Author Topic: C# Ground Combat  (Read 1401 times)

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Offline sloanjh

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C# Ground Combat
« on: January 13, 2018, 09:25:34 AM »
Please put any further discussions about ground combat in C# Aurora here, rather than in the general discussion thread.
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2018, 12:18:51 PM »
@Steve Walmsley; quick question, but will the upgrades to ground force strength (if the old research options are being kept), allow for the ground units weapons/stats to increase/be upgraded, like one of your example Leman Russ designs being replaced with a Mk II? Also, are there any plans to introduce a heavy infantry unit, like an Astartes/Clan Elemental?

In all other respects, please keep it up. This is undoubtedly one of the few games I've been most excited for in my life.

IIRC, some of the heavier armor options for infantry are supposed to be powered armor. But the idea of a heavier powered infantry base unit type got me thinking something like a Battletech Elemental might be better handled as a light vehicle anyways; I mean, the biggest bonus of light vehicles is they're fast and hard to hit even without fortification (and gain very little from that fortification), which seems pretty appropriate. I was thinking I'd flavor my light vehicles as stuff like jeeps (only cooler and more space-y) but now I might just flavor them as heavy power armor. Something like Master Chief from Halo, or maybe the Adeptus Astartes? That's power armor I could see fitting as armored infantry. But something like an Elemental that can jump 30 feet and mounts an anti-tank missile pack probably fits better, mechanically, as a light vehicle.

On a semi-related note, once the ground combat mechanics get finalized (and if Steve is willing to provide the stats/possible equipment for each unit type), I was thinking about running a simulated design competition; let people come up with their own designs and then crunch the numbers to see who wins. Might be fun and keep this thread from turning into another argument about what is and isn't realistic in a sci-fi video game  ;D
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 05:03:09 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback on the proposed interactions between fighters and ground combat. I think I have now found a good way to make this work.

A new component, the Fighter Pod Bay, is similar in function to a small Box Launcher, except it will only hold Fighter Pods (see below).



Fighter pods are created on the Missile Design window. The various pod options, such as bombardment pod, autocannon pod and air-to air pod, will appear when the requisite technology has been researched. When one of those options is selected, the warhead strength field is replaced by a pod size field. The player can choose the pod size, with larger pods being more effective. The pod capabilities will be similar to the capabilities of equivalent-sized ground unit components, although the fighter pods have more flexibility in design. For example, a bombardment pod will have three shots, armour penetration equal to Racial Weapon Modifier * ((Tons / 20) ^ 0.6) and damage equal to Racial Weapon Modifier * ((Tons / 20) ^ 1.6).

Fighter pods are ordnance, in exactly the same way as missiles. They are built by ordnance factories, transported in magazines and loaded onto fighters. Unlike missiles, they are not expended when fired and will function during ground combat phases.





A fighter can be designed with fighter pod bays. Different pods can be assigned to those bays while the fighter is in a hangar, providing flexibility of loadout. The same fighter could be used for bombardment or autocannon pods, as long as the pods bays are large enough and the parent carrier has both types of pods available. The pods can be assigned to the fighter using the normal ordnance loadout.

Pods can also be assigned to normal box launchers, so a fighter designed for space combat can also be used for ground combat in an emergency. However, box launchers are three times larger than the missiles (or pods) they are designed to fire, while fighter pod bays are equivalent in size to the pods, making fighter pod bays are a much more efficient way to mount the pods. Because of this efficiency and no requirement for fire controls or sensors in ground combat missions, dedicated ground support fighters can be much smaller than their space combat equivalents. It is also possible to have hybrid designs mounting both pods and box launchers. Due to the requirement for smaller engines for dedicated ground support aircraft, ship engines can now be designed from 0.1 HS in size.



« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 07:32:52 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 06:58:27 PM »
Do fighter pods get a techlevel modifier? They'll probably need one because otherwise you get insane podsize requirements to pierce enemy armour as technology develops.

With the construction mechanics in play you could, in theory, design a ship with the smallest possible engine (5 tons) the smallest possible fuel tank (also 5 tons IIRC) and other supporting parts (probably less than 30 tons total) and 20 8 Missile Size Point equivalent fighter pods, which with bombardment pods would be the equivalent of 20 light bombardment units taking 60 guaranteed to hit and kill most small units.

It'd also be very easy to shoot down.
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 08:07:01 PM »
Hum... I'd say that's a good compromise. It's a hybrid system but not one where you need to hamstring space based fighters to make them usable in ground combat - they're just less efficient than dedicated ground support aircraft would be. That's a fair tradeoff.

It does ignore beam fighters for those that use them, but I suppose they can always just use orbital bombardment.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:37:56 PM by Bremen »
 

Offline Person012345

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 09:44:54 PM »
So, question, maybe this was answered elsewere and I just forgot, how will basing fighters at planets work now? Obviously they can't be based in PDC hangers and it would seem odd if you couldn't base atmospheric fighters on a planet at all (not to mention this would give an attacker a major advantage if having space dominance totally precludes the use of atmospheric fighter support for the defender).

Also forgive me if this question is stupid, I've never actually used fighters so far and am under the impression that right now if you want to base fighters at a planet then you use PDC hangers, if that's not how it works then my question is ignorant.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:48:36 PM by Person012345 »
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 09:48:54 PM »
So, question, maybe this was answered elsewere and I just forgot, how will basing fighters at planets work now? Obviously they can't be based in PDC hangers and it would seem odd if you couldn't base atmospheric fighters on a planet at all (not to mention this would give an attacker a major advantage if having space dominance totally precludes the use of atmospheric fighter support for the defender).

It did come up; as I recall the answer was that in C# Aurora maintenance facilities can maintain fighters. I do wonder if this means they can "hide" on the surface as ground units to avoid being targeted by missiles - though if so, that opens the question of if they keep using fuel while doing so.
 

Offline Person012345

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 11:04:06 PM »
It did come up; as I recall the answer was that in C# Aurora maintenance facilities can maintain fighters. I do wonder if this means they can "hide" on the surface as ground units to avoid being targeted by missiles - though if so, that opens the question of if they keep using fuel while doing so.
But can they reload them? Change their loadouts? And if maintenance facilities are based in space (which I assume they are) then they're just going to get blown up if the enemy has space dominance, as will the fighters themselves.
 

Offline Person012345

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 11:22:30 PM »
I don't know how feasible this is but I would just suggest a new building that could be built by factories or construction equipment that would provide a certain hanger capacity to a population. If one is destroyed then a proportionate amount of the fighters stationed there would also be destroyed. This would also allow for a gradual build up of ground-based fighter capacity by invaders to relieve the pressure on the supporting carriers over time, if they have the resources.
 

Offline ChildServices

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 11:59:01 PM »
How far up does the chain of command go now? Do we finally have four tiers to make use of all four army officer ranks?
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Offline BasileusMaximos

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 01:02:53 AM »
Are there going to be extra officer positions for ground forces like there are for ships? Will there be smaller and larger organization of ground forces available (companies, armies, etc).
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 07:33:39 AM »
Do fighter pods get a techlevel modifier? They'll probably need one because otherwise you get insane podsize requirements to pierce enemy armour as technology develops.

Yes, the pod ratings are modified by the racial weapon modifier in the same way as ground units. I've added that to the original post.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 07:34:54 AM »
So, question, maybe this was answered elsewere and I just forgot, how will basing fighters at planets work now? Obviously they can't be based in PDC hangers and it would seem odd if you couldn't base atmospheric fighters on a planet at all (not to mention this would give an attacker a major advantage if having space dominance totally precludes the use of atmospheric fighter support for the defender).

Also forgive me if this question is stupid, I've never actually used fighters so far and am under the impression that right now if you want to base fighters at a planet then you use PDC hangers, if that's not how it works then my question is ignorant.

You will be able to base fighters at planets using maintenance facilities. However, I may add some form of airbase as well.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 07:36:03 AM »
How far up does the chain of command go now? Do we finally have four tiers to make use of all four army officer ranks?

As far as you want. There are unlimited army ranks now and nine different HQ sizes.
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Ground Combat
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 07:37:06 AM »
Are there going to be extra officer positions for ground forces like there are for ships? Will there be smaller and larger organization of ground forces available (companies, armies, etc).

Yes, you can have any formation size you want, from company or platoon up to army or army group.
 

 

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