Weapon Choices

[Erik L (OP)]

This does not deal with Aurora or Starfire, hence the "Off Topic" forum location.

I'm designing a game. I've got two similar weapon systems. Particulars of each...

Missile Pack, range 30, damage 3, 50 ammo, Salvo 5, size 3, explosive.
Rocket Pod, range 20, damage 8, 20 ammo, Salvo 5, size 1, explosive, inaccurate.

(Explosive means it damages the target as a whole, rather than a specific location. Inaccurate is a -10% chance to hit)

Now, why would you pick one over the other?

To me, the missiles have range, but lack the punch of the rockets. If the full salvo hits, you've got 15 points, compared to 40. Missiles are slightly more accurate, so they'll have a better chance of landing a full salvo. I might increase this by making Missile Packs accurate also (+10% chance to hit).

Thoughts?


PS. In a few days, when I've got more written up, I'll post the info if anyone is interested. It is not a 4X game though.

[Randy]

Depending on manueverability and speeds involved, the range becomes more or less important. the more important range is (ie the more manueverable and faster ships are), the better the missiles get.

  Its just a matter of how many times will the missiles get to fire before the rockets get in range? How many times can each fire? What are the odds of a missile hit at the 21-30 range? At what point do they essentially have the same odds of hitting?

With the available information, I'd go with missiles simply because of the range advantage.

[Erik L (OP)]

Depending on manueverability and speeds involved, the range becomes more or less important. the more important range is (ie the more manueverable and faster ships are), the better the missiles get.

  Its just a matter of how many times will the missiles get to fire before the rockets get in range? How many times can each fire? What are the odds of a missile hit at the 21-30 range? At what point do they essentially have the same odds of hitting?

With the available information, I'd go with missiles simply because of the range advantage.

They can fire a salvo of 5 each turn.
At range 16-25 there is a -20% to hit.
At range 26+ there is a -30% to hit.

If you are firing at a smaller, faster target (one that will clear the 30-20 range in one turn), you've got an additional -30% to hit. If the target takes 3 turns to clear that range, you've got no penalty. Between those two extremes, there are -10% and -20% modifiers.

This also is not including ECM, ECCM, targeting aids or the like, nor the skill of the shooter.

So if you have a target that can clear the range in 2 turns (speed 5), you have a -40% on the first turn, and a -30% on the second. Round 3 (when rockets range) missiles have a -30% still, while rockets are at -40%.

Due to the inherent inaccuracy of the rocket pods, the best they could hope to attain is a stationary target under range 10, which still gives a -10% to hit, where the missiles would have a flat base chance at that point.

I've toyed with modifying the weapons this way.

Code: [Select]

Missile Pack, Range 30, Damage 5, Size 3, Salvo 3, Ammo 30, Explosive, Accurate
Rocket Pod, Range 20, Damage 2, Size 1, Salvo 10, Ammo 50, Explosive, Inaccurate

The only new term in there is Accurate (+10% to hit). Oh! I didn't specify Salvo either. Salvo means that each time it fires, it shoots a number of missiles/rockets equal to the salvo size (5 originally, 3 or 10 in the second). Depending on how well the to hit roll is, determines how many of the missiles/rockets hit.

[Father Tim]

I'm wondering about the size.  Can I actually mount three Rocket Pods (size 1) in place of a single Missile system?  If I can, I'm definitely going for the rockets in the first example.

In the second example, I want the missiles every time.  Longer ranged and more accurate, they might even average *more* damage per hit than the rockets due to the mechanics for determining the amount of each slavo that actually hits.

[Erik L (OP)]

With size, you can mount 3 rocket pods in the same space as the missiles.

I'm aiming to equalize them to the point where one does not get chosen over the other all the time, but not make them identical so that there is no reason other than name to pick one over the other.

I might increase the rockets to size 2.

[Þórgrímr]

With size, you can mount 3 rocket pods in the same space as the missiles.

I'm aiming to equalize them to the point where one does not get chosen over the other all the time, but not make them identical so that there is no reason other than name to pick one over the other.

I might increase the rockets to size 2.

Eric, I think that is a REAL bad way to design weaponry, with that design philosophy, why not just close your eyes and stab the design list and just put on the weapon your finger lands on?

Weapons are designed for a SPECIFIC task, and most often for a specific role, PD, LR, MR, SR. Think of the old sailing ships, the cannon had range over the Carronade, but could not do as much theoritical damage when they hit. So, for example, the English loved the Long gun combined with maneuverability while the US used the Carronade, in conjunction with maneuverability, for its damage potential and their confidence in their commanders ability to close to Carronade range.

So IMO, making weapons have no difference beyond name is really bad. They are the way they are for a reason.  



Cheers,

[Erik L (OP)]

[quote="

[Þórgrímr]

Lol, ok. But I think if you try to force equality in your weapons systems something is not going to be right. Say, for example, I like long range exclusively. All you are going to see is LR weaponry. So as a designer you may say, well something is wrong, all I ever see on those designs are LR weapons, and fudge it too far.

Let folks make their own decisions on what weapons they wish to use. Just offer them a wide variety to choose from.  




Cheers,

[Erik L (OP)]

True. But if you have just long range weapons and someone does get in close, wouldn't you prefer a weapon that didn't splash you with its effect?

Hmmm... I might have a new descriptor. Barrage - weapon may fire in indirect mode and cover the target hex, plus 2 adjacent hexes (determine randomly).

I think that will provide the effect I'm looking for on the rocket pods.

[Þórgrímr]

True. But if you have just long range weapons and someone does get in close, wouldn't you prefer a weapon that didn't splash you with its effect?

Hmmm... I might have a new descriptor. Barrage - weapon may fire in indirect mode and cover the target hex, plus 2 adjacent hexes (determine randomly).

I think that will provide the effect I'm looking for on the rocket pods.

Yup, but the point I am making is do not force the player to HAVE to pick certain weapons. Let them play the way they want to, even if they get their butts kicked doing it.    Freedom of chioce is always my motto.  



Cheers,

[Erik L (OP)]

If anyone is interested in seeing the full (and I use that term loosely) document, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy.

[Þórgrímr]

If anyone is interested in seeing the full (and I use that term loosely) document, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy.

Eric, you have my Email already, shoot me a copy, I would be interested in it.



Cheers,