Author Topic: Diplomacy Overhaul?  (Read 1995 times)

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Offline froggiest1982

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Diplomacy Overhaul?
« on: December 04, 2017, 03:37:45 PM »
Hi all,

I already posted more than a year (wow originally I wrote few months. . . time goes fast) ago on 7. 2 discussions and considering Aurora C# will be pretty much a 7. 2 if not an 8. 0 version I would like to submit my original request to the community along with Steve reply on the matter.

Hi Steve,
I follow you since 2010.   .   .   it was a long journey and I am glad seeing that now thanks to few unexpected let's play on youtube many are seeing the truth.    The truth is yours is a great game.   
I am excited seeing all the progress you have made so far and always keen on trying all the new balances/improvements you slowly add to the game.    I know very well what is behind all your choices because you told many times.    You do Aurora following your thoughts and how you like to play because first of all this is a hobby and you want this to remain a hobby.   
I have waited 6 years before trying to make a suggestion, just because I wanted to see where your free spirit would have guided us and this has paid off till now.   
Now that you are actually rewriting and adapting the code on a new platform could be good to have a sensible review on the diplomacy, but if something can be done on the 7.   2 version will be great anyway.    IMHO even if the game offers a lot of micromanagement it does lack in diplomacy options.    I like to play Aurora making up stories and Roleplaying with my heroes till the inevitable death and I would like to do so even while fighting our enemies.   
I know I am asking a lot, but the possibilities to make Federations, not only alliances; or some sort of cold war status where could happen to have a permanent war with border frictions not necessary causing an intergalactic war is always something in my mind while I play.    It is already a great game and I will survive even if it remains like that, but overhaul the diplomacy will be probably appreciated from the community.    The question now is: are you on the same page or you still thinking to keep this part on a side and remain focused on the core harpoon style game?
I know it is very reductive because yours is a much deeper title than harpoon; I was just trying to give my words an understandable meaning.

I agree that Diplomacy needs a major overhaul and it should be a lot easier to do in the C# version.  The concept of battles over certain systems rather than all-out war should be possible.

What do you guys think? And Steve if you there and already worked something out can you advise?


Offline MarcAFK

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  •'s so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 06:15:52 AM »
The AI should be capable of making demands "Give us this system and we'll end this damn war!" etc.
Aurora seems to have very simplistic diplomacy, but something like the old master of Orion might be useful. However designing a good AI for a game as complex as aurora would be a full time job. :p
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "

Offline froggiest1982

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Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 06:48:27 PM »
I think most of the coding for AI is already there same as the relations values between races.  The value could contain other small stages and allow for example a cold war between the neutral and the hostile phase.  Also, the relation factor could be changed taking into account (assuming it does not do that already) sharing systems and small skirmishes (if in cold war or neutral) in systems without installations.  Example:

We are in neutral relations with another race and we engage combat in a system without any colony, ours or theirs.  The multiplier could be like -10 and -10 each, but if we fight in a system where we have a colony could be -10 for us but -50 for them or the other way round if it's their colony.  Ultimately if both have colonies could be -50 -50 to both of us.

U could pretty much apply this to everything you want to make a matter of diplomacy.  Another example: if we colonize a system where there is already a colony of another race which is not allied with us can be a straight -1000 relations each year and so on till inevitable war or good diplomatic work from a team leading to an alliance, then the share of a colony could impact for a +500 per year. 

I honestly don't know if it is hard to code, but I believe the root of this concept might be already there considering how diplomacy is working now.  I think the challenge would be to balance the values, but since more people are now playing Aurora won't be hard for Steve to gain multiple feedbacks and adjust also following what he experience playing.

Offline Whitecold

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Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 05:47:11 AM »
I don't think a single number is appropriate for describing a diplomatic relationship. The actual balance of power between states should play a role, and liking/ideology should be differentiated from strategic necessities. The enemy of my enemy may be my ally, but that doesn't make him a friend.
A much deeper issue for diplomacy is that for any kind of agreement to see that it is balanced, the AI must not only evaluate its own priorities, but also guess the players priorities to decide how hard the AI can negotiate.

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 11:52:39 AM »
I haven't started with diplomacy yet but I do intend for it to be more detailed. There will be a lot more clarity from AI players about which systems they consider to be their territory and which are neutral space. They may change their mind about which systems to claim. There will also be warning messages and the potential for negotiated settlements, rather than fighting to the death.
The following users thanked this post: Arwyn, Lamandier, froggiest1982, MagusXIX, MarcAFK, Alfapiomega, misora, TheBawkHawk, Kawack

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 04:09:01 PM »
Ooh!  Will there finally be three decimal places of 'conqueredness' for occupied colonies, instead of 20-40-60-80-100% efficiency?

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 05:03:51 AM »
There should also be Spacemaster Diplomacy options.  So if the player decides there is a good RP reason for a particular treaty, they can customize something, even if the computer wouldn't come up with anything like it on their own.

Offline Person012345

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Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2017, 12:02:59 PM »
There should also be Spacemaster Diplomacy options.  So if the player decides there is a good RP reason for a particular treaty, they can customize something, even if the computer wouldn't come up with anything like it on their own.

This is already a thing though?

Offline Caplin

Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 07:02:10 PM »
May I just say that this is the kind of thing I'd love to see from NPRs? It would add to the already amazing role-playing potential of this game. I realize it will take time, but am eager to see how things look.


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