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VB6 Aurora > Bureau of Ship Design
Missile Cruiser Task Group -- Feedback wanted
captain_carrot:
Hey guys, this is my first real attempt at building a warship formation. Please let me know any advice/suggestions you may have to improve upon them! (I haven't found any NPR's yet in my game, so I haven't had a chance to battle test them. . . )
--- Code: ---Lugh Mk. II class Jump Cruiser 10000 tons 316 Crew 1246.96 BP TCS 200 TH 240 EM 0
1200 km/s JR 4-50 Armour 3-41 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/12/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 48
Maint Life 1.93 Years MSP 351 AFR 177% IFR 2.5% 1YR 123 5YR 1840 Max Repair 166 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months Spare Berths 0
Magazine 414
J10200(4-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 10200 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 4
120 EP Ion Drive (2) Power 120 Fuel Use 72% Signature 120 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 500000 Litres Range 12.5 billion km (120 days at full power)
CIWS-120 (1x4) Range 1000 km TS: 12000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Spear Size 8 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 120
Gae Derg Missile Fire Control FC64-R80 (1) Range 64.4m km Resolution 80
Gae Derg Mk. II Anti-ship Missile (52) Speed: 11200 km/s End: 106.9m Range: 71.9m km WH: 20 Size: 8 TH: 37 / 22 / 11
Active Search Sensor MR96-R100 (1) GPS 16000 Range 96.0m km Resolution 100
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
--- End code ---
--- Code: ---Scathach Mk. II class Cruiser 8000 tons 287 Crew 1053.64 BP TCS 160 TH 180 EM 0
1125 km/s Armour 3-35 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/12/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 64
Maint Life 3.95 Years MSP 412 AFR 102% IFR 1.4% 1YR 42 5YR 631 Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months Spare Berths 5
Magazine 308
60 EP Ion Drive (3) Power 60 Fuel Use 76% Signature 60 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 300000 Litres Range 8.9 billion km (91 days at full power)
CIWS-120 (1x4) Range 1000 km TS: 12000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Spear Size 8 Missile Launcher (8) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 120
Gae Derg Missile Fire Control FC64-R80 (1) Range 64.4m km Resolution 80
Gae Derg Mk. I Anti-ship Missile (38) Speed: 10000 km/s End: 105.3m Range: 63.2m km WH: 12 Size: 8 TH: 33 / 20 / 10
Active Search Sensor MR96-R100 (1) GPS 16000 Range 96.0m km Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
--- End code ---
--- Code: ---Cu Sidhe class Escort 3000 tons 75 Crew 416.6 BP TCS 60 TH 300 EM 0
5000 km/s Armour 1-18 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 9
Maint Life 2.99 Years MSP 87 AFR 72% IFR 1% 1YR 15 5YR 219 Max Repair 30 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months Spare Berths 2
60 EP Ion Drive (5) Power 60 Fuel Use 76% Signature 60 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 650000 Litres Range 51.3 billion km (118 days at full power)
Point Defense 10cm Railgun V3/C3 (3x4) Range 30000km TS: 5000 km/s Power 3-3 RM 3 ROF 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Point Defense Fire Control S02 32-6000 (1) Max Range: 64000 km TS: 6000 km/s 84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (2) Total Power Output 9 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Rail Gun Point Defense Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1) GPS 8 Range 480k km MCR 52k km Resolution 1
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
--- End code ---
Michael Sandy:
At least until Magneto-Plasma, you can build quite effective missile warships with commercial engines. This saves a LOT on fuel and jump engines. Assuming that your concern is strategic mobility, and not attempting a jump assault. And at ion tech you probably aren't really ready for a jump assault.
You can have commercial engined ion warships that are considerably faster than 1200 km/s. My theory is that if you can reach a desired speed with less than 60% mass commercial engines, you should definitely use commercial engines for that role. Possibly as high as 70% engines, although the mass cost for a long crew and maintenance endurance can be an issue.
Commercial engines can soak an enormous amount of punishment for very few BP.
I would argue that military engines are preferably once you have at least 2 levels of engine boost available, and if you have a really good fuel situation. If your empire is more limited by duranium than by gallicite, go for boost.
At TL 3, you should probably have at least the first 2 levels of engine boost for your missiles and launcher reduction should also be available. If you have TL 3 warhead and agility tech, you should definitely have at least TL 2 launcher tech.
Those warhead 20s will make very nice holes in stuff, but I am concerned about their accuracy and vulnerability to point defense. If you have reduced sized launchers, you fire larger volleys and fire in response to the effect your volleys have.
Also, this is probably the most common error I see in missile ship designs: Not enough magazine space. At 9 volleys, you shoot yourself dry in 8*120 or 960 seconds. At 1200 km/s, that is slightly over 1 million km, or under 2% of your missile range.
While it might be difficult if you haven't had a good defense scientist, as an RP matter, I think it is awkward if your own missiles always penetrate your armor on the first hit. Unless your fleet has a serious focus on missile defense, that is a serious glass cannon. You would need 4 armor to avoid taking system damage from a single one of your own missiles.
Railguns are a decent early PD. If you are going for unarmored escorts anyway, consider using fighters. You will have a huge savings on the fire controls. The anti-missile sensor is quite good. Possibly a little excessive, but not by much. Beam PD doesn't need quite as much lead detection as sensors for AMMs. For AMMs, you want to intercept as far out as possible.
I think that the biggest problem I have with your fleet is that it is intended for force projection (it has jump engines), but is ridiculously short ranged. And it isn't pushing a performance envelope with speed or armor such that you would need to cut down space so ruthlessly elsewhere.
misanthropope:
Your fleet seems more good than bad. It's tolerable, built on an economical research allotment. I would bet that was the explicit original aim.
Point defense early in the game is hard. you're going to take that AMM spam and your tracking speed isn't going to be able to cope, really. Your fleet design matches the general consensus that active defense is better than passives, but a good chin is an important plan 'B' in the I(r)on Age.
I think the speed mismatch among classes is excessive, and I don't like the size 8 launchers at all. If you aren't in the realm of doing and needing to do shock damage, a big warhead isn't worth sacrificing other performance, IMO. Sanding everything to death with size one garbage missiles is a joy-sucking anti-game experience, i get it, but maybe size four, using whatever size reduction tech you have, would be a reasonable compromise?
Did you know that CIWS is actually pronounced "scuse"? as in "scuse me while i kill all your friends". they are decorations for vanity ships (a VALID USE, ok? just not relevant here); they are really functional on JP assault ships, exploity fire-drawing missile sponges, and death stars (ie single ship fleets).
I agree completely with what MS said about commercial engines, but that is critiquing your paradigm, not your designs. I agree with what he said about fighters (the free 20%-ish accuracy bonus you get from fighter combat bonus is nice) but probably the R&D cost puts it out of consideration for the first generation of ships. but you can always add a carrier after the fact; a small carrier for point defense duty is pretty worthy.
Michael Sandy:
Depending on your fleet speed, you don't need carriers to have point defense fighters. I like building heavily armored tanker/tug/jump tenders (CIWS optional) once I start building capital ships. With small, (or tiny) engineering spaces, you can have effective point defense fighters that keep up with the fleet if you go with miniaturized gauss turrets.
Assuming you have at least something with a military jump engine in the fleet, every if is it your minimum sized jump engine for survey fleets.
Lacking a good P&P scientist sucks, but sometimes you just have to leverage the good scientists you have. If you have a good defense scientist, you can build cheap ships that basically soak enemy missiles, and as long as you can get between them and their base where they can reload, you can seize the territory. If you have a good MK scientist, going for gauss turrets is probably marginally better than railguns, because railguns depend so much more on engines to achieve accuracy. Marginally because you have already invested in railguns. If you have a good sensors scientist you can leverage that by building missile fire controls and sensors that allow you to shoot from beyond enemy range, either for single stage missiles for fighters and LACs, or 2-stage missiles for capital ships.
I think it is really fascinating seeing the adaptations people make to their fleet designs based on their scientists. For example, I have had 15 years of crap C&P scientists, no sensors scientist (until recently), a +65 defense scientist a decent PP and MK and a +60 factory administrator. That last makes fighter factories and ordnance factories MUCH more attractive, even with the crap sensors.
Barkhorn:
Honestly pretty impressed with your fleet, considering it is your first ever. Speeds mostly match, deployment times match, ranges are nice and long.
Only problem I can see is that you've got no good way to spot missiles or FAC's. You need a res 1 active sensor.
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