General Purpose Size 1 Missle

[Tyrius (OP)]

  So I am busy trying to design a size one missile.   .   .     Problem is I don't want to use it for just AMM purposes, i also want to be able to sandblast ships with huge volleys of them.    (edit: Noticed that it was for speed's not ranges on the accuracy lol appended question) I was wondering if this could prove effective or not?  Any experiences with this sort of idea?

[Jacob/Lee]

You could dedicate more of the missile to the engine, that's all I can think of.

I'm not entirely sure if it's even POSSIBLE to create an AMM and ASM at the same time...

[sloanjh]

I'm not entirely sure if it's even POSSIBLE to create an AMM and ASM at the same time...

Sure it is - a size-1 missile is a size-1 missile.

That being said, I usually have 2 size-1 designs: 1 with a str-1 warhead (for typical AMM work), and a "deer slug" design with a heavier warhead that will function as an ASM round.  The two missiles are optimized for their respective roles, but each can be used in the other role as necessary.  The AMM version is usually faster, but shorter range (I still keep a range in 10's of MKm, however, since the fuel required is minimal).

John

[Jacob/Lee]

My point being a size 1 missile is godawful when it comes to destroying ships, so awful that I would never consider using it.

[Erik L]

My point being a size 1 missile is godawful when it comes to destroying ships, so awful that I would never consider using it.

AMM may not be shipkillers in yield, but they are a pain to counter. The AI AMM are going as fast, if not faster than your AMM reducing the intercept chance.

[Panopticon]

With a high enough tech it is certainly feasible to design 2-4 strength size 1 missile while at the same time keeping the speed and accuracy of an AMM, without the full range of an ASM though it would be pretty limited. Call it a Close Assault Missile and use it for jump point assaults or on small craft maybe.

[Peter Rhodan]

My AMMs have a range of 35mk and are about to go out to 50 or 60k at 60K speed or more
I frequently use them in an ASM role - often because I have run out of larger missiles - or as screen for the the larger ASMs coming in a few k behind
Another use is against damaged ships you want to damage more but not actually destroy so you can board and capture them - AMMs are very useful for whittling them down without blowing them up.
And as an ASM - bear in mind that a division of 6 of my AMM corvettes will fire off 36 AMMs every 10 seconds - so in 50 seconds that is 180 damage - my ASM corvettes with the 6 damage long range ASM missile will do 144 damage in the same time. Of course their's will be in one salvo which is a major advantage but 1 damage AMMs do have a useful place in ASM warfare

[sloanjh]

*SNIP*
And as an ASM - bear in mind that a division of 6 of my AMM corvettes will fire off 36 AMMs every 10 seconds - so in 50 seconds that is 180 damage - my ASM corvettes with the 6 damage long range ASM missile will do 144 damage in the same time. Of course their's will be in one salvo which is a major advantage but 1 damage AMMs do have a useful place in ASM warfare

Exactly.

I have a (several, actually) long post somewhere in the deep dark past which points out that, since both launcher size and RoF scale with missile size (giving a quadratic benefit), and since multiplying all the components of a (non-armored, non-sensing) missile by 10x will keep exactly the same performance stats and increase the damage by 10x (i.e. missiles scale exactly), and since 10xSize-1 missiles are 10x as many anti-missile fire targets as 1xSize-10 missile, size-1 missiles are actually the most effective choice for sand-blasting, in terms of damage pts/second.  This is essentially because the throw weight (in terms of warhead damage points) is the same for a fixed mass of launchers (independent of missile size), but the RoF is inversely proportional to the missile size.

The advantages of bigger missiles are: Penetration depth once the target armor starts to get thin, missile armor (which is the reason for having heavier warheads in my AMM mix), and missile sensors.  I've often considered playing a race with a size-1-only design philosophy, but have yet to do so....

John

[jseah]

Not to mention that having only one type of missile helps massively in missile logistics. 

[Erik L]

Not to mention that having only one type of missile helps massively in missile logistics. 

I'd still design at least two missile types; a size 1 AMM with a WH1, and size 1 ASM with bigger warhead.

[Brian Neumann]

I almost always have two size 1 missile designs.  One with a range of around 10mkm and a size 1 warhead with the best speed/agility for the amm role.  The second will have a range in the 30-50mkm a larger warhead and almost just enough agility to get a 100% hit rate against a typical fac/fighter speed.  At lower techs the warhead tends to only be 2 points while once I have the x10 warhead strength researched it tends to be a size 4 warhead.

Brian

[sloanjh]

I almost always have two size 1 missile designs.  One with a range of around 10mkm and a size 1 warhead with the best speed/agility for the amm role.  The second will have a range in the 30-50mkm a larger warhead and almost just enough agility to get a 100% hit rate against a typical fac/fighter speed.  At lower techs the warhead tends to only be 2 points while once I have the x10 warhead strength researched it tends to be a size 4 warhead.

Ditto.  And I also make sure that my AMM frigates (with size-1 launchers) have a longer-range, higher resolution fire-control (e.g. 16 or 20) that lets them take on the ASM frigate role.

Unfortunately, the mass penalty of extra fire control on FAC/Fighter is such that I haven't figured out how to make them dual-role (yet).

John

[Brian Neumann]

Unfortunately, the mass penalty of extra fire control on FAC/Fighter is such that I haven't figured out how to make them dual-role (yet).

John

For a fighter the mass is just prohibitative, for a FAC you can get away with 1 fire control (fc) with a resolution of 200+.  This will be small enough to fit in.  I can usually get away with 1/2 hull space fc and a 2-3 space fc for anti-missile work.  Also as of the last couple of updates the fire control needed for effective anti-missile work is usually long enough ranged for shooting at fighters/fac/ship targets.  If my fc can target a missile at 2mkm then it can target anything manned at around 20mkm. 

Brian