.

[martinuzz (OP)]

Thanks for the input folks, some good points were made there.
I suppose those short range torpedoes would only work on big beam ships, as an extra surprise punch. I do have some size 4 range 25m km missiles I could put on those fighters though. But you're right, I really need more cloaking tech for cloaking fighters, the current 3hs cloaking device is indeed taking up too much space.

As for the cloaks on the big ships.. It isn't so much intended as to hide them from detection, but rather to mislead the enemy into thinking it's just a few small ships that just popped in through their wormhole.

Also, I did not combine the command ship and the jump tender because that would be a waste of flag bridges. I just need 1, but intend to use more than 1 tender.

<heads beack to the drawing table>
You think 28m km is a safe enough firing distance for those cloaked fighters?

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Eraser class Stealthfighter    500 tons     3 Crew     291 BP      TCS 1.5  TH 25.6  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2.4
Maint Life 4.04 Years     MSP 36    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 4    5YR 53    Max Repair 90 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 7    
Magazine 16    

80 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth MicroDrive (2)    Power 80    Fuel Use 293.5%    Signature 12.8    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 3.7 billion km   (63 hours at full power)

Size 4 Box Launcher (4)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC30-R10 Mk1 (1)     Range 30.7m km    Resolution 10
Size 4 Anti-ship Seeker Missile Mk1 (4)  Speed: 132,000 km/s   End: 3.6m    Range: 28.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 704/422/211

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
ECM 30
EDIT: Right. I removed tons of fuel tanks on most frigates, which allowed me to double their speed plus some extra firepower / stuff, such as AMM added to the defense frigate, and armor on the beam frigate.

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Wisp class Beam Frigate    3,000 tons     118 Crew     3614.3 BP      TCS 9  TH 256  EM 600
26666 km/s     Armour 4-18     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Maint Life 0.23 Years     MSP 188    AFR 288%    IFR 4%    1YR 808    5YR 12117    Max Repair 1350 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 2   

320 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth PowerDrive (5)    Power 320    Fuel Use 284.6%    Signature 51.2    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 435,000 Litres    Range 9.2 billion km   (3 days at full power)
Theta R300/288 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  60 Litres per hour  (1,440 per day)

15cm C6 Soft X-ray Laser (1)    Range 360,000km     TS: 26666 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 4 3
Fire Control S06 180-25000 (1)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor PB-1.25 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 20%

Active Search Sensor MR2-R10 (1)     GPS 36     Range 2.0m km    Resolution 10
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 30

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Spotter class Recon Frigate    3,000 tons     92 Crew     2065.3 BP      TCS 9  TH 153.6  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 180/180/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0.17 Years     MSP 108    AFR 288%    IFR 4%    1YR 633    5YR 9489    Max Repair 360 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 8   

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (4)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 320,000 Litres    Range 24.4 billion km   (17 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor MR77-R100 Mk1 (1)     GPS 4321     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

ECM 30

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Shade class Missile Frigate    3,000 tons     81 Crew     1488.58 BP      TCS 9  TH 153.6  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 16
Maint Life 0.26 Years     MSP 78    AFR 288%    IFR 4%    1YR 298    5YR 4463    Max Repair 270 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 4   
Magazine 192   

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (4)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 7.6 billion km   (5 days at full power)

Size 8 Missile Launcher 0.50% Mk1 (4)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 150
Missile Fire Control FC77-R100 Mk1 (1)     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 100
Size 8 Anti-ship ECM Dumbfire Missile (24)  Speed: 120,000 km/s   End: 11.2m    Range: 80.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 8    TH: 600/360/180

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 10

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Ghost class AMM Frigate    3,000 tons     94 Crew     2286.5 BP      TCS 9  TH 153.6  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Maint Life 0.23 Years     MSP 119    AFR 288%    IFR 4%    1YR 523    5YR 7847    Max Repair 576 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 6   
Magazine 108   

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (4)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 7.6 billion km   (5 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher Mk1 (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC23-AMM Mk1 (4)     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile Mk1 (108)  Speed: 115,200 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1344/806/403

Active Search Sensor MR51-AMM Mk1 (1)     GPS 288     Range 51.8m km    MCR 5.6m km    Resolution 1
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal

Small Craft ECCM-1 (4)         ECM 30

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Spirit class Defense Frigate    3,000 tons     109 Crew     2935.82 BP      TCS 9  TH 153.6  EM 0
16000 km/s     Armour 3-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 10
Maint Life 0.22 Years     MSP 153    AFR 288%    IFR 4%    1YR 699    5YR 10489    Max Repair 1350 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 74   

240 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (4)    Power 240    Fuel Use 78.54%    Signature 38.4    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 7.6 billion km   (5 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Soft X-ray Laser (AMM180kkm) Turret (1x2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 21984 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S06 180-25000 (1)    Max Range: 360,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Inertial Confinement Fusion Reactor PB-1.25 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 20%

Size 1 Missile Launcher Mk1 (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC23-AMM Mk1 (2)     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 1
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile Mk1 (74)  Speed: 115,200 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 1344/806/403

Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15% of normal
Compact ECCM-2 (2)         ECM 10

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would say that you either look at your own AMM active resolution 1 sensor or estimate what you think an enemy will have. Your own frigates can scan 51m km at resolution 1. I would go with a range that are say +10-20% of that for some safety margins. That is 55-60m km range.

25m km might be OK against most fleets with no dedicated AMM ships or with very low tech level.

Having short range torpedoes for close combat can still be a good idea though. As you said, good against beam only ships and good at JP defence or attack. If you have a torpedo with a speed at 130k km/s you can fire it without the enemy having any chance to shoot it down at a distance of 650k km. You can also use such torpedoes against enemy fighters/FAC to some rather good effect, but only if you also carry a low resolution short range fire-control.

I still think that using a stealth FAC instead of a fighter would be better in your case and just have a fighter be none stealth.

Personally I think that using stealth on a big ship to fool anyone is a one trick pony and would not work very well in reality since electronic intelligence is very good at profiling ship emission to classify them. So once they are classified that trick will not work any more. In reality with spies and the ability to scan and catalogue ships in peace would also make it pointless. Just saying...