Author Topic: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions  (Read 7272 times)

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Offline Crustypeanut (OP)

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 11:55:49 PM »
Sorry to hijack your thread here, but it's related to the drones.

Not a problem, I was done with it for now anyways :P
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 07:22:37 AM »
The System Information window (F9) has a nifty little column of whether a planet is unknown (blank), surveyed with no minerals (S), or has minerals (M) over on the left

Also on the system map, if you click the Show Surveyed Bodies checkbox on the Minerals tab, every surveyed body will be circled.

Steve
 

Offline Jikor

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 02:58:42 PM »
I have searched and searched but I can't seem to find this anywhere. (Probally not wording the terms correctly).
What is the formula missile speed per EP?
i.e. For regular engines it looks like:

(EP/Size)*1000 = Speed

But this seems too low for missiles. I may have missed it in steve's thread but cannot see it after looking it over a few times.
 

Offline sublight

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 04:52:13 PM »
Same formula, but note 'size' = HS.

Since 1 HS = 20 MSP, the missile speed equation should be (EP/Size_In_MSP) * 20,000 km/s.
 

Offline Charlie Beeler

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 07:52:45 PM »
Or...

(EP/(Size*.05))*1000=kps
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics - paraphrase attributed to Gen Omar Bradley
 

Offline Jikor

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2013, 08:11:40 AM »
Ok thanks. Was thinking size on missiles was same as size on ships (i.e. tons/50) Makes sense that a size 6 missile isn't larger than a small fighter.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 08:21:25 AM by Jikor »
 

Offline Execrated1

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 10:43:56 AM »
<Insert stupid Yo Dawg comment here>
 

Offline Jackal Cry

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2013, 11:10:22 PM »
EDIT: Issue resolved, the waypoint method works.  See post below this one.

I am having problems with geosurvey drones or buoys or whatever you want to call them.    I want to shoot a geology survey drone at Venus and have it automatically survey the body.    It's getting frustrating.   

I have a ship with a size 23 missile launcher and a size 23 missile-buoy.    The ship has a missile fire control and an active sensor both with a range in the extreme millions of km, although I don't think it needs any of those components.    The missile-buoy only has an engine, a lot of fuel, and about 15 MSP of geosurvey sensors.    I have tried designs with 1 MSP each of EM, Thermal, and Active sensors as well, but they suffer from the same problems listed below.   
(I do not know if those sensors are necessary for geo survey purposes.   )

I have also made a missile that shoots a similar missile-buoy as a second stage, with the separation range set to 0k km.   

I have gone into the Individual Unit menu and loaded my missile launchers with the stuff I want to shoot.    I have tried this both with and without selecting my target with my missile fire control -- it makes no difference whether I do or don't.    My problems are the following:

  • When I give my ships the order Venus -> Launch Missiles At, the ships move to Venus and then shoot the missile or buoy at the planet.    The geo survey buoy does not enter Venus orbit for some reason and gets left behind in space as the planet move in its orbit.    The two-stage missile immediately self-destructs as it "lacks a target" and has no sensors.   
  • When I use the Waypoint method mentioned on page 1 of this thread, the same thing happens.    The ships move to the Waypoint and drop the missiles there, with the above effects.   
  • When I load my missiles in my launcher, and hit the MSL Launch button (on the F12 Task Group menu, for instance), I get a (error) message saying "SHIP: SIZE 23 MISSILE LAUNCHER cannot be fired as the ship is currently suffering the effects of transit.   " But it is not doing anything with jump points.    It is just hanging out in Sol.    I'm sure the message relates somehow to fire controls not working, but as I said above, it makes no difference whether I push the MSL Launch button with a target loaded onto the fire controls, or without one.    The same message appears.   

Bizarrely, the regular buoys worked once, after the ships went into orbit around a body and fired them.    The buoys stayed in orbit and surveyed the body.    But when I repeated the same steps on a different body, it did not work.    The buoys were left in space, as per the first bullet point.   I should add that I am most definitely not trying to survey an already surveyed body. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:02:07 AM by Jackal Cry »
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 03:53:01 AM »
the waypoint method is the correct one.

to clarify:

Select the body in question. Go to the waypoints tab, click Last. This will create a waypoint that follows the body.   Go to the combat overview and fire the missile at the waypoint. 
 

Offline Jackal Cry

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 09:01:24 AM »
Yes, the waypoint method works.    Eventually I realized what was going on.    After doing the waypoint method, the drone WAS surveying the planet.    I just wasn't giving it enough time to finish.    My original drone's engine was also too slow to keep up with a comet I was practicing on.    :) Thanks for the help!


EDIT:
Does anyone know why I get this error, and how I can fix or get around it?

Quote
When I load my missiles in my launcher, and hit the MSL Launch button (on the F12 Task Group menu, for instance), I get a (error) message saying "SHIP: SIZE 23 MISSILE LAUNCHER cannot be fired as the ship is currently suffering the effects of transit.    " But it is not doing anything with jump points.     It is just hanging out in Sol.     I'm sure the message relates somehow to fire controls not working, but as I said above, it makes no difference whether I push the MSL Launch button with a target loaded onto the fire controls, or without one.     The same message appears.   
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 11:17:35 PM by Jackal Cry »
 

Offline Conscript Gary

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2013, 09:23:13 PM »
The MSL Launch button has been broken for as long as I can remember. And yes, the Launch Missiles At order does mean 'move there, then launch missiles once you're at it.
 

Offline FancySanta

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2013, 01:23:46 AM »
How exactly are geosurvey probes or buoys supposed to work in 6. 20+?

I've tried launching size 24 probes/probe carriers with a PDC to a certain distance from Luna, or onto it, and nothing seems to be generating geosurvey points.

I noticed the reactor entry box is blanked out, and I can only seem to increase the maximum geosurvey points if I add an engine and fuel, but even then once the buoy or probe reaches the waypoint it just sits there and does nothing.  What is it that I'm doing wrong?
 

Offline Jackal Cry

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2013, 03:34:14 PM »
Quote from: FancySanta link=topic=5684. msg60312#msg60312 date=1361085826
How exactly are geosurvey probes or buoys supposed to work in 6.  20+?

I've tried launching size 24 probes/probe carriers with a PDC to a certain distance from Luna, or onto it, and nothing seems to be generating geosurvey points. 

I noticed the reactor entry box is blanked out, and I can only seem to increase the maximum geosurvey points if I add an engine and fuel, but even then once the buoy or probe reaches the waypoint it just sits there and does nothing.   What is it that I'm doing wrong?

First, make sure the body you're surveying isn't already surveyed.
Second, to conduct a geosurvey, a ship or drone has to be directly on the body.  The reason drones have engines is so they can move to keep up with the body.  There is no visual effect I know of that shows a geosurvey is being done by a drone.
Third, if you make a missile with a geosurvey drone as a second stage, make sure the Second Stage separation is set to 0.  This will make it so the drone pops out when the missile is directly on the body. 

In the system map, click on the body, go to the Waypoints tab on the left side of the screen, and click Last.  This will make a waypoint that follows the body around as it moves.  While you're still on the system map, go to Display or Display 2 and turn on the option to show how many geosurvey points it will take to survey the bodies in the system.  This can help you figure out how many drones you'll need to survey the body.

Next, go to your individual ship or PDC menu.  Load the missile into the launcher, assign the launcher to a fire control and also assign the waypoint you made earlier to the same fire control.  Then press the Open Fire button.  If nothing happens in the next 5 seconds, go back to the ship/PDC menu and assign the fire control stuff again, and click Open Fire again.  The drone should go to the waypoint and keep up with the body, and it'll be surveying it.
 

Offline FancySanta

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 04:06:25 PM »
Quote from: Jackal Cry link=topic=5684. msg60337#msg60337 date=1361136854
*Snip*

Oh jeez.  I think I figured out what I was doing wrong.

I didn't know about the lack of survey point notification on the drones, which is one thing - or that using the show survey points option in the Display 2 menu only shows the max, not how many are left. . .

But the biggest problem I was having was forgetting to put the PDC silos on cease fire after the launches.  I was unknowingly getting stuck in 5 second turn increments that I wasn't noticing and nothing was getting done.  I just shut them down and waited a while and sure enough, Luna has been surveyed.

Boy, I feel dumb.   :-[
 

Offline Charlie Beeler

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Re: 6.0+ Missile/Drone/Buoy Design Questions
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2013, 05:10:45 PM »
Oh jeez.  I think I figured out what I was doing wrong.

I didn't know about the lack of survey point notification on the drones, which is one thing - or that using the show survey points option in the Display 2 menu only shows the max, not how many are left. . .

But the biggest problem I was having was forgetting to put the PDC silos on cease fire after the launches.  I was unknowingly getting stuck in 5 second turn increments that I wasn't noticing and nothing was getting done.  I just shut them down and waited a while and sure enough, Luna has been surveyed.

Boy, I feel dumb.   :-[
That doesn't solve the issue for you.  Survey Points relate to grav surveys not geo surveys.
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics - paraphrase attributed to Gen Omar Bradley