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Posted by: SteveAlt
« on: December 08, 2007, 07:14:36 AM »

Quote from: "ocie"
This page has a listing of most or all of the known shipyards, shipbuilders, shipbreakers and repair facilities that operate around the world. Many of these yards and businesses are the ones who build and service the modern vessels of today.

Thanks!

I have added this list to the database and added an auto-rename button to the Manage Shipyards tab. If you select a shipyard and hit auto-rename, one of thse names is selected. You can keep pressing auto-rename until you find one you like.

Steve
Posted by: ocie
« on: December 07, 2007, 04:23:15 PM »

THE SHIPYARDS
 


 
-=[ Shipyards Around The World ]=-
This page has a listing of most or all of the known shipyards, shipbuilders, shipbreakers and repair facilities that operate around the world. Many of these yards and businesses are the ones who build and service the modern vessels of today.

This database is owned & maintained by, and is Copyright
Posted by: kdstubbs
« on: October 20, 2007, 01:24:31 PM »

Steve,
    Glad to be of help


Kevin
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 17, 2007, 08:15:29 AM »

Quote from: "kdstubbs"
I enjoyed reading this post.  now for some historical perspectives.  One Caveat.  I am not an expert on shipbuilding.  But I have studied this somewhat for WWI.  During the 19 months of US participation in WWI, the US Government laid down 1000 slipways in multiple shipyards.  They were producing approximately 3 million gross deadweight tons of new ships by Nov 1918.  This laid the foundation for American production in the Interwar period and during world war II.  

The time needed to produce a new design for a new ship is usually done while the old design is still in production.  In the US we produce mini upgrades to existing designs through a process called preplanned product improvement.  The DDG-51 class Arleigh Burke Destroyers went through three block upgrades, the last added an entire helicopter deck and hangar to the Destroyer design, adding over twenty feet IIRC to the total ship length.  

when retooling a yard with multiple slipways, you begin retooling one of the slipways at a time while still manufacturing the older class in the remaining ways.  E.G., if you had four slipways, and assuming it took six months per slipway to retool, then over a two year period you would go from 4 DDG, to 3 old class, in the first six months, to 2 old, 1 new, 1 retooling, to 1 old, 2 new, 1 retooling, to 3 new and one retooling at 18 months. to 4 new at 24 months.  You get the picture.  

Thanks for this detail. I have built this concept into the new shipyard rules, which allow you to start getting ready for the next class while you are still building the existing one. This should result in a similar situation to above where some slipways are building the newer class while others are still working on the old one.

Steve
Posted by: Pete_Keller
« on: October 07, 2007, 05:45:56 PM »

My idea was similar to Kevin's except shutdown one slipway at a time to resize it larger, then keep building the original ships on it, once all were upgraded, then change to a larger hull design.

Pete
Posted by: kdstubbs
« on: October 07, 2007, 11:24:11 AM »

I enjoyed reading this post.  now for some historical perspectives.  One Caveat.  I am not an expert on shipbuilding.  But I have studied this somewhat for WWI.  During the 19 months of US participation in WWI, the US Government laid down 1000 slipways in multiple shipyards.  They were producing approximately 3 million gross deadweight tons of new ships by Nov 1918.  This laid the foundation for American production in the Interwar period and during world war II.  

The time needed to produce a new design for a new ship is usually done while the old design is still in production.  In the US we produce mini upgrades to existing designs through a process called preplanned product improvement.  The DDG-51 class Arleigh Burke Destroyers went through three block upgrades, the last added an entire helicopter deck and hangar to the Destroyer design, adding over twenty feet IIRC to the total ship length.  

when retooling a yard with multiple slipways, you begin retooling one of the slipways at a time while still manufacturing the older class in the remaining ways.  E.G., if you had four slipways, and assuming it took six months per slipway to retool, then over a two year period you would go from 4 DDG, to 3 old class, in the first six months, to 2 old, 1 new, 1 retooling, to 1 old, 2 new, 1 retooling, to 3 new and one retooling at 18 months. to 4 new at 24 months.  You get the picture.  

The older class can be upgraded to the new design or to a new block during a SLEP (service life extension program) dry docking period.  usually taking up to two years for a CVN and much less for a smaller warship.  So the idea of an assembly line producing a standard freighter hull makes sense.  Block upgrades could be done every five or ten years to keep the fleet modernized, etc.  

Steve, you will have a lot of fun coding slipways into 2.3

Hope this helps

Kevin
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 07, 2007, 09:39:19 AM »

Quote from: "Brian"
I like pete's suggestion as well.

A seperate question for dealing with slipways.  In real life a crash project would grab extra people to get the job done faster.  How about allowing extra slipways to add a bonus to the production speed of the ship under construction.  Say around 20% with a max of doubling the rate of construction.  For each extra slipway however add 40% to the monetary cost and a lesser (say 5% or 10%) to the mineral cost.  The extra money covers all the overtime and the minerals cover the extra wear and tear on equipment, and the inventible wastage that occurs with a crash project.

Some type of crash construction project is a definite possibility. However, I will probably get the basic system working first and then look at this type of extra functionality.

Steve
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 07, 2007, 09:37:50 AM »

Quote from: "sloanjh"
I like Pete's suggestion too, but I think the capacity modularity needs to be at the SY (not slipways (SW)) level, and should be small granularity (in tonnage) like your recent change to MF (i.e. much more granular than 5000 tons - maybe the 50 ton level (1HS) ?).  Since all SW associated with a SY build the same thing, it both doesn't make any sense and is much harder to track if different SW have different capacity.

Note that this means that SY upgrade/build/retooling costs would vary: increasing capacity would depend on the number of SW, adding a SW would depend on the capacity, and retooling would depend on both.
Yes, I realised that this might get a little complicated. I agree that having all slipways the same size would be a good idea. If a shipyard has three slipways and wants to increase slipway size by 200 tons, it will have to pay for 600 tons so that all three increase equally. If a new shipway is to be added, it will have to be added at the same size as the existing ones. Retooling will depend on the overall capacity of all slipways.

Quote
Questions:  If I've got a SY with 10 SW and capacity C will there be a build command to "split" the facility by building a new SY with capacity C and assigning some of the SW to the new yard, i.e. one SY with 6 SW and the other with 4 after the build?  Will there be a command to drop capacity of a SY complex (to make it cheaper to add SW)?

Probably not for a first cut but this is the type of detail I would add later.

Steve
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 07, 2007, 09:33:39 AM »

Quote from: "Pete_Keller"
I think that the slipways should be "modular" like the maintenance facilities are now.

You can start out with slipways that build 5000ton ships, then expand them later to build larger ships.

That way the shipyard/slipways to build a superdreadnaught will cost more than a small one to build frigates.  And it allows a colony to build "system patrol vessels" using a small shipyard and slipway without having the ability to build the above mentioned superdreadnaught.

I agree with the modular idea but the granularity will have to be much smaller than 5000 tons. One of my design goals with Aurora is to have ships of many different sizes, rather than the everyone has 30HS destroyers situation in Starfire. To this end I am trying to avoid anything that pushes players of all races into designing ships of a certain size. In this case, everyone would start building 5000 ton ships. Perhaps the best thing would be to buld a shipyard for half the current cost then have a modular slipway with a granularity of maybe 200 tons, the same as maintenance facilities. The shipyard itself will be useless until its slipways are built.

Steve
Posted by: Pete_Keller
« on: October 06, 2007, 06:57:59 AM »

OK, after sleeping on it overnight, here are some ideas.

Quote from: "Pete_Keller"
I think that both the shipyard and the slipway should be granular.  You cannot build higher than the lowest of both of them, and the total hull spaces of units in the shipyard cannot exceed the shipyard's total.
 

Granularity should be around 10HS not 1 HS, 1HS makes it too fiddly.

Quote from: "Pete_Keller"
My only problem with this whole idea the Electric Boat Shipyard.  During the early 1980s, it was building Los Angeles class subs(~6900 Tons), Ohio class subs (~18800 Tons) and refitting Sturgeon class subs (~4800 Tons).  One Shipyard, with 2 slipways, and a pair of drydocks.

Pete


We should split the current shipyard into 3 separate items.

Shipyards are the main area, that is where the "industrial work" gets done.

Slipways are primarily designed to build new ships, but they can overhaul, repair, and refit ships at a penalty (25% maybe).  I added overhaul in the list for forward bases.  I have a shipyard with a slipway, but no maintenance facility (possibly due to combat damage) and this way you could overhaul a ship using the old method.

Drydocks (or spacedocks) are the third item.  They allow overhaul, repair, and refits at normal cost, but building ships is at a penalty (again maybe 25%)

One of the reasons I suggest this is the US Navy during WWII Pacific campaigns had "Destroyer tenders" and "Floating Drydocks" forward deployed to fix battle damage.

The drydocks were modular, like we were talking about.

We then could then add 2 "ship items" called "Tender" and "Drydock"

Tenders allow repairs of battle damage like Damage Control without using up replacement parts.  You could also be alongside and perform a minor refit to replace the replacement parts.

Drydock or "mobile spacedock" would allow quicker repairs of battle damage and quicker minor refits. (replace the replacement parts at double speed maybe).  drydocks are large, and cannot be mounted on a ship with engines.  You MUST tow them.  Which forces you to develop a tug.

Pete
Posted by: Pete_Keller
« on: October 05, 2007, 10:52:51 PM »

I think that both the shipyard and the slipway should be granular.  You cannot build higher than the lowest of both of them, and the total hull spaces of units in the shipyard cannot exceed the shipyard's total.  

This allows for battle damage as well as upgrades.  I upgrade the shipyard to have more capacity, I then upgrade my slipways one at a time as they become available.  Once they are all upgraded (or mostly) then you can switch over to another hull class.

My only problem with this whole idea the Electric Boat Shipyard.  During the early 1980s, it was building Los Angeles class subs(~6900 Tons), Ohio class subs (~18800 Tons) and refitting Sturgeon class subs (~4800 Tons).  One Shipyard, with 2 slipways, and a pair of drydocks.

Pete
Posted by: sloanjh
« on: October 05, 2007, 08:16:57 PM »

I like Pete's suggestion too, but I think the capacity modularity needs to be at the SY (not slipways (SW)) level, and should be small granularity (in tonnage) like your recent change to MF (i.e. much more granular than 5000 tons - maybe the 50 ton level (1HS) ?).  Since all SW associated with a SY build the same thing, it both doesn't make any sense and is much harder to track if different SW have different capacity.

Note that this means that SY upgrade/build/retooling costs would vary: increasing capacity would depend on the number of SW, adding a SW would depend on the capacity, and retooling would depend on both.

I also like Brian's suggestion about rush jobs.

Questions:  If I've got a SY with 10 SW and capacity C will there be a build command to "split" the facility by building a new SY with capacity C and assigning some of the SW to the new yard, i.e. one SY with 6 SW and the other with 4 after the build?  Will there be a command to drop capacity of a SY complex (to make it cheaper to add SW)?

John
Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: October 05, 2007, 04:55:00 PM »

I like pete's suggestion as well.

A seperate question for dealing with slipways.  In real life a crash project would grab extra people to get the job done faster.  How about allowing extra slipways to add a bonus to the production speed of the ship under construction.  Say around 20% with a max of doubling the rate of construction.  For each extra slipway however add 40% to the monetary cost and a lesser (say 5% or 10%) to the mineral cost.  The extra money covers all the overtime and the minerals cover the extra wear and tear on equipment, and the inventible wastage that occurs with a crash project.

Brian
Posted by: wildfire142
« on: October 05, 2007, 03:34:14 PM »

I also like Pete's suggestion.
Posted by: Þórgrímr
« on: October 05, 2007, 02:06:39 PM »

I like Pete's suggestion myself and back it.  :D




Cheers,